How serious is this and what is cost to fix?

[97gtaboxter]

From the mechanic

"Engine running valves indicate excessive camshaft deviation bank 4/6. 18 degrees."

[The Radium King]

most likely failed variocam solenoid. to confirm drain the oil and look for green rubber bits that look like this:



work can be done with engine in car, but mechanic will most likely want to drop engine. lots of 'while you are in there' work to do - updated tensioners, chain tensioner pads, chains. do you want to fix both sides or just the side that failed, etc.

[theiceman]

okay i don't understand this .. i m no saying i disagree, i just don't understand it .. This solenoid only activates at a certain RPM does it not ? the advance ( and therefore this solenoid) does not even come into play at idle when the cam advance is measured. .. So if the timing is off , why is this component suspect ? is it because it comes out and jams and gets stuck out ??

I would be more suspicious of the plastic chain ramp broken that attaches to this tensioner if deviation at idle is suddenly off that much.

What ere the symptoms ? why did you take it in ?

[The Radium King]

well, he has the exact same symptoms as me (mine went to 16 iirc) and that is a pic of my solenoid. from what i could determine the solenoid retracts when activated so at idle it should be extended (but isn't when it fails).

regardless the test is the same - drain oil and look for debris. if debris is the ramps then it will be hard brown plastic in the sump. having said that i'd suggest that ramps failing to the point that deviation went to 16 would mean chains running on metal which would present as a whole lot of sound and fury.

also, if your mechanic has a porsche system tester he can do driveline actuations wihich include testing the actuators..

[97gtaboxter]

I brought the car in to get a oil change and general diagnostic. I have felt some lag in performance as well. He is a Porsche mechanic so has all the testers. Just curious if anyone has had same issue and if this is an expensive fix. Some more notes that may help. I am sure engine will have to come out. If this is the case I have even though about replacing the engine with a higher performing one. I have read 996 and Audi engines can work. I could be getting ahead of myself.


Engine noise close to oil scavange pump bank 1/3.
Oil Leaks bank 4/6. Possibly spark plug tubes. More likely AOS vent connection top of cylinder head. Oil filler tube a bit damp Slight oil weepage close to rear crank seal an/or ims seal.

[The Radium King]

you should have got a check engine light as soon as your deviation went past 9 degrees.

[Marc_986]

Originally Posted by 97gtaboxter

If this is the case I have even though about replacing the engine with a higher performing one. I have read 996 and Audi engines can work. I could be getting ahead of myself.

I think you are getting ahead of yourself indeed. Many reasons to choose another engine, but money and effort are a very different factor in that case. So unless you are prepared to do it yourself and take a year (assume Porsche engine) or two (Audi engine) I think it makes much more sense to fix your current engine.

[mikefocke]

in the mechanics shop and sitting around in partial rebuild status? If the mechanic is truly experienced in flat-6 internals, he could have told you all these answers.

It sounds like it is time for a top end rebuild based on all the symptoms of the many problems. . Pull the engine, pull the heads and get them rebuilt. While it is out, redo all the timing chains, AOS, IMS/RMS, water pump and hoses as they are truly old and just removing them is going to be a damaging.

[The Radium King]

well, the oil sounds like rms, spark plug tubes, oil fill tube as noted. perhaps retorque sump fasteners. replace oil fill tube - often cracks. engine noise is most likely ticking lifters (is it a tick?) which is a live with it noise. iif it's a chirp it might be loose spark plugs which would get addressed when you did the tubes. nothing terminal, nothing that requires engine out. do rms and ims if time to do clutch (ie when transmission is off). standard maintenance stuff.

solenoids (or ramps) require that the valve covers come off which requires locking the cams in place to mainntain timing. if he's a porsche tech he should have the tools for this. it is tight but can be done with engine in car (mine was).

however, if you didn't have a check engine light then something is off - perhaps a second opinion unless you really trust this guy. also check your gauge cluster as the cel lamp might be disabled - perhaps you bought the car off a devious individual who disabled the lamp so as to sell you a car with a problem?

[Homeoboxter]

Originally Posted by The Radium King

most likely failed variocam solenoid. to confirm drain the oil and look for green rubber bits that look like this:



work can be done with engine in car, but mechanic will most likely want to drop engine. lots of 'while you are in there' work to do - updated tensioners, chain tensioner pads, chains. do you want to fix both sides or just the side that failed, etc.

