Keep in mind im spanish/mexican and im not at all offended by the comment of "mexican about to be deported" because its true, thats usually seated on the curb with tie-warp hand cuffs. Being politically incorrect doesnt matter to me since its true in most cases. I've seen it alot of times in Wilmington California since theres alot of mexicans that settle there cause of the really high undocumented mexican rate in that city.

Now about your story, If its true, those guys were probably going to car jack you. when i had my Z3, these black males in Ladrea Heights bumped my rear bumper lightly from behind to get me to pull over with them to inspect damage. Thugs of course. They got out and were standing very very close to me outside the car while i walked behind my car, I felt like they were going to steal my keys out of my hand. Cop car rolls up and one of the guys says "**************** this car we dont need it, lets go" so they calmly walk towards there car and leave, I tell the police what happened and he pulls them over easily cause its 12pm lunch time traffic and i help file the report. This doesnt mean all black people commit all crimes cause i hate to make that general of a comment but Ladrea Heights is the black beverly Hills so if any crime will happen, chances are the criminal will be black cause most criminals commit crime local to there residence. But be werey of individuals that try to get you to pull over and seem like thugs or unsavory people. You would rather be sorry and have a police car pull you over for leaving the sence of an accident, not a regular person.

CJ, Carlos, you can make light of whatever you want and I figured as much you had some mexican in you. For your info I am 100% mexican. And reading my first post you'd see I am as big a fan of chapelle and mencia, and to borrow your term I think they are funny as hell too.....

now that said take the time to go read the posts, you really think those were jokes? you aren't seeing how many people are "fed" up woth politically correct? I mean at some point people thought that abolishing slavery was an absurd thought as well. In fact some people were probably fed up with the talks of abolishing slavery, about allowing blacks to be 1 person, not 3/5ths a person or 2/5ths, can you see I'm not that politcaly correct freak yet?

But dude, I'm not chillin with blinders. Think about it, we had someone here post a link to educate the members on how affirmative action does nothing more that allow minorities to be mediocore? hmmm.....do you no the upside? do you know the whole University of Michigan case with affirmitative action? look it up, its hysterical.....

do yourself a fav, search out eslai's post in this thread because he is spot on....like he said, he doesn't remember all the reasoning and arguments but the basis is there....you ever want to know more, PM me, I'll be happy to chat with you about it......just don't go with blinders, not sure if vijen is mexican, black, asian, who cares really, but I've seen cops, and mexicans aren't the only ones that sit on the curb when they get busted, know what I'm saying???

so with that said, I didn't have too much of a problem with vijens post, the ensuing comments yes, 2 in particular, considering some of the statements came from a member who degrades his very own people, I hardly doubt they were made in a joking matter....

Later bro....FYI, I'm a Carlos too.....well chuck, technicalities......

Hi,

I think the race issue is waaay too complicated to sum up in a single thread on this forum.

But, I also think that PC stifles proper debate, you can't be for some issues and not for others (as an example, one could be for Affirmative Action in education, but oppose favored status for job applications) because PC encompasses the whole Pkg., you cannot pick and choose or you're prejudiced or not PC. I do believe that some minority leaders try to put a collective guilt on all people not of color.

While 4th generation American, I was raised overseas in the '50s, '60s. Race wasn't an issue where I lived, even though there were plenty of non-whites.

Only when we moved back to the States was Race an issue. I was blamed, chided, or discriminated against on numerous occasions because of an assumption of what my people did to Blacks (no racial profiling there of course, associating my skin color with that of the Slave Owners). Certain words which cannot be used by non-minorities, can be used freely by minorities in speech and music, as if the words are non-discriminating so long as they pass through a pair of colored (Black, Red, Brown, anything but non-white) lips.

My ancestors immigrated from Ireland to the US in 1887. In other words, my Great Grandaddy never owned anyone else's Great Grandaddy, so where's the fairness in blaming me and my family for the plight of the Blacks? Or are minorities only interested in achieving Color-Blindness so long as they retain an advantage in doing so?

