Can't Get My IMS Bearing Out!
 

ok, so I'm trying to remove my IMSB and it just will not budge. I'm using a homemade removal system partly seen in Burner's Cars videos but while his seemed to pop out very easily, mine is being tightened so much that I fear for my safety if something slips and parts go flying.
Originally I was using plastic PVC 2" tubing but once I discovered how much pressure was needed, I decided to get metal. Of course, the trouble with metal is it's difficult to find the proper length. I am limited on travel because I was only able to find one bolt anywhere that fit the 3/4" fine (16) thread of the pilot bearing tool I am using.
Anyway, so I came up this ingenious system of an adjustable tube. Ay least I thought it was ingenious until the first round of tightening came and then it's clear that the threads on the tubing (electrical conduit nipples) are not up to the pressure. So much for adjustable bearing puller and good bye $15!

And, yes, there is a question in here: Those of you who have pulled dual row bearings with the hidden circlip, is this difficulty normal or is my tubing too small? I know that would be a stupid mistake but I can't think of any other possibility. I've measured and centered the tubing so as to reduce the chance that I am pulling against the solid tubing with the bearing nowhere to go but I suppose it is possible.

Just would love to know any of those with any experience pulling this bearing. Again, it's the dual row with the hidden circlip which I assume is more difficult to pop loose than the single row.

Thanks so much...

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1684875979.jpg
The first set up with PVC but I couldn't trust it not to shatter and send shrapnel flying




http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1684876013.jpg
So I upgraded to my patented adjustable bearing puller sleeve but that only crushed the threads and locked it solid.




http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1684876043.jpg
Here are my parts which were good in theory; not so great in application.
Hey, just like the M96 engine! :D






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Quick questions: What size was the nut on the IMS center bolt, and does your engine number contain the letters "AT, X, or Y"?

Pretty sure it has a Y. Second photo shows from a more straight on angle and looks like a Y.




http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1684886276.jpg





http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1684886300.jpg

Bigger pics:



http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1684886529.jpg




http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1684886557.jpg

It is a Y. What size (wrench size) was the nut on the IMS center bolt?

Are you thinking this is a replacement engine with the larger IMS (i.e. larger than case?)

M

Not sure and can't locate that nut at the moment. But here are some pics of the installed nut, IMSB flange and a view of the bearing. It's definitely not a replacement engine and appears to be a dual row bearing.

Bearing in car is labeled as "NSK 6204 DUA 17 Japan"

Is there something else you were trying to determine?


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1684952796.jpg




http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1684952837.jpg



http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1684952876.jpg



http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1684952905.jpg

You may have already seen my IMSB thread here
http://986forum.com/forums/performance-technical-chat/81929-my-ims-bearing-replacement-thread.html
As I remember it the bearing was a hard pull till the retaining spring got pushed out of the way (hence the arms of the puller flexing) then it came out smoothly.

The dual row bearing requires quite a bit of force to get extracted. The pulling force needs to be perfectly lining up with the shaft, or else it will get stuck. Your setup seems a little off to me, make sure the collar sits on the shaft evenly and everything is perfectly centralized. And find something better than that washer, I don`t think that can be aligned too well.

Thanks so much for your link. I have seen and read all of your threads but the ole memory ain't what she used to be and thanks to your link, I now have a part to use as the sleeve/tube for the bearing puller. I'm assuming that's an exhaust tube available from your local auto parts shop? I've run out of tubes to try at Home Depot/Lowe's/Ace/Tractor Supply and I was getting worried.
So thanks for that and for the pic with the part number clearly seen.

Also, what are you using for the threaded part? Because that thread pitch is nearly impossible to find anywhere, local or online. I could only find one bolt locally with enough threads and it is 2.5 inches long. It is long enough to work but just barely. At least I think it is. I'll let you know when and if I ever get this bearing out.

I think my problem may be what I was thinking where I'm pulling against the sleeve instead of inside the sleeve. The IMS bearing tends to sit off center in the case opening so the clearance and tolerance for misalignment is small.

Anyway, off to spend another $10 on that exhaust pipe.

I can't thank you enough for that info!

Yup, I think you're right. Also, the pilot bearing puller tends to go off center which doesn't help and tends to pull the sleeve and the bearing slightly less than perfectly straight.

Unfortunately, it is a factory reman engine; Porsche used three codes for remans, the most common is "AT", but the use of "X" or "Y" were also used to indicate reman, just at a different time frame.

From the photo of the assembled bearing, it is not the third-generation oversized unit, so it is extractable. What you need to do is rent or borrow the correct IMS retrofit tooling from LN Engineering before you damage something expensive to fix. I exclusively use their "Faultless" IMS tooling system, and have for years, works perfectly first time, every time, and works with any version retrofit (single or dual row classic, single row pro, IMS Solution)...............

I have the IMS tool you can rent. I bought one and it turns out I have a replacement engine with the oversized bearing that JFP is referring to. It has never been used as the center bolt was too big for the tool. Unfortunately LN still refused to take returns, so I'm trying to recoup some of the costs. Shoot me a PM and we can discuss details.

The bolt I used is part of a slide hammer kit that I have, it just happens to be the right thread for the puller.

Stay tuned, just bought a used LN Pro Tool Set so hopefully this will work to pull my bearing out....

Ok, got my tools today and removed my IMSB. The LN tool definitely worked better but still not exactly perfect. The hidden circlip was damaged in the extraction and it even damaged the tool! My problem now is where to source the dual row bearing circlip? I've never seen mention of this part; I guess people use the old part. Also, my center bolt is not reliable. It appears to be slightly bent at the narrow part. I do not feel confident in using it again. I was assuming I would need to buy Pelican parts IMS kit just for the center bolt but not sure how to get the circlip for the dual row bearing. Does anyone know?

