Cost of maintaining a modern Ferrari
 

Interesting thread

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=133725

a 5000k service at $1,500 or $4,000??? Either one is ridiculous.... not to mention brakes, belt service, valve adjustment and god forbid a clutch...typically not included.

$1500 for 5K doesn't sound so bad to me. Five thousand miles in an F430 sound like they would be a heck of allot more fun than the same in a PCAR.

$4,000 was the major service which is probably 15K Miles? And that doesn't sound too bad either considering the car is everyones dream.
There is a factory warranty as well so before you hit any real mileage just keep trading up! :D

think about it how many people here and on the 911 boards sign up to "eat" more than $30,000 of depreciation on their Pcars in a four year period.
If you are going to be "o.k." with that then coughing up $4,000-$6,000 for operation a prancing horse doesn't seem so outrageous to me.

the non-track driving Ferrari owners I know say the improvement in reliability in the last 7 years is truly amazing. I guess all those F1 dollars are indeed trickling down to the road cars.

I hear ya, but doesn't the story change if you drive your car every day?

I recognize that not all Pcar owners do, but I always thought of our cars as high-end production DDs while a Ferrari is more of an exotic for weekend and track activities. What is going to happen to your maintenance costs if you put 15k miles per year on the clock of the Ferrari fighting traffic?

I think we are talking about apples and oranges here.

I know there are plenty of people who only drive 911s on Sunday and treat them like they are priceless artifacts, but that doesn't put the car in the same league as a Ferrari for ownership comparative purposes. I also know guys who do the same thing with Mustangs.

very true.
If I could drive a Ferrari every day to the Starbucks and Costco boy that would be something! And if I could afford to do so I would in a heart beat.

But generaly speaking I think most Pcar owners do not drive their cars every day.
of course I have absolutely no data to back this up.
Assuming I'm correct most Pcar owners and Porsche owner are still not in the same ball park because Ferraris are usually sold to second and third owners with very very low miles. But so are tons of Porsches.

If this is going to be just a toy you sell every two years I don't think I see a heck of big difference between owning a $90K Porsche or a modern Ferrari.
Both are money pits just one gets 1000% more excitement from the driver and onlookers.

See it's crap like that that will allow me to talk myself into buying a Ferrari! ;) Maybe I should give up on the Box and buy an Accord for M-Thurs and a Testarossa for Fri-Sun. My wife will love this idea...

do it!! just tell your wife Perfectlap said it was ok.

here's a cream puff. All you have to do is take out a 2nd mortgage on the house, no biggie. Any RATIONAL and SYMPATHETIC woman would totally agree.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2005-Ferrari-F430-Coupe-F1-Loaded-L-K_W0QQitemZ110072268193QQihZ001QQcategoryZ6212QQrd Z1QQcmdZViewItem

yikes these things are expensive! $500 a mile???

assuming that F1 F430 sells for $200K and you financed it over SEVEN years your monthly payments would be a mere $2400 a month.
Which makes the $1500 5K service bill all that more of a bargain. Peanuts...

Nice! There is even a button that says "get low monthly payments."

This whole thing only convinces me that a 2nd hand 911 Turbo really is an amazing bargain. You can park that thing next to any Ferrari (well maybe not the Enzo) and no one would laugh at you. And at the track no one is going to laugh at you lap times either.

These Porsche dudes in Germany may be real arrogant SOB's but they know what they are doing and have the numbers to back it up.

I have been working under the assumption I will pull the trigger on a 911 in a couple of years but a used ferrari has to be a consideration. Those maintenance costs don't seem that horrible to me. My Boxster is not a daily driver and my next sports car won't be either.

Like I mentioned in the earlier post a mid 90's F355 can be had for $70-$80k. Can't even get into a well optioned 911 for that (new). Even most used 997's are over that range. Something to consider.

911 or F355? Hmmm

Guys, a typical clutch is in the $7000 range. So no burn outs OK?

The craziest cost that I have seen, and seems to be substantiated is the cost to replace the auto transmission in a 456 GTA.

The transmission is about $75,000. That's right, $75 biggies, more than half the price of the cars currently. ($60k for the part, 15k for labor.)

