Fascination With Air-Cooled Porsches

[BoxMann]

Sorry, not a Boxster question, but it has always puzzled me why there is such fascination and enthusiasm for the earlier air-cooled Porsche's. It's certainly reflected in resale prices when compared to later model year water cooled Porsche's. I figure the Boxster community would know the answer.

Thank you.

[mikefocke]

I figure it is the toys of our youth that we didn't have then that we now can have. Plus the idea of "classic".

Every time I watch a Mecom auction show I marvel at the prices some cars are going for, many I wouldn't want if you gave 'em to me.

I must be old but somehow I have to think that some of those prized collectables will fade from popularity. I think of Lionel trains. Who today among the next generation is going to want them. I remember a guy in the neighborhood who had a whole basement full of 8 foot tall racks of boxed cars and engines. But would my grandson want them today?

Would my grandkids want a '57 Chevy big block? So when my generation passes...

[BoxMann]

Originally Posted by mikefocke

I figure it is the toys of our youth that we didn't have then that we now can have. Plus the idea of "classic".

Mike,

I'm not even talking about the classics from the 60's and 70's. I'm looking at the 993 vs the 996. Noticeable price drop in the 996, even though it's a lot newer.

[Deserion]

The 996s were made in higher volumes, first of the major transition cars. Crude remarks are still given to the 996, especially the earlier cars over the amber lights.

When you look at the 993 it signifies the end of the aircooled, hand-built cars. None will ever be built like them again. The water cooled 911s are superior in every metric, but fall short in “purity” and rawness.

Do recall that the 964s were once regarded as the ugly stepchild of the 911s. Not classic like the G Series, not fresh like the 993s. Today the 964s are commanding higher prices in general than the 993s.

[Qingdao]

Originally Posted by BoxMann

Mike,

I'm not even talking about the classics from the 60's and 70's. I'm looking at the 993 vs the 996. Noticeable price drop in the 996, even though it's a lot newer.

I don't here of as many 993 engine failures relative to 996...

In Porsche's defense they had just started messing around with liquid cooling on a boxer engine for a production car.

For the life of me I cannot understand why they went from a journal bearing to a sealed bearing for the IMS? Like what was the benefit?


But all that engine stuff aside. The air cooled models, if nothing else, look a hell of a lot better IMPO.


Also, I think its already been said I think they made more liquid cooled cars so supply and demand.

[986 Boxster]

Some of it has to do with what mikefocke said, " toys of our youth that we didn't have then that we now can have". The 993 is the one Porsche purist real want as the last air-cooled Porsche. For me it`s the 930 turbo, and I would love to have one someday. It was the very first Porsche that I drove as a teenager working at a garage as a summer student. Would I buy one if I had the money? Probably not, I would probably get something newer with more power and better handling.

[Quadcammer]

I have a 993tt and its just a different experience. It has old world charm that you just dont get with the new stuff, at the cost of dealing with assemblies that are not quite modern in how they are installed. The 986 though feels similar ins size and agility and may even have better steering feel. Once you spend some time behind the wheel of an air cooled car, you'll know if its for you or not

[Seadweller]

I've owned two air-cooled Porsche's, a '78 911 SC and an '85 Carrera Targa. I'll without question own another someday. It's hard to explain the experience of driving one, and for me, it pretty much stands out above any car when it comes to pure fun factor. I have to say, prices now are ridiculous.

My dream car is the '94 3.6 Turbo. I should have bought one when they were in the $60's. While the 996 is Porsche through and through, it's ugly as homemade sin. Sorry. They will not see the appreciation that the air-cooled cars have seen, with the exception of the Turbo. The only 996 I'd consider would be a Turbo or 4S. I could never own a base 996.

[BYprodriver]

I never cared anything about aircooled Porsches because they are so slow & cramped inside. In 2000 I got a job test driving new Porsches & I loved the new Porsches. I finally got to drive a 1986 Turbo-look Porsche to deliver back to Stefanie Powers. I couldn't believe how hard it was to shift the manual 5-speed gears, & lack of low RPM torque. I wouldn't trade my 2000 Boxster S for anything air-cooled, Or any 987.

[sharper410]

Historically Porsche was an air-cooled sports car manufacturer and some people like sticking to the roots of the company. Water cooled, to some, is blasphemy but technologically it makes sense. I think the SUVs and sedans have taken away from the mystique of Porsche even more so than water cooling has. Given that, my 914 with its 3.5l air-cooled 6 is noticeably quicker than my Boxster. But the Boxster is much more "civilized" and easier to drive.

[A8ked]

As stated in a previous post, it's "a toy of my youth" that I can now afford.
For me it's more like a fantasy from my youth! I spent decades modifying and driving Beetles pretending in my youthful mind that they were almost 911's.

The sound and feel of an air cooled rear engine 911 is a special kind of music for some of us!

[BoxMann]

Originally Posted by BYprodriver

I wouldn't trade my 2000 Boxster S for anything air-cooled, Or any 987.

Curious, why not a 987? Especially a 987.2

[maytag]

Interesting thread.
Here's an additional perspective:

In the '80's, I drove some of the newish models and was do disenchanted that it turned me off to Porsche for 3 decades. I've been a harsh critic of what Porsche thinks a good handling car feels like for a long time, based on those '70's and '80's air cooled Porsches. It seemed that Porsche wanted to simply continue to update their flawed design for all those years. Truly; you could walk me through a paddock and I wouldn't be able to tell a 70's 911 from a 90's 911, because Porsche was hell-bent on providing the same old P.O.S. to the world, and the masses just kept eating it up and raving about it.
Or so I thought.

