Break-in period
 

I know there have been a few threads about the issue of easy vs hard break-in but I wanted to bring this up again as my Porsche dealership told me to break my Boxster in the hard method and not worry about an easy break-in. I am now at 600 miles and just decided to start the hard break-in today. My salesguy pointed me to this website

http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm

which makes a convincing argument. He also says the oil should be changed rather quickly and with regular petroleum oils, not synthetic, during the break in to properly seat the rings, then change back to synthetics after 1500mi. Also, one thing I did notice today after revving it up to th 5k range was the engine gave off a smell that was very reminicent of the initial week I had the car, which I believe many referred to as the cosmolene burning off. Has anyone else had this same thing happen after their break-in period?

Sorry to drudge up another thread about the break in again.

I've heard that also, I know for a fact that High Performance engines are broken in the same way by using standard oil rather than synthetic oils. I think it goes like this:

1000 miles Change oil and Filter
1000 more miles change oil and filter

Then use synthetic and change oil in regular intervals.

While I am no expert, I have heard that it's not good to go from synthetic to mineral to synthetic oils.

So, the factory filled Mobil 1 is sythetic and you're going to go to mineral and then back again?

I've heard that myth also but it isnt true, The engine is a machine and switching oils from normal oil to synthetic have any ill affects on the motor.

The reason you use regular non-synthetic oils for break-in is cause the standard oils aid in getting the bearings, piston rings and other oil lubricated parts to set into there groves...I think synthetic isnt used in high power application break-ins mainly cause it protects internal engine parts so well that it would take a very very very long time for the engine to break in and the piston rings wont sit well enough in there sleeves.

Why not just follow what Porsche says in the owners manual? Or do you think they know nothing about engines??

Probably a good idea.

Nope not me, I will not leave that factory fill Mobil 1 for 20 K miles regardless. But that's about it for me differing with the owners manual.

I have followed the factory break in pretty religiously for the first 2k miles. Did pop it up to 5 k 5.5 K a couple of times but not much at all.

Car is now approaching 3k miles. The last 1000 have been a blast. Wow different car and I was throughly enjoying the car during the break in.

First real exercise was this last Sunday Palomar Mtn. South grade road just an up and down.

Last time I was up to the telescope was in my 928S4 a couple of years ago. That was fun! The Boxster was very close to a religious experience. It is a great road, traffic was light, beautiful 90 degree day top down. And I ditched my beautiful wife at the casino so no noises from the passenger seat!

Porsche, There is No Substitute.

I find it a bit scary that a Porsche sales guy is giving you advice that contradicts what Porsche actually says. Then again, I generally don't ask a sales guy for mechanical advice any more often than I ask the cable guy for stock tips.

As to the "break in secrets" - yes that has certainly made the rounds on this board. I didn't feel like searching for it to link to - but I'd advise looking it over. In short, however, those "secrets" were basically developed for high rev motorcycle engines.

For me, things are simple: Qualification and motive. Porsche engineers are by far the most qualified to give break-in recommendations about Porsches, and those are summed up in the manual. The only thing that would prevent me from listening to those recommendations would be lack of honesty on their part i.e. if Porsche would somehow benefit from giving me the wrong advice. It's in Porsche's interest to minimize its warranty costs, which is aligned with my interest in having a trouble free ownership. Since our interests are aligned, I have no reason to question their honesty. Hence, I follow the recommended break-in procedure.

Btw, salespeople both lack the qualification AND have questionable motives. It's difficult for a salesperson to recommend the proper break-in procedure to a potential buyer who just flogged that "demo" at 6rpms during the test drive. He wouldn't be selling THAT demo to THAT customer for sure.

Z.

I religiously followed the Porsche break-in period. And then added the extra step of an oil change at the 1,200 mile mark with Mobil 1. I also added a fuel cleaner with Techron during the very early stages of the break-in.

Generally speaking, your dealer is an idiot.

I do like the 1000 mile change idea IF you intend to keep this car for beyond the warranty period.