And the crazy part is it apparently is some variation of a GM transmission.

http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?p=136023992#post136023992

Ok, Perfectlap, you got me thinkin' ;)

I found 4 1995 F355 Berlinetta's ( 380 hp ) and 3 1995 348 Spider's ( 300 hp ) on AutoTrader with 18k ( low ) to 44k ( high ) miles all for under $60k !

I love my Boxster, and it is my primary daily driver, but I have to wonder if those that have a new 987S as a weekend "toy" ever considered a used Ferrari as an option ?

I know if I had $60k to throw at a car ( hopefully in 4 more years :p ) I sure as hell would !

Nick

Roughly what we pay

F355 (non spyder) 38000KM - AUS$160,000 (US$120K)


911 (997 Carrera Coupe) 5000KM - AUS$214,000 (US$160K)


Hard to pick :confused: :D

I know a guy who buys his cars(Porsches and Ferraris) after they have had major maintainence done and sell them before the next major service interval is due just because of the cost.

Interesting thread.

You guys should read a book called, "Collecting Ferrari" by Kieth Martin. It is basically a compilation of articles regarding the joys and perils of owning a Ferrari, all years and models.

After careful consideration (IMHO), anything older than say a 355 is a huge risk. For example, a Testarossa from the late 80's, where they have to actually pull the engine out to do a major service, that will cost $7500. That's insane. :eek: Plus from a performance perspective, you can get a used 911 Trubo from early 2000's that will eat the Testarossa alive in the performance department.

If I were buying a Ferrari, and some day I might, I want the performance AND the wow factor. I think I'll wait till the 360 modenas come down in price. They're still in the 120K to 160K range depending on mileage, etc.

Anyway, I'm glad I found this site and can engage in these types of discussions with car dudes :D

I wonder if this is true? My Box is a daily driver and I don't know why other people don't use there car as a daily driver (except for the obvious fact of kids, etc). It gets great gas mileage, is comfortable, looks good and is fun to drive. I don't care about racking up the mileage because I bought the car to drive...not to sit in the garage trying to "protect" my investment (worst investment in the world).

My rule for any car I will buy is it has to be a daily driver.

I only drive for leisure and on weekends so can't speak for people who have to drive to work during the week, but I can see how one could have a different car for a different purpose and conditions. There are plenty of congested metro areas with bad roads, hellish commutes in stop-and-go traffic. I don't think it's a matter of mileage or wear and tear, it just plain doesn't make sense to be driving a high-performance roadster (with a stick shift, no less) in such conditions. Moreover, it makes sense to associate the roadster with fun and joy (like a twisty road on a weekend) and disassociate it from stress, congestion, and hurry. It's a different feeling when you sit in your joy car for your joy ride, and not in the same seat in which you cursed and sweated just yesterday while stuck in traffic on your way home from work.

So I don't think this is a matter of some people being obsessively concerned about their cars, while others (daily drivers) not. My guess is that if most people here lived in an idylic country setting, driving to work on beautiful, uncongested, country roads, they would indeed use their roadsters as daily drivers.

Finally, why ever impose such "image" rules on yourself?

Z.

Yep, I'm with you. This car is performance art, not sculpture.

I understand what you are saying, but the other side of it is, when I have a long and stressful day at work at a client location, often the best part of my day is that commute in my Boxster. I am always looking for twisty backroads that, although may lengthen my trip to and from work, I can fit some “me” time in there during an otherwise potentially boring task of commuting. I can’t count how many nights I have shuffled out of an office building completely drained, only to have a big smile put on my face when I see my car.

When I first got the Box, I kept another car for DD purposes – nice car, an Acura CL Type S, but every day when I was driving it, I wished I was in the Porsche. So I wound up just selling it.

I hear you about the inner-city driving. I certainly don’t live in an idyllic country setting, but if I have to go to Manhattan, I take the train, but otherwise, Jersey, upstate New York, Long Island, I’m taking my car, and I am enjoying it – every day.

_______________________________
Well spoken. Here here!! Another reason why we didnt "box" the Boxster up for winter here. Drove it 80 miles yesterday. No snow for the past few weeks. Had the top down in 40 degree weather last week. :dance:

Glad we're in agreement. That was exactly my point. To the extent that the conditions allow for that big smile, the Box should be used as often as possible. Not everyone has the option to take the "twisty backroads" on their way from work.

Z.

I couldn't agree more. I bought my Boxster to drive it, not to sit and look at it in my garage. It is my only car and I drive it everyday. I'll soon have a back up car for the days when Chicago weather isn't at it's best, though.