Oh, and my bearing seems ok except all of the grease is gone and the bearing has motor oil inside. The seals were both in place and solid but I guess the oil eventually forced all of the grease out. The oil inside seemed decent and not horribly old and used but yet the seals were definitely in place. In fact, it was very difficult to remove them! I was unsure of what to do with the new bearing but I think I'm leaning towards removing the seal on the new bearing. Bearing spins smoothly but clicks if I shake it. That might just be since there is no grease left in it but not sure.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1686077134.png


Will this retaining clip work with the OEM bearing? It looks quite wide/deep. The clip that came out of my car is basically a cylindrical wire that fits in the groove on the bearing. It is very thin and basically looks like thin steel wire (see pic below) and the groove in the bearing does not look deep enough to provide the needed clearance when installing the bearing.


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1686077794.jpg




Might be able to use thin wire and make my own but that sounds a bit of a pain and risky.
To those of you who used a new NSK bearing (elgyqc homeoboxter and others,) did you reuse your old circlip?

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No, it won't work, one is a wire clip, the one in your photo is a circlip and way to large to fit between the factory bearing and the tube.

Call Pelican and confirm if the circlip is included in their IMS bearing kit. I'm pretty sure it is. It's been a long time, but I installed two in cars, both of which had come with a dual row bearing originally. The kit will also have an improved center bolt and seal.

Do NOT reuse an old center bolt after you have extracted a bearing with it. They are weakened and are more likely to fail than your bearing was in the first place. (I think JFP and J. Raby advised that a few times in years past).

I think I still have one more slightly used center bolt laying around if you want it. (BUY THE PELICAN KIT!)

Not sure if it's mentioned in videos, but when Burner did his years ago he got a slightly used center bolt from me. Hopefully it's all still good. ;)

http://986forum.com/forums/uploads02...1686081030.jpg

***I looked back at your post and realized I misunderstood. The clip in the Pelican Parts kit does look wider and on the dual row engines holds a spacer in place rather than fitting into a groove in the bearing.

Yes, I reused the original cir-/wire clip, as mine wasn`t damaged. The bearing I used was different from the factory NSK bearing, I actually used two bearings and machined the groove on one of them at the same exact position as the original.

Yes I reused the original clip.

Ah, thanks for that info and that makes sense as the Pelican bearing is single row. And I was planning on buying the pelican kit but now I'm not sure if the center bolt will be compatible with the OEM dual row bearing.

Does anyone know?

Oh, yes, I remember reading your thread now.

Thanks for the reply.

Does anyone have a clip out of their dual row bearing laying around after installing a new bearing? I would love to buy one from someone.

I have a '97 and '01 engine that I can pull the bearings on later this week. Not sure which bearing the '01 has and the flywheel is still on, but there's a good chance I can salvage the clip from the '97.

Hey, thanks a lot, I would appreciate it, that would be great! No rush as I'm just getting started putting this engine back together after a year and a half, argh. And I'm still trying to locate a source for a new ring but the suppliers I found are manufacturers so they don't usually stock or sell these rings individually. Still more research to do.

Hey JFP, have you ever had trouble and destroyed the retaining ring when removing a bearing? Just wondering what went wrong. I thought maybe I did something to the ring when using the homemade tools to extract but I don't think the ring was or could be damaged until it's out of the groove and approaching the extraction tool tube and this never happened until I used the LN tool. I did try to center the tube and to minimize the chance of this happening. Also, I figured the beveled edge of the tube and LN design would avoid any binding. Or maybe the ring was damaged when originally installed; that might explain the trouble I had with the homemade tools. Any ideas? (Just curious at this point....)

We see the dual row wire retainer deformed when the bearing is not pulled straight, you may have done this before you switched to the LN tool. We have never seen one damaged from the factory, only after someone blew the retrofit and flat-bedded the car to us to finish it. As we never reuse them, they just get tossed.

Thanks for that info, makes sense as I was struggling with that first extraction method. Just glad I didn't keep cranking on it as everything else seems ok. It actually damaged the LN tool slightly but that's an easy fix with some light sanding where the tool was damaged.

Hey JFP, when the engine is without the IMSB, is it ok to rotate the engine or can that cause damage to the chains, pulleys or anything else? Mostly just curious although I'm still wondering if I should rotate the engine while the heads are off to inspect each cylinder. The 2 showing at TDC look good with no markings so not sure if it's better to inspect all or just go with what I can see now. (Yes, I know bore scoring starts at the lower end.). And finally, the pistons have a fair amount of flaky carbon that I'd like to remove so rotating engine is better for that process. Thoughts?

Thank you.

If the heads are off, it should be fine; if the heads are on, not so much as these are interference engines and you would not be the first to bend a valve rotating it by hand.................

Yup, heads are off.

When rotating engine without the heads, what about the timing chain gears? I currently have them zip tied to the chain to maintain timing somewhat so that obviously won't work when rotating. I assume it's easy enough to install them back and get the timing right afterwards? And then what about the other ends of the timing chains when rotating, the ends connected to the IMS? Do the chains stay attached without getting caught and grinding? I've never heard mention of any problems so maybe there's no issue.

(Yes, I know I'm overthinking this but better safe than sorry....)

Thanks for the help!

You need to reallocate the cams when doing a rebuild, too many chances that something will be out of wack.