Otherwise, don't bother.

And change your oil at 7500 intervals IMHO.

Find another dealer if this is indicative of what they know. The "hard break in" theory is nonsense.

Brucelee, I think the "future owner" will see value in this too! So, I did it for my ownership experience (however long that may be) and in mind for the future person who owns my car.

Hi,

The Hard Break-in advice is aimed specifically at engines, but these aren't the only components which break-in. The Transmission, Brakes, Wheel Bearings, Bushings, Shocks, Fuel Pump, Oil Pump, Coolant Pump, Alternator Bearing, etc. all establish wear patterns during this critical period. Easier is better in my experience.

On an engine rebuild, the scenario is different and a Hard Break-in is more appropriate. But you're only dealing with the engine and not the entire unit.

Using Mineral Oil during the break-in was done at a time when Synthetics were thought to be more slippery, which just isn't so with todays better refined organic Oils. Also, it was cheaper to replace.

No one has ever suffered from following the manufacturer's advice on the break-in. Stick with that. I'm not even going to go into what Salesmen do or do not know...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

For me, things are simple: Qualification and motive. Porsche engineers are by far the most qualified to give break-in recommendations about Porsches, and those are summed up in the manual. The only thing that would prevent me from listening to those recommendations would be lack of honesty on their part i.e. if Porsche would somehow benefit from giving me the wrong advice. It's in Porsche's interest to minimize its warranty costs, which is aligned with my interest in having a trouble free ownership. Since our interests are aligned, I have no reason to question their honesty. Hence, I follow the recommended break-in procedure.

Couldn't agree with this more, and for the same reason I have followed and will follow the 20K oil change/service interval. Other 987 owners follow the break-in but not the servicing recommendations, which makes me wonder why they selectively second-guess Porsche engineers.

Ricklin, having a white 06 S myself, I'd be interested in seeing pics of yours with the blue/blue combo. BTW, do you frequent the UTC area at all? I saw a white 987 S getting on the 5 north off of Genessee and am wondering if that was you.

"Couldn't agree with this more, and for the same reason I have followed and will follow the 20K oil change/service interval. Other 987 owners follow the break-in but not the servicing recommendations, which makes me wonder why they selectively second-guess Porsche engineers."

Well, here is a challenge. Run the oil for 20K MILES and then take a small sample and send it to Blackstone labs for analysis. I think this is a $15 charge or so.

Then report back to us. I think you will be literally amazed at what our dear Porsche engineers have been recommending.

To save you some trouble, using M1 0W-40 oil, the UOA I have seen indicate that this oil is SHOT at about 10K miles tops.

That is NOT true of Red Line oil which is likely good for 15K.

But hey, it is your engine.

Goodluck.

"Couldn't agree with this more, and for the same reason I have followed and will follow the 20K oil change/service interval. Other 987 owners follow the break-in but not the servicing recommendations, which makes me wonder why they selectively second-guess Porsche engineers."

The oil interval recommendation is SLIGHTLY different. There IS a reason for Porsche to be recommending longer intervals as that lowers the projected maintenance costs (cost to own) and makes them more competitive in the market. Since shorter intervals don't hurt, many owners decide to alleviate the risk from that slight "interest misalignment" by buying insurance (keeping shorter intervals). Nothing wrong with that.

Z.

Well, here is a challenge. Run the oil for 20K MILES and then take a small sample and send it to Blackstone labs for analysis. I think this is a $15 charge or so.

Then report back to us. I think you will be literally amazed at what our dear Porsche engineers have been recommending.

To save you some trouble, using M1 0W-40 oil, the UOA I have seen indicate that this oil is SHOT at about 10K miles tops.

That is NOT true of Red Line oil which is likely good for 15K.