I know many of the Pcar owners here in Naperville drive their's on a daily basis. At the train station I see a yellow late model Carrera and a black mid-90's 911 everyday in the parking lot.

from the reading their forum they seem to be of the opine that there is a BIG leap in reliability from the 348/355 to the 360/430. Night and day it seems.

I can't help but think about how this falls in line with the results from their racing programs.

in the mid 90's when the 348's and 355 were sold, Ferrari racing really was nowhere. Both F1 and sports cars. As we crossed over to the new milenium when the 360's and now 430's were up for sale the motorsports division began dumping unprecedented levels of spending en route to winning all these titles in F1 and this year the 430's were the class of the field in sports cars, well at least sprint races. FIA GT is going to an all sprint race schedule next year with the exception of LeMans so it will be interesting in Porsche vs. Ferrari.
Porsche still have a big advantage in endurance racing due to bullet proof racing engines in races lasting more than two hours.

anyhoo it sounds like going with the mid 90's 355 will cost you allot more money to maintain than a second hand 360. The 430 is still outrageously expensive to get into.

Some of us have good reason not to drive the car daily, and it's not so the car can be a 'garage queen'

My boxster is our third car and I drop off the kids at school every morning then park at a train station. Kids don't fit in the boxster, and I don't really want to leave it at the train station. Not to mention the Touareg is a more comfortable ride for commuting purposes in traffic.

Also, to the point made earlier, since I'm not commuting in the car I really enjoy the moments I have to drive it - no destination, just a great way to unwind.

Personally, I drive mine every day there isn't snow on the road. Sure there are days stuck in traffic when I wish I had an automatic, but most days I can't wait to jump in for my commute home. No twisties or anything - just enjoying the car. It's why I bought it. As to those who use it for weekends or occasions - good for you. That's probably why YOU bought it.

Now, as to the 355. I'm certainly no expert, but I've seen quoted 0-60 times of around 5.3 seconds. Nice car, and it's a Ferrari, but it'd get it's clocked cleaned by a 2006 Boxster S. So, in the end you'd just be paying for prestige. Now the 360 is a whole 'nother story....

It's not the cost of the car, it's the cost of the maintenance that freaks out most Ferrari newbies.

As stated, the 30,000 mile service on a 1984-91 Testarossa is an engine-out service that typically costs around $7,000 from an independent mechanic. The biggest problem is replacing the cam belts which are located on the front of the engine, but for almost everyone the "while I have the engine out" syndrome kicks in, so you end up rebuilding the water pump, clutch, etc. It's not unusual for the major service to surpass $10,000

BTW, the 30,000 mile service is actually 3 years / 30K miles - whichever comes first. A TR with 50,000 miles is considered a high mileage car.

....and 355 maintenance prices are similar.

Hmm, maybe the best bet is to go with a Panoz - there is nothing like the cost of maintaining Ford parts. You could do your maintenance at Pep Boys. :rolleyes:

Just buy a mustang and save yourself some coin...

GUYS!!!


PLEASE don't tell me you are actually considering buying one of these heaps?

If so you have obviously never read: "UroTrash's Guide to Not Buying a Ferrari"

Here:

http://www.ferrarichat.com/velostrada/issues/200505/Analysis%20Paralysis.pdf


Or if that doesn't work, here, last article on the page:

http://www.ferrarichat.com/velostrada/issues/200505/contents.htm

I definitely think the F430 convertible is the bee's knees, but is anyone else as excited about the new Aston Martin V8 Vantage Roadster as I am? For 120-125k (anticipated price) I think it's much more realistic (for most at least) than a Ferrari that costs 2-3x as much.

In the looks department only it is too close to looking S2000ish or BMWish to me..just my opinion...

To me, there's no better looking car than Ferrari 430 and 360. Aston Martin comes after those. The bang/$ scale gets more non-linear and distorted the closer you get to the top of your personal list. Up there, it's all emotion and very little reason.

