Light pole > Porsche

[super66]

Originally Posted by MNBoxster

Only when we find the common ground of being Americans will these differences fade to insignificance...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

Scary thought for me, why should I have to find a common ground? common ground is assimilation. Hitler was looking for common ground too, he really was. I guess the debate and its a big one is who defines common ground?

I mean the original white Americans didn't assimilate to come to this country, we just pretty much ran the people here out...Thanksgiving sound familiar. Got to love Carlos Mencia.

So that's the catch there, who makes the rules?? I was born here, but I'm not ready to let the little culture I do have left fade to insignificance....besides if we join the common ground then what? Can women play at Augusta? Did they ever clear up allowing African-Americans into Augusta? Lesbians can't get in last I heard? Will they still hide behind private club status? I mean will the common ground solve all this? Many view the assimilation argument as avoidance...

"Political Correctness and Civil Rights legislation cannot legislate one's mind, only one's actions."

True, which is why I appreciated Randall's post, I am as guilty as the next guy of stereotyping and profiling and it is something we all fall victim to whether we are aware or unaware of it, but when I see it or am guilty of it, the only way to correct an action/behavior is to identify it.

[JackG]

I've really tried to stay out of this one, but I just had to address this post, so here goes...

Originally Posted by super66

"Scary thought for me, why should I have to find a common ground? common ground is assimilation. Hitler was looking for common ground too, he really was. I guess the debate and its a big one is who defines common ground?"

That whole statement was a joke. "Hitler was looking for common ground"?? Really? So he invited people of all nationalities to join him in his country of Arian purity, as long as they agreed to be the same? Really? You know the common ground discussed here is everyone living by the same rules (laws), and not claiming special status. You just insulted Jews everywhere.

"So that's the catch there, who makes the rules?? I was born here, but I'm not ready to let the little culture I do have left fade to insignificance....besides if we join the common ground then what? Can women play at Augusta? Did they ever clear up allowing African-Americans into Augusta? Lesbians can't get in last I heard? Will they still hide behind private club status? I mean will the common ground solve all this? Many view the assimilation argument as avoidance..."

No one is asking you to give up your "culture". In fact, you are quite free to engage in your culture here in the US... many people died to ensure you of that right... a vast majority of them white, btw. But being of a different culture does not give you special rights, or allow you to live here under different rules. You are just as free as the next guy.

And about the Augusta National? You have the right to form a private club to allow only people of your particular culture to join and participate. That's another one of those rights that a lot of people fought and died for. Guess what... it extend to the Augusta National too.

It seems funny to me that many people don't mind having the rights that are extended to all, but don't want whites to share in, and use, those same rights. Why is that?

FWIW MNJim, I have to agree with pretty much everything you wrote. It was better expressed than my meager writing skills allow.

I'm outta this thread.

[super66]

before we continue the fun anymore, let me just remind people of the fact in case they are jumping in that the problem arose over 2 off color comments...no pun intended.....all this other politically correct and whatever stuff is just a direct result....

my opinion is simple, those 2 statements were wrong, and I'm not the only member to share that sentiment nor the first to express the sentiment

but since people went in every direction to defend those comments......now onward forward


Quote:

"That whole statement was a joke. "Hitler was looking for common ground"?? Really? So he invited people of all nationalities to join him in his country of Arian purity, as long as they agreed to be the same? Really? You know the common ground discussed here is everyone living by the same rules (laws), and not claiming special status. You just insulted Jews everywhere."

hmmmmmm....intersting, a comment with no intent to offend ends up offending someone??? imagine that?? Sorry to any Jew that may have been offended, I was making an analogy, my limited information on Hitler was that he wanted people to posess main common traits, hence common.....man am I sick of this politically correct stuff making me apologize.....yet I'm not happy that you didn't jump in to point out when the mexicans were offended, or the African Americans may have been offended......I mean one member went as far to share such a great story of 2 different sets of African Amercan teens committing a crime back to back in the same day, not sure of the value to the tid bit but yeah whatever

"You know the common ground discussed here is everyone living by the same rules (laws), and not claiming special status."

You know these common rules and laws, constitution bill of rights, they have been amended you do know that right? You know there is always room for change right?

"No one is asking you to give up your "culture". In fact, you are quite free to engage in your culture here in the US... many people died to ensure you of that right... a vast majority of them white, btw. But being of a different culture does not give you special rights, or allow you to live here under different rules. You are just as free as the next guy."

no issue here with the white guy, married a white women and have a 1/2 white kid as a result....but yes, there are lot of people that would love for minorities to give up their culture.....

"And about the Augusta National? You have the right to form a private club to allow only people of your particular culture to join and participate. That's another one of those rights that a lot of people fought and died for. Guess what... it extend to the Augusta National too."