..umm, what exactly would running your test indicate? In order to be of any value, sampling would have to be done at intervals (say, every 5k), along the way. No doubt the oil degrades but is the degradation at 20k so much more versus 15k, or 10k or 5k to justify an earlier interval? At what point does the oil degradation justify changing it? I'm guessing both Porsche and the engine oil companies have run just a couple of these tests. Since car companies often provide guidelines to protect the consumer from his/her self I'd say the 20k interval is actually understated.

And your response doesn't answer the question posed by z12358. If a shorter interval was required, why wouldn't Porsche simply make that the interval? There's nothing to gain with a shorter interval, no prestige is bestowed on a marque for having the longest oil change interval, nor is there "shame" in a shorter interval. There's only the downside of increased warranty claims, as noted by z. And there's only downside in a long interval for a company trying to sell oil. Yes, M1 wants to be known as a "long lasting oil", but that reputation could be garnered with a 10k interval.

I know you enjoy bashing Porsche on maintenance/reliability but there's little credibility in a Porsche/Oil conspiracy. If there is a conspiracy, Mercedes (my SLK interval is 13k) must be "in on it" too, then.

"...no prestige is bestowed on a marque for having the longest oil change interval, nor is there "shame" in a shorter interval. ..."

Perhaps I wasn't clear enough. Actually, as I said, Porsche DOES gain by recommending a longer interval, as it lowers the perceived cost-to-own (maintenance costs) of their cars in the eyes of potential buyers, thus making them more marketable and competitive. Porsche may have decided that the slight increase in wear (thus increase in warranty claims) is worth that increase in marketability. The equation for the owners is different, as they only care about minimizing wear. Whenever there's such misalignment of interests, it's worth to be more careful and buy insurance (change oil more frequently).

Z.

No conspiracy and no bashing. And my credibility is fine thanks.

Here are several quick points.

1-The point was raised above that Porsche was SOUNDLY criticized for years for the cost of routine maintainence. One way to counter that was to move the period out a bit. On things like spark plugs etc, no big deal.

However, your theory about how you are sure they tested oil quality etc. is just that, a theory. Moreover, Porsche has shown quite clearly that they are really concerned about warranty costs, not ownership costs. The "price" of using shot oil shows up later, not during the warranty period. The price is excess wear.

Re: the oil testing, frankly that has been done to death on Bob is the Oil Guy's website. The oil analysis shows things like wear metals in the oil, additives left in the oil, viscosity retention and the like. These are compared to the oil when new.

Bottom line, if you want to ride say 10K miles with oil that has basically had it, go ahead and do it.

It is scant solace indeed when your Box engine is shot and you comfort yourself that you followed those brilliant engineers recommendations.

Of course, we don't know who made these recommendations, the engineers or the finance VP.

BTW-My service tech admits off the record that the 20 K is bogus.

But hey, it is your car. Risk the 15Grand engine on basis of faith in the factory.

PS- Mobil has recently changed the formula on their Extended Protection oil such that they are not really "fully synthetic." No word on the 0W-40 oil yet but more to follow.

All the more reason to suspect the 20K deal.

20 K NO WAY!!!

I've been running Mobil 1 in everything I own for at least the last ten years. I own a commercial fish boat the cost of a new engine in that would make a Boxster engine look cheap. We run Mobil 1, my partner was not a believer. I said change to Mobil 1 15-50 and just listen to the difference in the motor. He is now converted! We do oil analysis cuz it's a lot of oil. Just change the filter at the service interval. Last oil analysis we were good for another 500 hours at least.

My old Windstar 210k miles on Mobil 1 10 k changes still runs great and does not use oil. And it's the notorious 3.8 liter.

I'll change the Boxster at 7.5 K intervals and not worry about it.

SD987: I'm up in Oceanside don't get the Box down to SD much so wasn't me. I will get some good pics to post, I like the color comb. but it was my wifes good taste. I looked at a 2 tone interior boxster at Pioneer, did you buy yours off the lot? I liked the two tone a lot. We got our's in late June. I will tell the whole story here one of these days with pics.