You make an interesting point by aligning Ferrari's more recent success in racing programs with the more reasonable maintenance and reliability of newer models, 360 Modena and beyond. I have a friend at work who knows allot more about cars than I do, that said something very similar. He pointed out that, " It's only been very recently that Ferarri got their act together again." He was pointing to the Formula 1 success with Schumacher, of course, and the fact that only the newer Ferrari's give you supercar performance with the supercar price (My example again of the Testarossa comes to mind, as does the example of the Tom Selleck 308 that does 0-60 in like 7 seconds; that's a true piece of garbage in my opinion. :rolleyes: That being said, this gentleman is such a car nut that his stock E55 AMG wasn't fast enough, so he did a chip, an exhaust, and some other mods that cost him 10's of thousans and pushed the car over 600 HP.

The "road back" for Ferrari is more than a decade long, I recall an interview with Luca Montemozolo(Sp?) who is retiring as the Ferrari chief and possibly pursuing politics. Luca said that when he first started spear heading the revival of the company in the early 90's he noticed that the quality control department(the guys that fixed the assembly line errors) at the Ferrari factory was almost a big at the production area itself! I think he said they brought in the Japanese like the Porsche dudes did and quickly identified the weak spots. No doubt this thinking carried over to the motorsports teams resulting in some of the near bullet proof cars they have competed with since about 2000-2001. Now Renault seems to be doing similar. But Ferrari really stands alone in the amounts of money spend on racing. Nearly half of all their 05 REVENUES not earnings, went into those two little F1 cars, half a BILLION dollars. I can't think of another car builder that puts out this type of committment. Ford pulled the plug on many of Jaguar racing teams because they spent more trying to catch up with Luca then they did in all of their global motorsports combined. Better stick to NASCAR they figured. Cheap thrills for lots of sponsor dollars, but no big improvement in the road cars like Ferrari.

anyhoo... Who would have ever thought that the French and Italians would be showing the way to Japanese and Brits.
THe 2007 FIA GT races are going to be big for Porsche this season. I don't think they can afford to get drilled again in Europe and get spanked by the Z06's here in the U.S.
Racing cred is important if you expect to sell sports cars with a long term view.
Otherwise you're just selling heavy, very expensive pretty GT's.

________________
according to the Porsche website the 911s need only be serviced at intervals of 20k. Isnt that a hell of a lot less expensive than the Ferraris?

Bro, I am counting down the days until I see the first used ones roll into the showroom. Aston Martin IS my dream car.

I hear you on this. I bought my '01 Box with 11K miles on it this past summer, and wanted a Tip particularly so that it didn't become a weekend car for me (I have arthritis in my knees). Although I kept my other car (a pristine '01 IS300) out all summer, I can count on my two hands the number of times I used it. This coming summer, I will put the IS away and use the Box as a DD.

It's difficult sometimes to accept the wear and tear on it - it's Lapis Blue and shows scratches easily, and the interior tends to get a little beat if you are getting in and out regularly - but at least I am "getting my money's worth" and enjoyment out of the car!!! :D

I would be surprised that people able of owning a FERRARI are concerned about how much their oil change is going to cost them, that's more of a BOXSTER owner dilemma. :eek: That explains some comments here :p

Jealousy invites misery so if u can't afford a Ferrari go get a Ford or some derivative of that and join a Fix Or Repair Daily Forum :D

Happy New Year To All U Guys and Your Families :cheers:

Sir,

I think you have missed the point of much of the dialogue. Just because someone can "afford" a Ferrari (afford of course is a relative term), doesn't mean they should be happy with spending thousands of dollars on services, that are a high percentage of the overall cost of the car. It also doesn't mean they should go into buying a Ferrari uneducated, that is, thinking it is a highly reliable car. Clearly, some cars are, but many are not, especially cars from the 70's and 80's.

I guess what I'm trying to say is jealousy really has nothing to do with some of the analytic comments made here. Ferraris are great cars on many levels, but frankly I'm glad I became educated on their pros and cons and never bought one. Maybe some day :D

Have a good one.

Not sure you can compare a new Boxster to a used 355. More than just the daily driver use the Boxster can get, there's a serious power deficiency that the Boxster will always have due to Porsche's market goals. Seems like it's always going to be the autocross favorite over a real performance car because of it.

BTW, I happened by a PCar specialist in Santa Monica called Foreign Sport. Along with fixing my CV boots (and doing a darn good job of it too), I noted they had a whole collection of Ferrari 355s and a 360 in the shop. Common malfunction? Electrical system gremlins. I guess wiring is something Ferrari's limited production run has a hard time fully bulletproofing.

-David