Adolf Hitler's Porsche for sale
 

Hi,

Well, except that it's an AUDI (Auto Union). F. Porsche did do some design work but that's a far cry from calling it a Porsche...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

The article said it was "created by Ferdinand Porsche". Also:
"The car, one of the fastest of its time, has 485 horse-power and a maximum speed of 186mph..."

One needn't worry about depreciation on this one. Comes out 10/10 for a classic both on exclusivity and story.

I suppose if laying down the basic specifications of a rear engine V16 Grand Prix car, and then selling that design to Auto Union in 1933 can be called "some design work", then Ferdinand Porsche did "some" of the work on it.

I suppose it could be argued that Porsche himself probably didn't put so much as one line of the car on an engineering drawing. That was handled by Karl Rabe and the engineering staff at Porsche's design company.
The same argument is often made about American designer Harry Miller and his racing engines. Did Miller design them, or was it really Leo Goossen, his engineer and draftsman? Or, ... maybe even Fred Offenhauser, his chief machinist?

In any event, by the time the car in question was built, doubtless one of the last ones built for racing in the 1937 season, Porsche was well out of the development process at Auto Union.

Sorry, my mistake for not reading the article carefully enough. It does say a "1939" car.

According to Richard von Frankenberg's book "Porsche - the Man and His Cars", the '38 and '39 Auto Union racing cars were the work of German engineering professor Eberan von Eberhorst, albeit following the basic overall design originally laid down by Porsche some years before.

No way in hell I would even come close to that car. I can't keep from wrecking my car...I can't imagine owning Hitlers ride. Bad Karma (no pun intended). Like taking a lava rock home from Hawaii...just ask one of the Brady kids.

even though hitler was responsible to killing large part of my family in a war, id still take that ride.

damn 485hp in that time must have felt like a rocket with no traction!

I wonder how many miles are on it :P

485 hp? omg! :eek:

When considering a car such as this one must distance themselves emotionally from the history of its owners..

When you do that you can only look at it and see how stunning it is.

The only other car I've ever though the same of was the Mercedes W196 in the Indianapolis Motor Speedway museum.

Whatever man...I personally would not buy this car...I am not a big fan of collecting paraphenalia belonging to dictators, mass murderers, or anybody else that have committed crimes against humanity. Stunning or not, the car belonged to one of the most evil men in the history of the world...there is bound to be some jacked up vibes coming from that ride. No amount of finger cymbals or Dominican witch doctors would cleanse that car. Bad Ju Ju my man. When your dog dies and your twig and berries fall off...don't say I didn't tell you so.

I never knew Porsche was a pal of Hitler! I am going to sell my car right now because that would be the PC thing to do!

ur kidding, right? :confused:

it would be funny as hell if a rich jew bought it and burnt it :cheers:

Hi,

Not only was Porsche one of Hitler's cronies, but several innovations or designs were attributed to him, which he had little or nothing to do with just to bolster the Nazi Party's position with the People. One such instance was the myth that Porsche was the Father of the Volkswagen.

Actually, the Father of the People's Car (a phrase coined in Czeckoslavakia in 1923 but later adopted by the Nazis) was a designer named Hans Ledwinka working for the Koprivnicka Wagenbau of Czechoslovakia, better known as the Tatra Werks. The model was named the Tatra T-97, and featured a rear mounted horizontally opposed 4-cyl. air-cooled engine and transaxle.

This Factory, and it's designs, lay in the Sudetenland (german speaking area of Czechoslvakia) which was annexed by Germany in accord with the Munich Agreement between Great Britain (Neville Chamberlain) and Germany (Adolf Hitler) in 1938.

Porsche had been commissioned in late 1934 by the Nazi Party controlled Imperial Federation of the German Automobile Industry with 20,000 imperial marks (RM) to produce an inexpensive German Car. His designs were not meeting the requirements of the commission and in 1938, the original plans were scrapped in favor of adopting the captured plans of the Tatra T-97 which was renamed the KdF Wagen (Car). KdF stands for Kraft durch Freude which literally means Strength through Joy - one of the Nazi Party's most popular slogans.

Again, to bolster Party propoganda, Porsche was given credit for the design. But a Tribunal in 1963 ruled that the design was indeed stolen from the Tatra Werks in 1938 and was designed by Hans Ledwinka. Volkswagen AG was forced to pay 3M DM (Deutch Marks) to the heirs of the Tatra Werks owner and Hans Ledwinka. Volkswagen did not appeal the ruling and paid the required restitution. A pic below of a Tatra T-97, and the cover of a 1939 KdF Wagen Sales Brochure - you decide...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

I believe that Porsche did some jail time after the war related to his work with the Reich.

Does anyone know if that is true?

you betcha
 

he got convicted by the Froggies for something, and was held in French prison for 3 or 4 years? I am not sure how long. His son worked very hard to get him out, as his sentence was 10 years I think. Ferdie (the son) was convinced his confinment led to his death.