The Irish were discriminated against horribly when they first arrived in this country, it is well documented. No redress has ever been made of this injustice. The Irish, through the course of a generation, learned to assimilate into the society and rose themselves up out of poverty as have the Germans, Italians, Jews, Poles, Scandinavians and other immigrant groups including many Asian and African immigrants today - through education and hard work. Many Immigrant groups who arrived here, long after many minorities have had their barriers removed, have made much greater strides in a shorter period of time, primarily because they understood and embraced these basic principles.

Society did not accept these groups developing their own subcultures of Language, Dress, mores and still allow them to succeed. Assimilation has always been the doorway to the American Dream. Cultural rites and differences were still retained, revered, and celebrated by these groups within their cultures, such as Columbus Day, St. Patrick's Day, Svenskarnistag Day, St. Stanislaw Day and others.

I could not score less on my SAT and acquire admission to a University. I cannot get low-interest loans for housing, or to start a business, merely based upon the color of my skin, regardless of whether I meet the qualifying standards. I cannot receive favored status on Government or Civil Service job applications. Yet, my people did nothing to subjugate those African ancestors of today's Black population, why am I treated as though they had?

And if, as many people have stated to me over my life, today's preferential treatment of minorities is to make up for past issues of discrimination, when does it end? When will restitution have been made, especially since today's minorities weren't the ones who were actually enslaved?? When will minorities, and Blacks in particular, be responsible for their own lives whether they be a success or a failure?

When a Minority person succeeds in life (regardless of whatever Helping Hand they may or may not have received), they are often commended for having achieved so much, in spite of any barriers.

But, if a Minority person fails, it is Society which is blamed, not the poor judgement or actions (or non-actions) of the individual.

Someone said that if the majority of the population of inner-city jails are minorities, that's not Racial Profiling, it is the Law of Averages (especially if one considers the Inner-city demographics in the US's largest cities).

As I said, too complex a subject to properly delve into here. I'm just disappointed that the Race issue ever came up at all because I never considered anyone on this Forum to merit any more, or less, attention because of their ancestry. I measure a member by the content of their message.

I guess we've lost some of the purity of just being Car Guys and Boxster Owners, and that is disappointing.

But, I believe that if you want something like discrimination to end, you eventually gotta let it go...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

Extremely well said Jim.

Man, it is all about the free ride and has nothing to do with fairness. I was born in Canada, my parents were born in Canada. In Canada we never had slaves. In fact Canada openly welcomed escaped slaves. What color do you think our criminals are? What color do you think our welfare people and ghettos are? The race to crime statistics look a whole lot like the USA. We have quotas at job hiring, at school admission and all those things as well. They cannot say "hey we were slaves in Canada" so instead they make it almost illegal to release statistics. I am glad I live in countries now where no one cares about these things and PC does not exist.

Your story kinda reminds me of what happened to me a few years back. A friend and I were out at 2AM just cruising(just got his license) and we pull up at a light. Now keep in mind we are just minding our own business,not causing a riot or playing loud music. This Cadillac Escalade pull up next to us loaded with African-Americans wearing bandannas and the passenger rolls down his window,stares at my friend,now he says something to my friend but he ignored him and asked me to look and see if the guy was looking at him. The passenger in the Escalade was just staring at him,dead-stare my friend freaked out! Then the passenger rolls up his window and 2 people tried to hop out the passenger side of the Cadillac and jack our car!?!?! Thank God my friend launched his car,otherwise I don't know where I would be today. What is wrong with the world today?! If you want something go earn it!

Glad your o.k.

Blinkwatt: I blame gangster rap music & anti-social individuals pairing up to form gangs which helped fuel the start of "Gangster thugs" in the mexican and black communities and the rappers that claim its not there music that fuels the fire.

Terrific perspective added , I would counter 2 points.
The immigrant cultures that overcame discrimination had 2 distinct advantages over blacks.

#1-Strong culture of a strong family unit , never underestimate the value of an active father.

#2-White skin.Assimilation is much easier when Europeans and Latinos had the same skin color as the masses.Blacks have an inherent handicap in assimilation in their skin color.

I will agree that it takes individual desire to rise above any oppressed or depressed cycle, self made or otherwise.Sometimes those individuals need help.