Thanks for the advice guys. As to whether Porsche or others are more qualified to make recommendations, I will have to take all these recommendations with a grain of salt. As most people do not believe Porsche in their oil change interval, I think the same mentality may be true on soft break-ins. A lot dogma that is in place today is based on experiences from many years ago and ideas which were valid for that technology may not be true today, but is perpetuated because that is the way things were done for so many years. Also, I would like to know where the 4200rpm limit originated from and how that magical number will somehow decrease engine wear as compared to a limit of 5000rpm, or why not limit to 3800rpm to decrease wear even more? I don't claim to know what is right or wrong as to how to break an engine in, but I do think that these long-standing traditions need to be reevaluated every so often to see if they are still valid or merely relics of years long passed.

"As to whether Porsche or others are more qualified to make recommendations, I will have to take all these recommendations with a grain of salt. As most people do not believe Porsche in their oil change interval, I think the same mentality may be true on soft break-ins."

Porsche engineers ARE qualified. No one in their right mind would question that. What MAY be questioned are Porsche's motives behind certain recommendations. The break-in is a no brainer as Porsche doesn't gain anything by being dishonest about it. The oil change interval, on the other hand, is different as Porsche DOES gain by recommending a longer interval than the one it knows to be better for the engine. Thus, the "optimal" interval for Porsche will always be longer than the one that's optimal for me. For oil intervals, there's no question that shorter is better. So buy insurance and do it more often. You can't go wrong with that.

Z.

I would concur with this view.

On the Oil Change issue, I know of NO OTHER can manufacturer in the WORLD that recommends 20K miles for an OCI. A few will use a oil minder and get you to 13-15K or so, but that is it to my knowledge. It is noteworthy that Mercedes is one of those makers and their record of late on longevity is hardly a ringing endorsement.

Moreover as I indicated in a previous post, other than Red Line, I have never seen a used oil analysis that provided comfort beyond say 10-11K miles.

And that was with the OLD M1 formula. The new formula provides even less comfort.

Hi GmanMD, I do not know the break-in procedure for the 986. But for the 987 the RPM recommendation is below the 4,200 range. Maybe this has something to do with the VarioCam. Even though VarioCam is active at all engine speeds and loads.

Perhaps I wasn't clear enough. Actually, as I said, Porsche DOES gain by recommending a longer interval, as it lowers the perceived cost-to-own (maintenance costs) of their cars in the eyes of potential buyers, thus making them more marketable and competitive.

You were clear (but thanks for using small words), however you're overestimating the marketing benefit of the oil-change interval.

I can think of few automobile purchases more impractical than a convertible two-seater, particularly one costing 50-70k. If you were talking a family-toter perhaps, but I suspect the number of 987 buyers whose purchase decision was influenced by a 20k service interval = 0. Especially, since the majority of car buyers don't even crack open the service manual until after the purchase.

As I mentioned before, your theory also doesn't shed any light on why Porsche picked 20k. The marketing benefit could have been achieved by selecting 16k, or 17.5k, and yet they made it 20k. Think the marketing guys said, "hey, let's go with 20k cuz it sounds like alot"? Perhaps, perhaps not. As I said, I suspect 20k is actually understated.

But echoing the obvious point made by Bruce, to each his own. If you want to go with short oil change intervals because, Bob the oil can guy's website says so, or because your uncle Gus maintained his car like that and swore by it, than go for it ! It's your car, your money. If I want to believe that Porsche and Mobil one's engineers think 20k is the appropriate interval for a 3.2 liter engine with 10 quarts of synthetic oil, I fully accept the consequences. I don't think either group is going to convince the other.

Not to put too fine a point on it but M1 never said that it's 0W-40 oil is good for 20K miles. They tell folks to follow their manufacturer's recomendations.

Of course, that way, they are off the hook, as it is Porsche's recommendation.

It IS notable that for its PREMIUM oils, ie the ones that are more expensive than 0-40, they say you can go to 15K MAX.