Then I drove the 986 (a car I had dismissed along with everybody else), and couldn't quit giggling. I realized then that I was wrong, and needed to open my eyes a little bit. Since then, I've driven some fantastic Porsches, from Cayman GT4's to a GT3RS, and some other tasty things in between. Fantastic cars.

They still don't tick the box for me, emotionally. They don't feel particularly "special". They're very good at what they do, but there's little emotion involved in it.

And the air-cooled cars? Still terrible. Horrible, poor-performing buckets of "#metoo" for the academia-types (with patches on the elbows of their tweed blazers) who wouldn't know a good-performing car if it stood up and spoke Italian to them.

[BoxMann]

Maytag,

Your post made me smile !!

[JayG]

Originally Posted by sharper410

Historically Porsche was an air-cooled sports car manufacturer and some people like sticking to the roots of the company. Water cooled, to some, is blasphemy but technologically it makes sense. I think the SUVs and sedans have taken away from the mystique of Porsche even more so than water cooling has. Given that, my 914 with its 3.5l air-cooled 6 is noticeably quicker than my Boxster. But the Boxster is much more "civilized" and easier to drive.

and the 914 is much lighter than a 986

[Qingdao]

TBH I'd love an air cooled model. BUT the price keeps me 10 000 feet away. Not the initial price; that I almost understand. Its the upkeep that is insane. Thats why I drive a VW. Quirky funny to drive (not a performer), but just a smelly nitty gritty machine. A machine that I might add costs pennies to re-finish. And EVERY city in the world is gonna have parts for it. Normal people can't daily drive an air cooled Porsche properly to work everyday as I do with my VW.

[BYprodriver]

Originally Posted by BoxMann

Curious, why not a 987? Especially a 987.2

For starters as Dr.Porsche said: "Add lightness",987's are heaver & bigger,& there's more gadgets inside to distract you. 986 is more like a go cart & has everything I need to get where I want to go.

[piper6909]

Originally Posted by maytag

Interesting thread.
Here's an additional perspective:

In the '80's, I drove some of the newish models and was do disenchanted that it turned me off to Porsche for 3 decades. I've been a harsh critic of what Porsche thinks a good handling car feels like for a long time, based on those '70's and '80's air cooled Porsches. It seemed that Porsche wanted to simply continue to update their flawed design for all those years. Truly; you could walk me through a paddock and I wouldn't be able to tell a 70's 911 from a 90's 911, because Porsche was hell-bent on providing the same old P.O.S. to the world, and the masses just kept eating it up and raving about it.
Or so I thought.

Then I drove the 986 (a car I had dismissed along with everybody else), and couldn't quit giggling. I realized then that I was wrong, and needed to open my eyes a little bit. Since then, I've driven some fantastic Porsches, from Cayman GT4's to a GT3RS, and some other tasty things in between. Fantastic cars.

They still don't tick the box for me, emotionally. They don't feel particularly "special". They're very good at what they do, but there's little emotion involved in it.

And the air-cooled cars? Still terrible. Horrible, poor-performing buckets of "#metoo" for the academia-types (with patches on the elbows of their tweed blazers) who wouldn't know a good-performing car if it stood up and spoke Italian to them.

Bravo, Maytag! Ever consider a writing career for Motor Trend or something? You know I don't always agree with you, but damn, you know how to make compelling, colorful arguments!

[piper6909]

Originally Posted by BoxMann

Curious, why not a 987? Especially a 987.2

For me, just the fact that they don't have an oil dipstick is one major reason.

[911monty]

Originally Posted by maytag

Interesting thread.
Here's an additional perspective:

In the '80's, I drove some of the newish models and was do disenchanted that it turned me off to Porsche for 3 decades. I've been a harsh critic of what Porsche thinks a good handling car feels like for a long time, based on those '70's and '80's air cooled Porsches. It seemed that Porsche wanted to simply continue to update their flawed design for all those years. Truly; you could walk me through a paddock and I wouldn't be able to tell a 70's 911 from a 90's 911, because Porsche was hell-bent on providing the same old P.O.S. to the world, and the masses just kept eating it up and raving about it.
Or so I thought.

Then I drove the 986 (a car I had dismissed along with everybody else), and couldn't quit giggling. I realized then that I was wrong, and needed to open my eyes a little bit. Since then, I've driven some fantastic Porsches, from Cayman GT4's to a GT3RS, and some other tasty things in between. Fantastic cars.

They still don't tick the box for me, emotionally. They don't feel particularly "special". They're very good at what they do, but there's little emotion involved in it.

And the air-cooled cars? Still terrible. Horrible, poor-performing buckets of "#metoo" for the academia-types (with patches on the elbows of their tweed blazers) who wouldn't know a good-performing car if it stood up and spoke Italian to them.

Umm I call BS. I know personal perception is colored by life experience, but the 80s ? really? The most depressing decade of automotive junk ever?

What were you comparing Porsche to that you felt was so superior? American iron with the smog choked engines that were lucky to survive to 100k miles? The corvette finally in 85 put a control arm that wasn't a direct descendant of a 56 Olds. Jaguar had the glorious XJS that was like living in California, you didn't know when the electric was going to fail. Italian cars were so finicky if you drove them twice in a month you had to check them into a shop for rehab?

SO please to not sound like the snooty patched sleeve professor and believe me I do like your new car but the last jab of speaking Italian was a bit much.

While Porsche had some troubles ( catalytic converters under the cylinders, magnesium cases that spit out studs like sunflower seed shells and with a climate control system that still sucked) At least they were reliable and with bodies now being galvanize zinc dipped they were built for the long haul. AND if you really had a death wish or just enjoyed being terrified you could buy a turbo and turn both sides of the apex into white knuckle thrills.