Your right to exclue to me is protecting discrimination but yeah I guess your private club is a cool place.....hey Tiger, want to come golf??? yeah we'll make an exception for you.....hmmmm.....you do know it was once perfectly acceptable to not allow african americans to sit in the front of the bus right? it was a protected right to exclude, to not let them have a full vote, you are aware right??? Sometimes a law that protects does in turn protect the discrimination.

two sides two every coin Jack. But I'm not out of the thread.....

[JackG]

Well, I guess one more post from me, super66...

I'm not defending the 2 comments in question, but rather taking your comments to task.

Your "analogy" using Hitler wasn't even close to an analogy. There was a huge logic disconnect. And it may be telling that you jump to everyone's defense, but don't mind offending Jews in the process, huh?

What changes do you want to make to the Bill of Rights? Evidently ones that grant different rights to different groups, since you seem vehemently opposed to rules that *all* must live by. That's what is currently in there.

And once again, you proclaim that a private club for males is discrimination, but I'd bet you'd be one of the first in line to protest if someone tried to shut down an exclusive all (insert your favorite minority ethnic group here) club. It's a double standard, and you are towing the same line that the PC media has fed you for years.

Last question: Do you support my right to start a NAAWP? National Association for the Advancement of White People? If you can truthfully answer that you do, then we've found our "common ground". If you think I'm a racist for even suggesting it, then I believe you've shown all your cards.

[super66]

Originally Posted by JackG

Well, I guess one more post from me, super66...

I'm not defending the 2 comments in question, but rather taking your comments to task.

Your "analogy" using Hitler wasn't even close to an analogy. There was a huge logic disconnect. And it may be telling that you jump to everyone's defense, but don't mind offending Jews in the process, huh?
Hey Jack, not sure why that is, maybe I'll explain the logic a bit different, if you don't follow it that's perfectly cool. I'm not saying Hitler was right, I'm actually saying he was a person at his time in his mind achieving a goal that he talked a lot of people into believing was the right thing to do. It was opression to the people that were faced by it, the Jews, anyone...so not sure where you are heading or if that helps. I didn't jump to any particular defense other that to say the comments were wrong, it was other forum members that defended the comments.

What changes do you want to make to the Bill of Rights? Evidently ones that grant different rights to different groups, since you seem vehemently opposed to rules that *all* must live by. That's what is currently in there.

For starters get rid of augusta and that scam, Ibut in general I don't have an agenda for things that should change. It was an example showing there is room for change. Life is about change. My reference to the bill of rights and constitution was simple in that it allowed for slavery, for segregation, it wasn't a perfect thing and hence why in time we've made changes to it. Change never stops, so why allow Augusta to disciminate, why Tiger and not other african Americans?


And once again, you proclaim that a private club for males is discrimination, but I'd bet you'd be one of the first in line to protest if someone tried to shut down an exclusive all (insert your favorite minority ethnic group here) club. It's a double standard, and you are towing the same line that the PC media has fed you for years.
One thing I tried to do is not make assumptions in this thread. Its dangerous and if you truly want to grow as a person you have to be aware of your actions, assumptions, and in this case stereotypes. For example, I'm not assuming you are Jewish, you might be, but I didn't accuse you of jumping to their defense because you are jewish did I? That would be assuming a lot. So to answer your questions fairly and perfectly honestly, I would care if they wanted to shut down an exclusive minority group, because no one is asking Augusta to close down, just open its doors to all. See thats what I'm saying, now if you wanted to join an exclusive ethnic group and they shut you out because off race, I would have issues with that. Suprised? Then again, I am not a member of any exclusive groups or ethnic groups for that matter. The closet I come is this forum and spanish rock band, of which 2 of 4 members are white.....do I care that when we open for national acts in a crowd of 3K latinos that I have to white band members? Hell no they rock.....no exclusivity or PC on my end....just a clear cut right from wrong perspective.....

Last question: Do you support my right to start a NAAWP? National Association for the Advancement of White People? If you can truthfully answer that you do, then we've found our "common ground". If you think I'm a racist for even suggesting it, then I believe you've shown all your cards.

Honestly great question and it depends on the intent, I mean isn't the KKK kind of doing that to an extreme as their right? Now change that to NAAI(Italians, or NAAF,french, or germans. Seeking advancement for a race/ethnicity, then I am cool, you should have a right to know as much and care for the advancement of your people. But Whites? Blacks? Browns? Sounds extremist don't you think? Besides, I am white, well I am Mexican, but like grizzly mentioned, Mexican is not considered a race anymore
We are now considered white, so when I check boxes like when my daughter was born, I first checked white, then had the option to select hispanic down the road......so ultimately in today's world I am a white male that took offense to 2 ugly comments to a different race. Is that so bad?????

And seriously, if I thought my analogy was offensive I wouldn't have made it, I simply meant it was an eveil evil guy trying to make everyone the same.....