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I just checked the codes and it is now showing the p1341 along with a cylinder 1 and 2 missfire code... at idle both bank 1 and 2 are showing actual camshaft values of .000 or .033 and they are both the same but it still has a lumpy idle....

It may make sense to replace the Cam position sensor at this point.
I hate to just replace parts trying to fix a problem but diagnosing a problem via the internet is um rather difficult.
I don't think the Cam sensor is expensive, the code is referencing it so at this point I would change it out and see what happens.

Poor lumpy idle can also indicate a major vacuum leak.
Keep us posted.

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Lets see what your cam deviation shows after you change out the cam sensor.

Then I will describe a way to use your Durametric to test your MAF sensor. Faulty MAF can cause lumpy idle.
But I will tell you how to test it after we see if the new Cam sensor cures the problem.

Sounds good, I will order a new camshaft position sensor right now, and I believe the bank 1 sensor is below the air oil separator so Ill use it as an opportunity to replace that since i experience smoky startups sometimes!
thanks for the help, ill report back once i do the swap!

Good luck.

Its quite odd, Even though I got the engines timing right when I first start the car in the morning it runs great. idles amazing, but right when the car warms up the lumpy idle begins. I checked the camshaft deviations at idle after a long drive and camshaft position 1 deviation was at 19.23 degrees and camshaft position 2 was at -6.25, meanwhile their actual angles was 1= .33 and 2= -.13. Given this information is it possible the variocam actuator and solenoid I was sold was a dud and its sticking when activated which explains the car idling great sometimes but like trash other times, and I assume the following missfire codes are the car adjusting fueling to compensate for the bad timing leading to a missfire. What i do know is when I hit the gas the car revs smooth and goes like a boxster should. I know in the future i was planning on replacing my 116,000 mile old ims bearing and also replacing the trans fluid in the tiptronic so maybe I should just drop this engine for an overhaul? I dont know what to do at this point ive alredy taken off the passenger camshaft cover off 4 times becuase the first time I used too much sealant and the plugs popped out, the 2nd time a bolt broke and i had to take everything apart to extract it, and now I am guessing the worst that my "new" camshaft actuator/solenoid are garbadge and I have to redo the whole project.

Start with the easy stuff first.
Lumpy idle can very frequently be traced to the MAF. ESPECIALLY when, as you describe, it's fine when cold. But when the motor warms and it kicks out of the pre-programmed cold start settings and starts using sensors to determine settings then it gets rough..... yeah.... in my world that points to MAF all day long.

AND it's easy to check. When your idle gets rough, unplug your MAF and see if it smooths back out.

Always easy stuff first.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

Unplugging your MAF senor to check MAF sensor condition is not a very reliable test of the MAF sensor.
Yes it seems to work if your sensor is bad.
But by unplugging it your not really testing it.

What if you have a vacuum leak?
A vacuum leak can cause lumpy idle, it is a lean condition due to the unmetered air.
When you unplug the MAF the DME reverts to a default fueling strategy based mostly on engine load and RPM.
That default fueling strategy is biased on the rich side which tends to compensate for the lean condition so the car idles and runs rather well with a vacuum leak and the MAF unplugged.
Plug the MAF back in or replace it now the car again idles lumpy because in this case it was a vacuum leak.
So now in this case you have spent what? over $200.00 on a new MAF sensor and not fixed the lumpy idle.

Much more reliable ways to test the MAF.
Fuel trims and comparing Throttle Position Sensor signal to MAF sensor signal are two means.

Odd situation.
Have you replaced the Cam position sensor on bank 1 yet?
When you replaced the Cam actuator/solenoid did you check to see if there were the proper number of chain links between timing marks on the Cams?

+1 on checking the sensor. If the actuator was bad, that shouldn`t affect cam deviation much, only the actual cam angle. If you are in doubt regarding the actuator and solenoid, you can directly inspect them using a borescope. But it`s more likely that something is off with your sensor or timing.

you're not wrong on any of that, Blue, but I feel like you're barking up a tree which doesn't get much attention because it's so uncommon.

