Is auto-temp control good, or a waste of money?

[Rome]

Auto Climate Control is the biggest ripoff among Porsche's many overpriced options...I can't believe they actual charge $550 for this and get away with it...I think it is insulting in a car of this price, even worse than floormats.

Virtually every dealer ordered car has it because it is a tie in with the so called "preferred package".

On the '07 987S I just ordered, I bagged it and ordered a sport steering wheel and crests in the headrests for about the same money. Who needs it in an open top car.

P.S. If you don't order it, the button which usually says "auto" will say "max."

[MNBoxster]

Originally Posted by Rome

Auto Climate Control is the biggest ripoff among Porsche's many overpriced options...I can't believe they actual charge $550 for this and get away with it...I think it is insulting in a car of this price, even worse than floormats.

Virtually every dealer ordered car has it because it is a tie in with the so called "preferred package".

On the '07 987S I just ordered, I bagged it and ordered a sport steering wheel and crests in the headrests for about the same money. Who needs it in an open top car.

P.S. If you don't order it, the button which usually says "auto" will say "max."

Hi,

Basically I agree. I also find it a bit profiteering of Porsche to have offered the Auto as Standard (US Market ONLY - supposedly to create better value/price) for the 986 and to pull it back on the 987 - AMAZING!

As you said, I suspect that 90% of the cars will have this option, primarily due to Dealer Orders, and some Nazi decendant is gonna make a € Bonus because he figured out how to make an additional $550/Unit Sold for basically nothing!

Someone said "more back to basics" - BS! I doubt the Auto system weighs 1 pound more than the standard one and doesn't affect performance 1 iota...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

[z12358]

Originally Posted by MNBoxster

Hi,

Basically I agree. I also find it a bit profiteering of Porsche to have offered the Auto as Standard (US Market ONLY - supposedly to create better value/price) for the 986 and to pull it back on the 987 - AMAZING!

As you said, I suspect that 90% of the cars will have this option, primarily due to Dealer Orders, and some Nazi decendant is gonna make a € Bonus because he figured out how to make an additional $550/Unit Sold for basically nothing!

Someone said "more back to basics" - BS! I doubt the Auto system weighs 1 pound more than the standard one and doesn't affect performance 1 iota...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

Perhaps. perhaps not. You can also look at it this way: By not making the auto-climate standard on 987 they are actually offering more: the option not to have it if you find its cost unjustifiable (which I did). On 986 that option wasn't available so you paid for it (via the base price) whether you wanted it or not. Due to production line issues it may have been more cost efficient for Porsche NOT to offer the optionality on the auto-climate for 986 but to simply include it in all cars. For 987 they may have figured out a cost efficient way to INCLUDE that option, which they did. I don't see how allowing more choices is bad for the buyer.

I never understood "standard" vs "option" arguments saying: "I can't believe this is not standard in this day and age.". It's all the same money. You can either pay it through the base price (if it's standard) or as a separate option. Heck, I wouldn't mind having wheels being optional. Why get the OEMs if I don't really like them and am planning to switch them anyway. Japanese cars (especially Lexus) like to guess what one needs so they package everything standard or offer these mega-packages with options packed and linked together. I prefer freedom to decide for myself, i.e. a la carte.

So I'm happy that the auto-climate wasn't standard, thus making the base price $500 cheaper.

Z.

[Rome]

Originally Posted by z12358

Perhaps. perhaps not. You can also look at it this way: By not making the auto-climate standard on 987 they are actually offering more: the option not to have it if you find its cost unjustifiable (which I did). On 986 that option wasn't available so you paid for it (via the base price) whether you wanted it or not. Due to production line issues it may have been more cost efficient for Porsche NOT to offer the optionality on the auto-climate for 986 but to simply include it in all cars. For 987 they may have figured out a cost efficient way to INCLUDE that option, which they did. I don't see how allowing more choices is bad for the buyer.