Again, if you really want to drive around with oil that is OBJECTIVELY shot for say another 8K miles, hey, more power to you.

If you you don't buy my line of reasoning, spend a few bucks and send a sample of that 20K oil to Blackstone.

You may get some religion!

Hi,

7500mi., 15k mi. or 20k mi. - it's your car and your money. No one ever hurt their engine by changing the Oil early.

But, for those in the 20k mi. Club, consider this - that Change Interval assumes Ideal Driving Conditions.

Have a K&N, S&B, True Flow or other gauze type filter (Oiled or Dry)? - Shorten the interval. Live in a dusty (include Expressway driving - terribly dusty environment) or Rural area (or travel through one)? - Shorten the interval. Commute in Stop & Go traffic? - Shorten the interval. Short drives, under 10 mi.? - Shorten the interval. Weekend only driver? - Shorten the interval. Drive fewer than 20k mi. in a year? - Shorten the interval. Live in a Hot Climate? - Shorten the interval. Live in a Mountainous or Hilly region? - Shorten the interval.

No one from Exxon-Mobil, Porsche or even AAA will dispute this. How much should you shorten the Change Interval? Well, it depends on how often or severely you encounter the conditions described above - and we're back to debating...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

Something to keep in mind that over the years the engine design has evolved with different materials and higher quality standards. The old cast iron block and heads are a thing of the past. So much research and development has gone into using the right materials and tolerances combined with varying FEA/CAE and countless tests in dyno labs. The same thing can be said for oil. It's not the same stuff that use to come out of a can that you had to puncture the top with a fancy spout.

I will confirm that when I worked in the dynamometer lab for one of the largest auto manufacturers in the world, most of the new engines had zero problem going to 10,000 miles with non-synthetic oil. This was measured via oil analysis, consumption and various life cycle testing. Do I remember the specific data... no (got out of powertrain as quickly as I could)... but I can confirm that this was the state of oil changes 5 years ago with an OEM...

Disclaimer: When I say engine design this includes the supporting systems and not just the block and heads.

BTW - I change my oil at what I think are reasonable levels. My daily driver is changed at every 3k because I do a lot of stop and go and I use non-synthetic. My Boxster will be changed once a year. Do I need to... probably not but I sleep better at night for some reason.

SD987:
As I mentioned before, your theory also doesn't shed any light on why Porsche picked 20k. The marketing benefit could have been achieved by selecting 16k, or 17.5k, and yet they made it 20k. Think the marketing guys said, "hey, let's go with 20k cuz it sounds like alot"? Perhaps, perhaps not. As I said, I suspect 20k is actually understated.

They had to pick A number. My point is that the equations that they used to come up with that number have variables (marketing, etc.) that I personally don't care for. I only know that those variables will only make the recommended interval longer than what's optimal by my equation -- by how much, I don't know (unknown = risk).

Adding to this MNBoxster's list of varying driving conditions only compounds the risks and the unknowns. Some people take those risks head on and don't buy any insurance -- and many of them may come out financially ahead in the end. For me, the more frequent oil changes are cheap insurance in light of the risks we just discussed.

Z.

An oil change is a great value for the "feel good" factor! Don't you guys feel great when the oil is brand spanking new! Everything just feels better! Kinda like a car wash!! :) Or a fresh coat of wax. Or a.......

I misspoke earlier and I do agree that Porsche engineers are qualified. However, I do find it interesting that everyone is eager to state that the oil change interval is inordinately long but we should accept their break-in advice. Now some of you have pointed to studies that support your claim that oil is shot by 10k or so and with that, I would then agree with you. As a doctor, I am going to have to put this into medical terms: the big push today is what is called "evidence-based medicine" where your practices are in line with PROVEN practices supported by medical literature. You would be surprised how many physicians out there have certain ways of treating conditions that are not in line with the literature, but are based on 1 or 2 cases that went bad (or very good) for them in the past and they changed their practice patterns based on this. What I want to see is evidence that hard break-ins are detrimental to the engine and how they came up with the 4200rpm limit (ie. whether that be from VarioCam kick-in). I do not accept "because they say so" as these recommendations may be holdovers from years past. They have lowered the break-in period from 2k to 1k and that just may be a push towards breaking those old ideas but they cant seem to really "pull the trigger" all at once.