As you say; there are ABSOLUTELY more reliable ways to positively-test a MAF, but none as easy to narrow-down what's going on. Basic Troubleshooting 101 says see if you can produce a change in the symptoms. If unplugging the MAF produces a change in symptoms, then you are one step closer to understanding what's REALLY going on.

We're chasing cam solenoids and timing, without (seemingly) to have checked some of the (honestly more likely) easy and cheap items.

Vacuum leaks are VERY common, of course; but how many of them will show up only during closed-loop, or open-loop? Most of them will be causing the same issue regardless.

Again; y'all can chase whichever squirrels you like, but the OP asked for some suggestions. I'm simply suggesting that the easiest and cheapest things shouldn't be overlooked in favor of something more complex, for no apparent reason. Especially when the more complex things have been checked and seem to be correct.

:cheers:

There is a little dimple on each camshaft. I used white nail polish to mark the chain link to each dimple on the intake and exhaust camshaft so that when i cut the zip tie holding tension on each camshaft the tension pushed the cams apart but they were still in time. The dots lined up. I reassembled the engine then I did not install the oil scavenge pump, rather I put the camshaft not crankshaft in time, used the IMS camshaft locking tool to hold the bank one camshaft in top dead center timing, then i loosened the 4 bolts on the pullet on the side of the motor and turned the crankshaft to top dead center, inserted a dowel pin on the timing mark then tightened the 4 camshaft sprocket bolts. then i proceeded to reinstall the scavenge pump, removed the ims tool and completed the job. I believe that that is the proper way to time these engines as demonstrated in a thread i read on timing the m96. I have not had a chance to replace the camshaft position sensor, I am still waiting on the package I ordered a few days ago it should be in soon and ill put it in asap. I have previously cleaned my mass airflow sensor, I have not done anything other than a visual inspection for vacuum leaks. nothing is blatantly torn or ruined. Ill do a smoke test if the camshaft position sensor doesn't fix the issue. Im just wondering , if it was a vacuum leak why would the car specifically complain with a p1341 code rather than a generic missfire code. Later today Ill pull off the maf connector and report on what happens as well. and I forgot to mention, the car has no cracked ignition coils they visually look great and it has brand new spark plugs. and its fuel economy has been TRASH averaging 12.6 mpg thereabouts.

So first:
It is very hard to diagnose a problem via the internet.
Second: It can be very hard to fix a problem that is diagnosed by well meaning people via the internet.
Multiple people will have different points of view on the problem and how to fix it.
As another poster has said simplest things first.

Lumpy idle is an indication of a vacuum leak.
So is stalling out when coming to a stop.
You have both symptoms so I suggested the possibility of a vacuum leak.
Simple and basic.

But you also have the P1341 code which is a Cam position sensor or cam position related code.
Bad Cam position sensor or bad Cam timing can also cause lumpy idle stalling at stops and poor fuel mileage
So in another post I suggested checking the Cam position sensor and its related wiring.
If I remember correctly you found issues with the cam actuator so you replaced it.
But you still have Cam deviation issues. Bad Cam position sensor or wiring (simple and basic) or bad Cam timing (not so basic) are all I can think of as causes.

The P1341 along with the Cam deviation issue is to me the most telling they are why I brought up Cam timing.
But I would change out the Cam sensor first and see what happens. Simple and basic.

So those are my reasons for my suggestions

God I hope I made some sense here. LOL

no you made perfect sense, and im extremely grateful for all the input. Ill do a visual inspection of all the wiring, along with the maf and vacuum leak test while I wait for my cam position sensor to come in. once it comes in ill report back on more findings. Sorry if I am being hard to explain to perhaps im a tad frustrated at my car haha.

Maytag,
I agree with some of what your saying.:D
If you have ever read any of my previous posts I very often suggest that a person check and prove good or bad the simplest things first and work their way up the diagnostic ladder step by step from simplest to most complex.

I first started trying to help Kbod in another thread that addressed the same issue he is describing in this thread.
In both threads he has stated that he gets a reoccurring P1341 code. Bank 1
Lumpy idle after warmup and stalling at stops.
He also has excessive Cam deviation on Bank 1

Vacuum leaks are very simple and basic and can cause lumpy idle and stalling.
That is why I mentioned Vacuum leaks to Kbod.
Many time they only cause lumpy idle and stalling after warmup. Why?
Because on cold start open loop the DME is providing a very rich mixture with no feedback from the O2 sensors. Tends to compensate for the unmetered air from the vacuum leak, so the car may idle just fine.. Once the system warms up and goes into closed loop the mixture leans out and becomes too lean at idle because of the vacuum leak. So you may get lumpy idle warmed up but not on cold start.