I never understood "standard" vs "option" arguments saying: "I can't believe this is not standard in this day and age.". It's all the same money. You can either pay it through the base price (if it's standard) or as a separate option. Heck, I wouldn't mind having wheels being optional. Why get the OEMs if I don't really like them and am planning to switch them anyway. Japanese cars (especially Lexus) like to guess what one needs so they package everything standard or offer these mega-packages with options packed and linked together. I prefer freedom to decide for myself, i.e. a la carte.

So I'm happy that the auto-climate wasn't standard, thus making the base price $500 cheaper.

Z.

This is not really correct...The cost, to Porsche, of making the auto climate control standard is negligible. It is basically a chip which goes into the unit. I suspect the cost of adding that is a very, very small fraction of the $550 charge. To me, this is pure profiteering from a US market which "expects" there to be climate control in a car of this price, so it gets wrapped up in the "mega packages" and people wind up paying $550 without even really knowing it.

When I was spec'ing out my car (chosing options 'a la carte') I had to look at upwards of 30 987's at 4 different dealerships before I found one without auto climate. (I wanted to see what the auto button looked like if you didn't order auto-- sure enough, it just says "max" instead). And, it turned out the the one I found was custom ordered and the buyer pulled out, so the car was still hanging around. Every dealer said they just order on of the mega packages when they are filling their allotment.

[z12358]

Rome, whatever the case, you can't call it "profiteering" which refers to a situation when someone profits from charging exorbitant prices to buyers which -- due to sircumstances -- do NOT have the freedom to refuse the deal.

I prefer the transparency of the a la carte where all prices are there for you to see vs lumping things in as standard. It's a free market, and the buyer has the ultimate freedom to walk away from a deal that doesn't make sense to him. When I talked to dealers, I even told them what options are valuable to me and which ones aren't so most of them were ready to discount those options much more. Anything works in a free market.

My 06 S has the "prefered package" and I don't have the "auto" (I have the "max" button), so they must have included the auto-climate in the pref package for the 07. I agree, most cars I saw when I was looking came with the pref package, but I didn't mind it as it had features I'd have ordered anyway.

Z.

[Rome]

Originally Posted by z12358

Rome, whatever the case, you can't call it "profiteering" which refers to a situation when someone profits from charging exorbitant prices to buyers which -- due to sircumstances -- do NOT have the freedom to refuse the deal.

I prefer the transparency of the a la carte where all prices are there for you to see vs lumping things in as standard. It's a free market, and the buyer has the ultimate freedom to walk away from a deal that doesn't make sense to him. When I talked to dealers, I even told them what options are valuable to me and which ones aren't so most of them were ready to discount those options much more. Anything works in a free market.

My 06 S has the "prefered package" and I don't have the "auto" (I have the "max" button), so they must have included the auto-climate in the pref package for the 07. I agree, most cars I saw when I was looking came with the pref package, but I didn't mind it as it had features I'd have ordered anyway.

Z.

I do understand free market economics...but there is no doubt Porsche is seizing upon impulse buyers who just buy what is in stock, which I suspect is a very high percentage of the market. This is nothing new in the car business. Personally I enjoy spec'ing the car and give a lot of thought to which options I want to order.

Interestingly, when I spec'd my Cayenne S (which is my daily driver), I ordered a lot of high end options (Full Leather, Nav, Bose, Xenons...and yes...auto climate), BUT I cut out 2 of the convenience package items which you see in almost every Cayenne-- one was the auto dim interior lights (which was something like $500) and the other was the seat memory (also like $500+). If you look at those "packages"-- and they change the names and groupings all the time based on their parts inventory-- it always seems like there are one or two things in there which are totally unnecessary and/or way overpriced (at least to me). Like you, I think it is far better, and more fun, to just order a la carte (and I actually like the anticipation of waiting to see my creation).

P.S. You might be right about '07...or it might be called the "convenience package" (there are a few different named packages) which includes the auto climate...not sure...which might explain why it wasn't in your car.

[MartinJ]

It is only usefull with the top up.

Buying options is and always will expensive with Porsche just the priice of entry.

It is still an option on the 07 987.

[z12358]

Rome, just a clarification. I got mine from stock in May. Just couldn't imagine not having it for the summer but probably (and by a very slight decision margin) would have waited and ordered an 07 had I known about the impending 3.4L engine update.
Z.