The picture is showing the variocam actuator, not the solenoid. Both can fail and both will throw codes but different ones. Both will require pulling the head cover.

[The Radium King]

apologies, i was using the terms interchangeably. they are typically both replaced when servicing the engine, show the same symptoms when fail, and are sold together as a unit by porsche - 99610505158.

[997_986]

I wonder what "bank 4/6" means. There are bank 1 and bank 2 (and no more) and cylinders 1 to 6. The fault can also be caused by completely worn rails. In any case, as already described, immediate action is necessary, the engine can remain installed, you have to create some space. This video shows an overview very nicely with a 5 chain engine that gives you an idew how much time is needed to perform the work and what spare parts are used to calculate the costs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocntYwozZBY&ab_channel=PorscheClubofAmerica

[theiceman]

Originally Posted by 997_986

I wonder what "bank 4/6" means. There are bank 1 and bank 2 (and no more) and cylinders 1 to 6. The fault can also be caused by completely worn rails. In any case, as already described, immediate action is necessary, the engine can remain installed, you have to create some space. This video shows an overview very nicely with a 5 chain engine that gives you an idew how much time is needed to perform the work and what spare parts are used to calculate the costs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocntYwozZBY&ab_channel=PorscheClubofAmerica

means the bank that has cylinders 4-6

[Homeoboxter]

Originally Posted by The Radium King

apologies, i was using the terms interchangeably. they are typically both replaced when servicing the engine, show the same symptoms when fail, and are sold together as a unit by porsche - 99610505158.

No worries, I just wanted to point out that these are different parts so the OP won't get confused. You can replace only the solenoid when it fails, it's easy to test, replace and relatively cheap. Especially compared to the whole actuator unit, which is pretty pricey. The actuator is actually rebuildable, you can get it rebuilt using new O-rings so you won't have to buy the whole entire unit for $$$.

When the solenoid fails the resistance in its coil will go infinite which the DME will see and throw a code. If the O-rings fail the changeover will be sluggish because the piston in the actuator won't hold oil pressure, this triggers a different code. When it fails completely that's when the green rubber debris is all over the sump.

Apart from these two, the most typical failure is the worn chain pads that also causes similar problems and codes because it will affect changover and timing. This is the most dangerous also, because if the chain pad disintegrates completely the small chain will run on bare metal letting steel debris get in the engine and the chain eventually jumps over causing valve to piston contact and subsequent catastrophic failure.

[theiceman]

Originally Posted by The Radium King

you should have got a check engine light as soon as your deviation went past 9 degrees.

yup i sure did ... and idle was lumpy...

[theiceman]

Originally Posted by Homeoboxter

No worries, I just wanted to point out that these are different parts so the OP won't get confused. You can replace only the solenoid when it fails, it's easy to test, replace and relatively cheap. Especially compared to the whole actuator unit, which is pretty pricey. The actuator is actually rebuildable, you can get it rebuilt using new O-rings so you won't have to buy the whole entire unit for $$$.

When the solenoid fails the resistance in its coil will go infinite which the DME will see and throw a code. If the O-rings fail the changeover will be sluggish because the piston in the actuator won't hold oil pressure, this triggers a different code. When it fails completely that's when the green rubber debris is all over the sump.

Apart from these two, the most typical failure is the worn chain pads that also causes similar problems and codes because it will affect changover and timing. This is the most dangerous also, because if the chain pad disintegrates completely the small chain will run on bare metal letting steel debris get in the engine and the chain eventually jumps over causing valve to piston contact and subsequent catastrophic failure.

on a related note i found that solenoid to be stupid expensive, couldn't find one used at the time..

Someone had put vice grips on the thing for some reason and chewed it to pieces right where the oil seal goes and it was leaking like a seive.

[The Radium King]

Originally Posted by Homeoboxter

The actuator is actually rebuildable, you can get it rebuilt using new O-rings so you won't have to buy the whole entire unit for $$$.

snap, that's cool. when mine failed the mechanic 'destructively' disassembled it so i assumed that it was a (expensive) one-use part. and a quick search found me this:

https://youtu.be/mH3BsU5zKLs?si=QmGwjah8GA_YygDg

thanks for the heads-up; will save me $ when (if) i ever gotta do it again.

good luck to the op; the use of vice grips on the motor should be your spirit guide to solving the problem.