What I first suggested to Kbod was to check for any wiring issues related to the Cam position sensor on bank 1
Why? The P1341 code.
Checking the wiring and testing the Cam position sensor would be my starting point.
I don't know how to go about testing a Cam position sensor. So I suggested replacing it.
Seemed the simplest, most basic most logical and cheapest to me.
I mentioned Cam timing because Kbod had replaced the Actuator on bank 1.
and still has the issue.
Not sure how I am barking up the wrong tree.The P1341 code gives a good tree to bark up:D
As for the MAF sensor and vacuum leaks, which either could cause the lumpy idle.
I told Kbod I can tell him how to test both the MAF and possibly for vacuum leaks with his Durametric after we see what affect changing the Cam position sensor has.
Although I don't think the MAF or vacuum leaks are the issue.

Not sure what squirrels I am chasing.:D But I could be, very hard to diagnose an issue via the internet.

To test out the camshaft position sensor he could just swap it with the other bank`s and see if the error code moves. As far as I can recall they are interchangable.

Honestly., Blue, you're kinda my hero right now. I look at how much time you're spending trying to help and I think to myself "now there's a guy trying to get into Car-Heaven" or wherever car-saints go to. :cheers:

The amount of effort you've put in here is MUCH greater than my own "dive bomb" effort to spread too little too late. haha.

I'll bow immediately to your logic and reasoning, 'cuz it's right on target, near as I can tell.

And you're so right: diagnosing over the internet is iffy at best.

Happy New Year!!

Being old, single, retired, and a car nut I have time to try to help others.
I have always had an interest in things mechanical.
When the computer age came along it changed automobiles in many ways.
The DME/ECU and the OBDI and OBDII systems came along and I was lost.

What do you mean I can't adjust the timing:eek: Multiport fuel injection:eek:
Check engine light???? P-Codes????WTF?????
So I have had to try and learn what I could about those things.
It's car stuff right:D:D

Part of learning is trying to help others and getting their feedback on results.
Another part of learning is having people like you question or comment on my advice to others. Makes me go back and think about my approach.;)

Yes diagnosing via the net is hard.
I don't have the car before me.
I can't see it, touch it, feel it, smell it, hear it, taste it, talk to it, and it can't talk to me. So ya it's hard:D:D:D:D
Take care.

Words can not describe how grateful I am for all the help blue has given me thus far . honestly. Today I brought the car in and Replaced the factory stereo with a nice apple carplay unit (I know fix the engine then do upgrades...oopsie) and I also unplugged the mass air flow sensor and Wow it ran like extra crap. extra lumpy, extra rich, extra terrible. It's safe to say I don't think the car has a vacuum leak or a broken mass airflow sensor. My new camshaft position sensor came in but i'm waiting on my air oil separator to also come in since the cam position sensor is below the oil separator and mine is shot. Ill post a quick update when I get it replaced on if it fixes the car and if it doesn't fix the car what my deviations/actual angles are.

When I do the camshaft position sensor Ill also remove the lower camshaft rubber plug and check/repeat the timing process just incase.

Glad to try and help just hope I have in some small way;)
Hoping the Cam position sensor is the issue:)
Keep us posted I always like to hear results.

Ok, I think I made some progress today, I removed the AOS and replaced the cam position sensor but when putting the car back together I realized the skinny coffee straw looking vacuum hoses are all missing and just disconnected and screwed up. As to why there is a spiderweb of skinny fragile hoses in a porsche is beyond me. But I didn't put the car back together as this seems like a lead into why my car is running like crap. do you know what part number it is for all those really skinny vacuum hoses along with a routing diagram or maybe just a complete upgrade as my car clearly did have some sort of air injection leak. I am hoping I could replace those little hoses and then put on my new AOS, check the timing and if it all works.. well.. im not gonna get excited yet. Also I am going to have to replace a couple of the big vacuum hoses as they were brittle and snapped when i removed them,

edit! I just ordered a new crankcase breather hose and 4mm silicone hoses with a bunch of 3/16 fittings, once they come In I will replace all of the skinny little vacuum hoses, then put the car back together and check timing. If even after that It still runs bad i will report back on deviations etc, Im just wondering, if it was an air leak why would the car put a p1341 instead of... maybe an air leak code!!! darn it porsche you are driving me insane

Do the hoses go to the SAI? Secondary air injection system?
Did you get any codes??
I think there is a diagram of the SAI here on the forum. Should be able to find it using search.