A benevolent society should offer a helping hand to those that need , while not addicting the needy to the handouts.

Hi,

I think that the points you make have some validity, but were more true in years gone by than they are today.

With respect to point #1, family units were often broken apart under the agrarian slave system prior to the 1870's, and one can even make the same point with the migration of Black fathers to the industrial north in the 1st 1/3 of the last century in search of employment. But, the past 30 years in particular have brought much awareness to the Black community about the importance of men accepting the father's role in the family unit. So I think it's a bit of an overworked excuse now. If they choose to ignore their role, can they still claim ignorance? Can we continue to blame historical precedence over personal choice?

On point #2, basically the same thing. People of Mediterranean, Scandinavian, Italian, Germanic and Eastern European heritage often possess identifying characteristics which can be used to discriminate. The current US population also contains millions of people of color aside from Blacks, again with very distinguishable features. Women too cannot help but bear distinguishing characteristics (God love 'em) ;) . If one chooses to think ill of them, there's nothing anyone can do.

Political Correctness and Civil Rights legislation cannot legislate one's mind, only one's actions. Legislation can only ensure that opportunity is not denied. So long as we continue to focus on the differences, these issues will continue to exist. Only when we find the common ground of being Americans will these differences fade to insignificance...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

Scary thought for me, why should I have to find a common ground? common ground is assimilation. Hitler was looking for common ground too, he really was. I guess the debate and its a big one is who defines common ground?

I mean the original white Americans didn't assimilate to come to this country, we just pretty much ran the people here out...Thanksgiving sound familiar. Got to love Carlos Mencia.

So that's the catch there, who makes the rules?? I was born here, but I'm not ready to let the little culture I do have left fade to insignificance....besides if we join the common ground then what? Can women play at Augusta? Did they ever clear up allowing African-Americans into Augusta? Lesbians can't get in last I heard? Will they still hide behind private club status? I mean will the common ground solve all this? Many view the assimilation argument as avoidance...

"Political Correctness and Civil Rights legislation cannot legislate one's mind, only one's actions."

True, which is why I appreciated Randall's post, I am as guilty as the next guy of stereotyping and profiling and it is something we all fall victim to whether we are aware or unaware of it, but when I see it or am guilty of it, the only way to correct an action/behavior is to identify it.

I've really tried to stay out of this one, but I just had to address this post, so here goes...

No one is asking you to give up your "culture". In fact, you are quite free to engage in your culture here in the US... many people died to ensure you of that right... a vast majority of them white, btw. But being of a different culture does not give you special rights, or allow you to live here under different rules. You are just as free as the next guy.

And about the Augusta National? You have the right to form a private club to allow only people of your particular culture to join and participate. That's another one of those rights that a lot of people fought and died for. Guess what... it extend to the Augusta National too.

It seems funny to me that many people don't mind having the rights that are extended to all, but don't want whites to share in, and use, those same rights. Why is that?

FWIW MNJim, I have to agree with pretty much everything you wrote. It was better expressed than my meager writing skills allow.

I'm outta this thread.

before we continue the fun anymore, let me just remind people of the fact in case they are jumping in that the problem arose over 2 off color comments...no pun intended.....all this other politically correct and whatever stuff is just a direct result....

my opinion is simple, those 2 statements were wrong, and I'm not the only member to share that sentiment nor the first to express the sentiment

but since people went in every direction to defend those comments......now onward forward


Quote:

"That whole statement was a joke. "Hitler was looking for common ground"?? Really? So he invited people of all nationalities to join him in his country of Arian purity, as long as they agreed to be the same? Really? You know the common ground discussed here is everyone living by the same rules (laws), and not claiming special status. You just insulted Jews everywhere."

hmmmmmm....intersting, a comment with no intent to offend ends up offending someone??? imagine that?? Sorry to any Jew that may have been offended, I was making an analogy, my limited information on Hitler was that he wanted people to posess main common traits, hence common.....man am I sick of this politically correct stuff making me apologize.....yet I'm not happy that you didn't jump in to point out when the mexicans were offended, or the African Americans may have been offended......I mean one member went as far to share such a great story of 2 different sets of African Amercan teens committing a crime back to back in the same day, not sure of the value to the tid bit but yeah whatever :D

"You know the common ground discussed here is everyone living by the same rules (laws), and not claiming special status."