Both Ferdinand and his son, Ferry, were held by the French for a brief time, some accounts holding that they were essentially ransomed back from the French by the family.
Von Frankenberg's book intimates that it was all mostly a business deal gone awry by French politics. Porsche was supposedly to design a French "peoples car" and his place of confinement turned out to be in the Renault villa in Paris.
The von Frankenberg book is usually comprehensive about early Porsche history, but this particular episode is glossed over in conspicuously sketchy fashion.

Jim you are a virtual cornicopia of information. Frankly I wouldnt want to get rid of my porsche even if Adolf Hilter himself shagged a women in the front seat and soiled the dash. The p-cars of today are similar to the p-cars of yesterday in that they were brisk little track cars but thats where the similarities end. They are just AMAZING CARS! My MY97 Boxster is my first newer modern Porsche I've owned and Now Im hooked. I will continue to buy porsches for the rest of my life unless GM buys them out, then i will stop buying them.

Hi,

I have always been a real History buff and I'm a car guy, so automotive history is of particular interest.

I dunno though, if Hitler did soil the dash, that might be a deal-breaker for me, for the same reason I wouldn't want Monica's blue dress... ;)

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

can u guys just picture hitler driving that thing? kinda weird

_______________________________
ROFL!! No wonder I love this forum so much

Hope the person gets a PPI before they buy it... ;)

I'd hate to find out it had a RMS leak after I drove home with it...

Was it actually owned by Hitler? He commissioned its creation, sure, but was he or Auto Union, the actual owner?

I think he leased it. The bank owned it. ;)

but the real question is COULD 'ole Adolf have soiled the dash when he was supposedly missing some "vital" private parts?? :barf:

Hi,

True, but the fact is that there is so much speculation about Hitler that it's hard to sort through the BS. From supposedly being a Jew, to being a castrato, to being named in one of Nostradamus's quatrains, to running an Argentine Mango Stand with Elvis... ;)

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

I once heard a somewhat plausible theory that Hitler had syphillis, which would explain why he went progressively nuttier.

also supposedly the good Dr. Morell was pumping him full of amphetamines for a long time, which could lead to paranoia.

I like the Argie Mango stand theory best!

Not to beat a dead horse, but there are some interesting comments about the subject car on the web site noted below. Of particular interest are the ones by Colin Crabbe ...

http://www.autoblog.com/2006/12/02/auction-action-the-most-expensive-car-ever-hitlers-auto-uni

Auto Union yes Hitler No
 

In all honesty many people were made to serve the german nazi machine. If any of you have lived under a totalitarian regime that controls your live totally, you would think otherwise. I lived under Castro's Cuba and I know the inducements for cooperation with the government. Try murder, assasination, gestapo spies in every block you are totally subjected to total control by just one word "fear" for you and your family. Porsche did what he had to do, same as Von Braun etc., I am sure in order to keep his family alive. This has happened in Russia, and all totalitarian countries. Nothing new. This is about to happen now to Venezuela.
As far as the car is concerned it is an object of engineering from the epoch and that in itself would be enough to have it exhibited as the Auto Union that raced in the thirties, not as Hitlers car. The Auto Union racer is worthy of MOMA like the XK-E is.

Porsche was a Stinking Nazi!
 

So he deserved to do jail time! :

I hope he drives a Yugo in hell, and has to sit in a chair soiled personally by his fuerher.

The company he founded sure makes great cars, though.

If I read this right you are making Cubans out to be idiots. Just like the US government dealt with the Indians here. Give them liquor and tabacco and rob their lands. You dont know the devil the way I knew him. He used to televise executions at lunchtime on TV and you tell me he did not assasinate or use murder to persuade the masses. His firing squads put many Cubans in their graves and his kangaroo cours send many others to Isla de Pino for 30 years during the revolution and after and to hear from from you " a foreigner( a disinterested observer) to tell me the guy is no Hitler is naive and disingenous". You probably lived in the houses we( exiles) used to own. As far as I am concerned no death is too good for him and his comite del barrios. In my book a murderer is a murderer whether it is one, one hundred thousand or millions. Like Hitler he destroyed the country robbed everyone and I am sure he has a nice Swiss account like a good commie.

No, I agree with everything you said about Fidel being a bad guy and the day he dies I will move back to Cuba. But he has survived for 47 years because the vast majority of Cubans have done NOTHING to stop him.

By the way, I deleted my post right after I wrote it but you responded too fast. I knew it was going to get long winded response that I have heard a million times. The fact of the matter is that the thousands of Cubans I have met over the years (on the island) have done nothing but complain about their condition without a single act of protest. If the Cubans do not think Cuba is worth fighting for, then do not expect anyone else.