I found some diagrams, yes the hoses are for the secondary air injection system but there were no codes present other than the p1341... along with the generic missfire code after a while of driving

Well that is interesting I would have expected SAI related codes as well as the P1341 code.
If you have access will doing the other work you should check that entire SAI system over.
There is an Air change over valve, a electric vacuum switching valve, a non return valve, and a vacuum reservoir.
an issue with anyone of them and you have constant SAI related codes.
Keep us posted;)

Ok! im back. After waiting a long time for a new hose to be shipped out today I finished all the vaccum hoses and put the car back together. started it up and for the first 10 seconds it ran good but promply went back to not running good. at idle (when it was running lumpy) the camshaft 1 actual angle was 14.64 degrees, and the camshaft 2 angle was -7.83 degrees, when I revved the engine to 3k rpm it instantly changed to camshaft 1 being -11 degrees and camshaft bank 2 being 16.61 degrees. then I let off the gas and it went back to the origional 14 and -7.

So what does that leave me at?

Have you cleared the P1341 code?
Does it come back?
Has Camshaft Deviation on bank 1 changed from the previous 19 degrees????

I cleared the codes, there are no codes currently. what happens is i clear the codes and drive the car with its lumpy idle, and it may or may not stall in drive at a red light or stop and when the idle drops really low the check engine light comes on, i bring it home and I get the p1341 code. As of yesterday when I ran the engine the camshaft deviations were at 0, maybe I need to drive it for those to register.

the car runs good at 1,000 rpm and above

Take the car on a good 20-30 minute drive so everything is evenly warmed up then take the Camshaft deviation readings. Let us know what they are.
If the P1341 code does not come back then the timing issue is most likely resolved.
If you get the P1341 code again and Cam deviation is out of range then you still have a timing issue.
If the Camshaft deviations are good and no return of the P1341 code then you need to start looking at the lumpy idle issue.
Could be a MAF issue or vacuum leak issue. Looking at O2sensor signals and short and long term fuel trims are a means to tell if it is a vacuum leak or a bad MAF.

Go to Youtube and look up ScannerDanner find his videos on identifying Vacuum leaks using fuel trims. also his vids on MAF sensors. From those vids you will see how to use your Durametric to test to see if you have a vacuum leak or a bad MAF. Seeing him do it will be better then me trying to explain it.

There a number of various valves and hoses along with carbon canister and vacuum canister under vacuum in both the Secondary Air Injection system and the Evap system. From the way you describe your lumpy idle issue (as if the issue is being triggered after warmup). My guess is your problem is in the Evap system or Secondary Air Injection system. Vacuum leaks often don't happen in those systems until a valve is actuated then the vacuum leak occurs. (Sounds like your issue). Because of this Vacuum leaks in these systems can be hard to find because thy don't always show up with something like a smoke test. So you have to go over each system step by step. Part by part.

Hope this is of some help.

I just took the car on a drive, it still idles like absolute trash and stalls at some red lights :( I got the camshaft deviations, position 1 is 14.25 and position 2 is -6.19.

I don't know if this is related but ever since I got the car not only its fuel economy is absolutely horrendous, every time i put gas in it it doesn't want to start right after at the fuel station and I have to floor it while finessing it to get it to run, after its fine though.

So the not starting when you refill points to an issue with the EVAP system.
Now that I have that information I believe your lumpy idle is also related to an issue with the EVAP system.