You know these common rules and laws, constitution bill of rights, they have been amended you do know that right? You know there is always room for change right?

"No one is asking you to give up your "culture". In fact, you are quite free to engage in your culture here in the US... many people died to ensure you of that right... a vast majority of them white, btw. But being of a different culture does not give you special rights, or allow you to live here under different rules. You are just as free as the next guy."

no issue here with the white guy, married a white women and have a 1/2 white kid as a result....but yes, there are lot of people that would love for minorities to give up their culture.....

"And about the Augusta National? You have the right to form a private club to allow only people of your particular culture to join and participate. That's another one of those rights that a lot of people fought and died for. Guess what... it extend to the Augusta National too."

Your right to exclue to me is protecting discrimination but yeah I guess your private club is a cool place.....hey Tiger, want to come golf??? yeah we'll make an exception for you.....hmmmm.....you do know it was once perfectly acceptable to not allow african americans to sit in the front of the bus right? it was a protected right to exclude, to not let them have a full vote, you are aware right??? Sometimes a law that protects does in turn protect the discrimination.

two sides two every coin Jack. But I'm not out of the thread.....

Well, I guess one more post from me, super66...

I'm not defending the 2 comments in question, but rather taking your comments to task.

Your "analogy" using Hitler wasn't even close to an analogy. There was a huge logic disconnect. And it may be telling that you jump to everyone's defense, but don't mind offending Jews in the process, huh?

What changes do you want to make to the Bill of Rights? Evidently ones that grant different rights to different groups, since you seem vehemently opposed to rules that *all* must live by. That's what is currently in there.

And once again, you proclaim that a private club for males is discrimination, but I'd bet you'd be one of the first in line to protest if someone tried to shut down an exclusive all (insert your favorite minority ethnic group here) club. It's a double standard, and you are towing the same line that the PC media has fed you for years.

Last question: Do you support my right to start a NAAWP? National Association for the Advancement of White People? If you can truthfully answer that you do, then we've found our "common ground". If you think I'm a racist for even suggesting it, then I believe you've shown all your cards.

The lack of a strong family unit is caused by high incarceration rates , drug use , teenage pregancy rates & low education achievement , low income levels , low housing standards.

As for assimilation , I as a Hispanic had a much easier path to Middle America from the streets of NY than people of color.I have white skin.Black people don't!

The average person cannot fully appreciate the plightof black america.
Try living in the projects , living on public assistance , buy groceries with food stamps, grow up in a one parent household , have to deal with street crime and drugs on a regular basis , visit friends and family in jail , have law enforcement view you as a threat ,live with suffocating peer pressure or have BLACK SKIN.

We will never understand how it feels to be black and we should not think that the problems of the black community are all self inflicted or should be solved by their own resolve.

Everyone is racist to a certain extent, justified or not,

Last post for me on race relations.

WOW!

very interesting thread. I agree with Jim that something has been lost in the forum now.... :(

can't we just talk about Porsches and having fun with our cars?

everybody has their own thoughts & feelings about race relations

and no internet car forum is going to change them. Is it? Why be divisive when you don't need to be?

But being married to a wonderful mexican lady, lemme tell you discrimination sure does exist in real life, and as a white guy I would have never seen it the way I have being married to her.

BACK TO CARS, EH?

Can't we all just get along ?


http://986forum.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=4800&stc=1

Honestly great question and it depends on the intent, I mean isn't the KKK kind of doing that to an extreme as their right? Now change that to NAAI(Italians, or NAAF,french, or germans. Seeking advancement for a race/ethnicity, then I am cool, you should have a right to know as much and care for the advancement of your people. But Whites? Blacks? Browns? Sounds extremist don't you think? Besides, I am white, well I am Mexican, but like grizzly mentioned, Mexican is not considered a race anymore :confused:
We are now considered white, so when I check boxes like when my daughter was born, I first checked white, then had the option to select hispanic down the road......so ultimately in today's world I am a white male that took offense to 2 ugly comments to a different race. Is that so bad?????