By the way, I will explain what I mean about the beer comment. I spent the winter of 1999 in Cuba. I remember there were some food shortages in Cienfuegos. I do not know why but most stores had little or no food for about 2-3 weeks. So naturally everyone is going around complaining and asking Mr Tourista for $1, my friend.

I told the people asking for money that they should all go to Havana to complain about the situation. And naturally they expressed the usual Cuban line "no one can do that!" while complaining how much Cuba sucked.

Fidel must have smelled the discontent because a couple days later up drove the beer trucks. For the people reading who have never been to Cuba think of a large water tanker filled with flat beer for only 5 cents a cup.

The Cubans all came running out by the thousands and got drunk. They also all changed their tune and said how great Cuba was since they did not have to work and could get drunk.



[QUOTE=Pilot2519j]If I read this right you are making Cubans out to be idiots. Just like the US government dealt with the Indians here. Give them liquor and tabacco and rob their lands. QUOTE]

Where do I begin after reading your post? Obviously you lack total historical data about Cuba which in this post you have gone from years to one winter in Cuba. So much for your veracity. It could be just ignorance or benign neglect that you are not aware of the facts. In 1961 the Playa of Giron invasion was a wake up call for the exiles when the US backed out of supplying air cover for the invaders. That is a fact and that the great President Kennedy like any good democrat put his tail between his legs and let the Cubans dry with no air cover. Adding insult to injury the US made a secret pact with the Russians of not letting any subversion or invasion of any sort to topple Castro in exchange for having the missiles withdrawn from Cuba. This promise or pact was kept until the USSR imploded. Fidel has protected himself from any demonstration by his comite de defensa del barrio. The function of the comites as trained by the East German Secret Police (Stassi) is to put away any dissident to Isla de Pino for as long as it takes to remold his political outlook. Naturally throw in an execution here and there that always works. There are no weapons that the population of Cuba has at their hands to start shooting since they were rounded up much before your stay in the winter of 1999. Geography works against any kind of subversion since Cuba is an island that is well guarded by the Castro regime. The only ones that get in are the drug runners from Colombia, Panama, Venezuela, Mexico as a layover to continue to the US with their cocaine and illegal drugs that are peddled here. I don't expect anything from anyone since most latin countries made great wealths by having Fidel there. Colombia got a slice of the sugar quota, Jamaica, Santo Domingo, Mexico , Puerto Rico all have benifited greatly by the tourism that Cuba used to get. There is no urgency or sympathy to assist any Cuban by any of those countries since they all profit by the situation staying the same. Cuba had the highest standard of living up to 1960 and was the envy of most South American countries. As far as your repartee about Cubans in general is naive. You might have been years " one winter in 1999" but you know nothing of Cuba, Cubans or anything about Cuba. I said what I had to say now, we can talk about the boxsters!!!!!!!!!!!! Now I feel good. I will let the "my friend" comment slide in the spirit of Christmas. Feliz Navidad amigo!

I said spent several years in Cuba and gave you one example of something that happened one winter. I did not say I only spent one winter there. I am sure though you realised that.

Anyway, a lot of what you said is true. You forgot though that Cubans never protest Fidel in Havana, never have strikes, never commit acts of terror against Fidel, never publish a secret newspaper, never vandalise anything, never organise themselves in Cuba or Miami, in fact, they never do just about anything. Even the French showed more cojones when taken over.

Imagine if a US president told the people "hey, by the way, I am a commie and from now on there is no more constitution because we are all now working for the Soviets!" He would not live more than 5 minutes no matter who he had on his side because the people would put an end to him one way or another. But 47 years? To die in his boots?

And one more thing, I have fired a handgun in Cuba. If a tourist can get a gun do not tell me there are no guns. The secret policeman who was suppose to be spying on the tourist was much more interested in going "deep undercover" and spent many a night drinking with me. More than once we went out shooting at trees and things after finishing off a bottle or two of Havana Club. Fidel only needs one bullet and someone with balls. I have seen the bullet...but....the balls?

yugo is not a bad car.

my uncles yugo has over 500k miles on it, just regular maintenance.

i wish i can say that a boxster will do the same

HI,

I think Cartagena has a point. It is true that the Many are governed by the Few, but by the consent of the Many. This is the only way that any ruler or govt. can rule.

Using his example of the President, if the poeple resolutely opposed him and called for his ouster or a disolution of the government, if the President chose not to abide by their wishes, he would only have the Armed Forces to impose his will upon the population. The total number of people in the Armed Forces is 1,421,950. How long do you think they can hold out against 328,500,000 determined citizens in opposition? They would be outnumbered 328:1.

The Military is more powerful than civilians, but it's akin to an army of Ants attacking an Elephant. The Elephant will kill thousands with each stomp of it's feet, but in the end, the Ants will win. But, this theory, and any real revolution, starts with a citizenry united and steadfast in their opposition, and who are willing to die as individuals to insure the revolution succeeds...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99