Not sure of the exact layout but there should be a main vacuum hose to the EVAP system connected to your intake.
Find that main hose then pinch it off and see if your lumpy idle changes. you can also hook up your Durametric and watch your fuel trims and O2 signals. If you have a vacuum leak in the EVAP system you will be showing positive fuel trims and low voltage from your O2 sensors. When you pinch off the hose your fuel trims will change as well as your O2 signals. O2 voltage will start to increase and then switch normally. fuel trims will slowly come down.
If there does prove to be an issue with the EVAP system start with the purge valve and work from there.

Your Camshaft deviation is also still an issue sorry to say.
My guess is that much deviation is directly related to the poor fuel economy.
fuel trims on bank 1 are probably always at near max positive no matter the RPM range.
Just a guess on my part concerning fuel economy.

welp. I tried to put a clamp on the evap hose and I tried clamping numerous hoses and the car didn't care. Runs lumpy and barely struggles to stay running, If i disconnected a vacuum line it just stalls. smells extremely rich upon startup, For the camshaft deviation ill probably just fiddle a teeny bit with the timing, not that hard. but for the lumpy terrible idle I have no idea whats causing it or how to fix it. is my camshaft deviation enough to cause this? I don't know. I assume the car not starting after putting fuel is its own isolated issue with the evap system. I am going to purchase a smoke kit to overall see if there are any big vacuum leaks that are causing this. I checked the codes, cylinder 1 2 and 3 missfire along with the p1341... how weird....

Your lumpy idle is most likely caused by a combination of the Camshaft deviation range and an issue with the EVAP system.
The missfires are due to the Camshaft Deviation being so far out of spec.

As to the Camshaft Deviation I would try to fix that first. Seems like you are a tooth off or a link off in your set up.
Your actuators for the Variocam system seem to be working ok now as when you rev to 3000 RPM you get a change of 25 degrees of actual cam angle. So that is right on spec.
So it is a timing issue, not an actuator issue.
I would Concentrate on getting the Camshaft deviation correct on bank 1. because you have The Camshaft Deviation numbers to view that tell you if it is fixed or not.
Then the other issues will be easier to find and correct.

Yes the issue with not starting after refill is caused by a problem with the EVAP system. I believe your EVAP issue is also "part" of your lumpy idle issue.

this is going to sound stupid but I went and the ims locking tool fit really good on the notch in the cam so I dont really know how the timing could be that far off... nevertheless it clearly is, should i adjust the camshaft a little bit clockwise or counter clockwise based on my current deviations to correct it?

How many chain links do you have between timing marks on the two camshafts?

Go to the thread titled " Vario cam issues" on post 48 on the second page you will see a picture of the cams. If you look close you will see the timing mark on each cam and you will be able to count six links between the timing marks.

Are you positive there are six links between cam timing marks?????

A link off is all I can think to be your issue as everything else seems ok.

If your tool just locks into one cam the only way you know the other cam is right is to have the proper number of chain links between them.

I specifically remember when I took apart the camshaft tensioner, I used white nail polish on the dimple on the gear and its corresponding chain link. when i put it back together It all lined up with my paint marks. I did notice that my ims locking took does have a bit of play even when it is "locked" which is why I want to just adjust my camshaft a tad, I just don't know if i should nudge it clock wise or counter clock wise, do my deviations say what direction it is off in?

deviations are usually stated in positive or negative form.
So I would think advanced would be positive and retarded negative.

I just did a little reading on how the cam timing is set up on these engines.
I see where your going with the attempt to "adjust the cams, makes sense.
If your cams have the four bolt setup on the sprocket, timing could have "slipped there at some point.
You just have to figure out which direction to go.

Keep us posted on the results.

Went back and spent 5 hours adjusting the timing yet again. when i started the car it sounded really good but after 20 seconds... yep. back to bad. I took it on a drive and it settled in at 7.4 for deviation 1 and -6.5 for deviation 2, both variocam actuators are doing their job aswell at -.29 for bank 1 and .09 for bank 2 actual values at idle. the biggest thing is when i take it on a test drive if i hit the brakes hard when the car comes to a stop it dies, I have to slow down sooooo gently then the idle drops really low and shoots up to keep the car allive. checked the codes, same 123 missfire and p1341

wow this car really doesn't want to work :/

You have the cam deviation on bank 1 down interesting that it still throws the code and missfires.