And seriously, if I thought my analogy was offensive I wouldn't have made it, I simply meant it was an eveil evil guy trying to make everyone the same.....

thanks for the perspective.....a different view from the other side and yes, I thought his was supposed to be about bumpers now :)

i agree lets talk carsssssss. i love the boxster in white super66. i still havent seen the new 987 in person in white. something about white cars that i'm attracted too. i used to have a white car, and hoped to buy the boxster in white, but couldnt find one at the time that i bought my car.

you are the man 986! I love the ride in white....it reminded me of my dads old white convertible Toyota Celica and driving it around when I was in highschool.....always thought my porsche would be guards red or the silver/red like perfect lap's....I don't know remind me of James Bond....but I got to run my wife just accused me of being addicted to you guys because I don't even have the TV on.....she doesn't know that the little one just broke the remote and I refuse to get up and hit the power :D

Statistics speak for itself.
95% of all the crime commited in NYC is by blacks. not by asian or whites but by blacks.. read the paper and watch the news..!

My 2 cents..don't drive your Porsche in a black neighborhood and you would not have to worry about being car jack,etc.

I'm surrounded by idiots.

grizzly i couldnt agree more. why even post such a stupid comment. it might be a fact, but it again has nothing to do with the original post.

have some class, don't post for the hell of posting. did you ever think that there are black people on this site, that would take offence to these comments. you probably didnt because you don't care. the reason why you would get car jacked by a black guy in a black neighbourhood, is because you deserved it. you'd be the guy driving his porsche flaunting it, trying to look better then everyone else.

your 2 sense can't buy you anything dude. grow up and start reading the actual post not what other idiots are posting.

"My 2 cents..don't drive your Porsche in a black neighborhood and you would not have to worry about being car jack,etc."

:barf:

ah yes the inevitable....this comment makes me sick......lock it up before more confess!!!!!

vijen, what bumper are you going with??? bumpers.....bumpers.....bumpers....

did you consider the cayman bumper out of curiosity?

I hope you're ok man :\

_________________________

Maybe the "dark" side of this forum (figurative, not literal) should have their annual Boxsterfest in South America where Hitler's henchmen absconded after the war. They'd be in good company.

I'm actually shocked by the amount of morons in this forum. I didnt think it was possible. One would expect some class from a Porsche owner realizing this is an ignorant, stupid expectation.

Still disappointed. :barf:

Oh yeah. I must have glazed over this quote after all the hoopla:

"Then they called my parents to come pick me up and called a tow truck for the car and left. "

This is simply priceless.

Bruce...just close this thread coz' i don't see this stopping anytime soon. Have vijen start a new one if he want to know more about bumpers....

okay..i'm going back to work :(

Bruce Lee, I don't see anything positive coming from keeping this thread open, lock this puppy down..........PLEASE!

I think its good to keep it open, If anything, it gets alot of peoples perspectives into the air and can change them also. Except for me of course, I believe that desperation and poverty cause people to commit crimes and people who dont help themselves, help themselves to your hard earned possesions... No matter race and location. Comes down to morals and financial situations of the individuals that make these decisions.

Hi, My suggestion for the ones who care a little would be picking up the movies CRASH and 4 Brothers and then for some humor WHY YOU CRYING (George Lopez).

:cheers:

you know what, when I first saw crash I thought what a dumb movie.....it is so over the top and over done......hmmmmm...seems I was wrong.......


"for some humor WHY YOU CRYING (George Lopez)."
I never cared for him until I saw this.....man was it hysterical!!!!!! it hit home with so many of the things my parents did when I was growing up.....totally recommend

I don't think I can live with this!

I seen that, it was filmed in Long Beach, really funny!

I lived in Argentina for a while. There were a couple of old German men who lived in my building. I always thought they seemed like nice guys.

I going to close this thread. Some folks here have really tried to have an intelligent conversation on this issue, others are content to use the "racist" tag whenever they feel threatened.

To bad, a worthwhile effort gone bad IMHO.