[MNBoxster]

Originally Posted by z12358

Rome, whatever the case, you can't call it "profiteering" which refers to a situation when someone profits from charging exorbitant prices to buyers which -- due to sircumstances -- do NOT have the freedom to refuse the deal.

I prefer the transparency of the a la carte where all prices are there for you to see vs lumping things in as standard. It's a free market, and the buyer has the ultimate freedom to walk away from a deal that doesn't make sense to him. When I talked to dealers, I even told them what options are valuable to me and which ones aren't so most of them were ready to discount those options much more. Anything works in a free market.

My 06 S has the "prefered package" and I don't have the "auto" (I have the "max" button), so they must have included the auto-climate in the pref package for the 07. I agree, most cars I saw when I was looking came with the pref package, but I didn't mind it as it had features I'd have ordered anyway.

Z.

Hi,

I think that you're getting wrapped up in semantics here. You cite Freedom, but this can be broadly or narrowly defined. You have the Freedom to walk away from the deal - to play or not play. That's a very narrow choice. You're also losing sight of the fact that this was a Standard Feature on US Market Cars from '97-'04 (maybe '05? not certain). I'm not sure your arguement about it having been included in the MSRP of the car is necessarily valid, because the 987 MSRP is higher than the 986, and at least in terms of Climate Control, you get less.

When establishing an MSRP, it's not a process simply the summing up of all the components at Retail pricing. The Market sets the target for MSRP. The Manufacturer plays with the margin of individual components to match this target MSRP, so you're most likely not paying retail for a Standard Feature either.

If you want to talk freedoms, you are only free to choose those options which Porsche makes available. You have no freedom to order the car with an M96/05 (3.6L) engine for instance. So your freedom(s) are fairly limited, take what they offer or walk away, not too much choice here.

Boxster sales have been declining every year since the '01 Model worldwide and in the US. I suspect this fact has more to do with making Climate Control an option, a sort of Get it While You Can mentality, than concern for the freedom or choices of the Buyer...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

[z12358]

Originally Posted by MNBoxster

Hi,

I think that you're getting wrapped up in semantics here. You cite Freedom, but this can be broadly or narrowly defined. You have the Freedom to walk away from the deal - to play or not play. That's a very narrow choice. You're also losing sight of the fact that this was a Standard Feature on US Market Cars from '97-'04 (maybe '05? not certain). I'm not sure your arguement about it having been included in the MSRP of the car is necessarily valid, because the 987 MSRP is higher than the 986, and at least in terms of Climate Control, you get less.

When establishing an MSRP, it's not a process simply the summing up of all the components at Retail pricing. The Market sets the target for MSRP. The Manufacturer plays with the margin of individual components to match this target MSRP, so you're most likely not paying retail for a Standard Feature either.

If you want to talk freedoms, you are only free to choose those options which Porsche makes available. You have no freedom to order the car with an M96/05 (3.6L) engine for instance. So your freedom(s) are fairly limited, take what they offer or walk away, not too much choice here.

Boxster sales have been declining every year since the '01 Model worldwide and in the US. I suspect this fact has more to do with making Climate Control an option, a sort of Get it While You Can mentality, than concern for the freedom or choices of the Buyer...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

I assume by MSRP you mean Base Price (BP). Whether auto-climate came standard or not in 986 or 987 is still irrelevant. If the BP of the 987S + $500 for the auto-climate is too much of a difference from the BP of the 986S (with the auto-climate included) given the design and performance improvements, then by all means refuse to pay it and walk away.

We can get philosophical here... The freedom to walk away is as much freedom you will ever get in a market of free agents. No one is going to offer you more freedom and options (all worth $) than neccessary to win your business. And whoever loses your business because he miscalculated and did not throw in a "free" coffee, cookie, auto-climate, or whatever, then he will be out of business, and he won't have that problem anymore.

My point is, things are the way they are because the market forces found an equilibrium there -- and not because someone is bad, stingy, greedy, or profiteering.

Z.