Just my $0.02

Great Thread!!

I think the key to this discussion lies in a couple of the replies.

1. Y.M.M.V. Your mileage may vary. Oil change intervals must be adjusted according to the severity of service.

2. Everything is breaking in, not just the engine. I do believe I will do my transmission fluid as well b4 10 k comes up.

Look at the huge business's (jiffy lube et all) that uses the 3 k interval to drive their business. To me, 3k is a holdover from what, the 1940's or something. Wild guess there but that interval is pretty much BS to me.

Oil's whether they be synthetic or dino have changed and improved by orders of magnitude from the time that the 3K interval was the standard. As has engine construction. Yet somehow the old myth of 3k is still with us.

Our company cars are managed by GE Fleet Services (not the Boxster) and they still recommend a 4,000 mile interval service between oil changes. I would think GE has a LOT of data to suggest this is the best recommendation (risk vs reward). I have seen other fleet services that have a 5,000 interval. So, I don't think that Jiffy Lube is too far off, just a little more aggressive and profit motivated.

"Oil's whether they be synthetic or dino have changed and improved by orders of magnitude from the time that the 3K interval was the standard. As has engine construction. Yet somehow the old myth of 3k is still with us."

Most DINO oils are gone by 3-4K miles, at least as tested.

Most "fake synthetics" like Castrol are gone at 7-*K

M1 usually makes about 11K or so till it is shot.

Red Line normally can make 13-15K tops.

I certainly do not advocate 3K changes with synthetic oil.

This is all a long way from 20K.

Reminder. Porsche is the ONLY manufacturer to make this recommendation. Are we to believe their engines are that different than others?

Hmmmm!

If GE Fleet is using normal DINO oil, I think the 4-5 range is good. Keep in mind, they only really care about costs while they have the car, which is short range.

I assume our Box owners are thinking longer term but who knows?

"You would be surprised how many physicians out there have certain ways of treating conditions that are not in line with the literature, but are based on 1 or 2 cases that went bad (or very good) for them in the past and they changed their practice patterns based on this."

That's not only surpising (to me) but downright scary. Don't MD's study the scientific method and statistics during the 20 or so years they spend in school? I would also periodically (every 4 yrs or so) test EVERY MD on how up to date they are with the latest literature in their field of specialty and medicine in general. Only then they should remain certified to give life/death advice.

To continue your MD analogy, the same way every MD doesn't give out copies to patients of all scientific papers that made him give his recommendation, Porsche engineers don't include all their lab results, equations, and tests in the Porsche manual.

Z.

My mazda dealer just said change the oil every 3k 3 mo when the owners manual says ever 7,500 mi. I think I will stick to the manual. 3k 3 mo seems to be an old standard which some live by to either gain more $$ or out of pure ignorance.

Yes it is scary, that is why you should choose your doctor wisely (and that is a whole other discussion on how to do that). They do get periodically tested but that doesn't necessarily translate into their management of patients. You are correct that those papers aren't given to patients, however, they are available for anyone to read at any time as they are on the web (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi if anyone is interested). And one thing we have seen time and time again, is that ideas need to be revisited when new technology and treatments are available. And many ideas thought of as heretical at one time are now accepted as fact (ie world is flat vs round, etc...) I would love to see if there is any published data about the break in period and how old that data is. I agree with everyone about the oil longevity and people are able to cite studies on those, yet no one has access to or knows of studies done on engine break in.

One thing I think that is overlooked in these discussions is the fact that our cars hold twice as much oil as US cars that recommend 5000 to 7500 mile oil changes for normal service.

Our motors are smaller than V8s, run cleaner, and have twice as much oil, so the additives last longer.