Help With Durametric Actual Values

[Tweetdriver63]

Recently my car started misfiring on start-up and idling very rough. It threw several codes: P300, P301, P304, P1128, P1130.

I noticed a small coolant leak at the same time. I took it to the shop.

They diagnosed the leak as the water pump and replaced it. At the same time, they replaced the serpentine belt. They said it was fixed, so I picked it up.

It wasn't.

It was still idling rough and misfiring, but no longer throwing the codes for it.

After a bit of online research, I determined the misfiring in cylinders 1 and 4 was most likely caused by old, cracked ignition coils getting some coolant on them from the leak, since those are the two front cylinders.

Yesterday I installed 6 new ignition coils and 6 new spark plugs. When I did, I found some oil in the spark plug tubes of cylinders 1 and 4, and a little in cylinder 2 as well. This situation is one I had not known about, and was afraid was something terrible, but then discovered those tubes are removable and it's a common thing. I have ordered six new tubes/seals.

First question is, would that leaking immediately cause the roughness and misfiring?

The only codes I got after I installed the new coils and plugs were the 1128 and 1130. Interestingly, when those codes were displayed, the idle was pretty smooth. When I cleared those codes, while the car was running, the idle immediately went to s.h.i.t. (Next time they appear, I won't clear them.)

Any help is appreciated.

Now, on to the Durametric.

I took a few pages from the service manual, started the car, and recorded all the numbers I could get. Here's what's going on. (I know the Cats are bad. That's nothing new, but I've been running fine on them, except for an occasional CEL, for 3-4 years.)

Numbers that are out of range are in bold.

Idle Speed (expect 740 +/-40) --- in range
Load Signal [Engine Load?] (expect 1.0 ms +/-0.25) --- 17-18%
Mass Air Flow (expect 15 +/-1.25) --- 11-12
Engine Temp (expect 90 +/-5 C) --- 76.5C
Ignition Timing (expect 5.3 +/-0.5 deg crk) --- 2.2 ms
Oil Temp (expect 90.0 +/-5 C) --- 67.5 C
Oxygen Sensing, All cylinders (expect 1.0 +/- 0.05) -- all in range
Adaptation Range 2, Bank 1 FRA (expect 0.96 +/- 0.03) --- 1.06
Adaptation Range 2, Bank 2 FRA --- 1.05
Adaptation Range 1, Bank 1 RKAT? (expect 0.00 +/- 0.06) --- 3.00
Adaptation Range 1, Bank 2 RKAT? --- 3.09
O2 sensor voltage
---Ahead of Cat (expect 0.07 - 0.79 --- Both fluctuating between .09 to .82
---Behind Cat (expect 0.64 - 0.79 --- Both fluctuating between .09 to .75
O2 sensor resistance
---Ahead of Cat --- Both banks steady at 64
---Behind Cat --- Bank 1 steady at 64, Bank 2 steady at 128 (This one is bold because it's the odd man out.)
Camshaft Position 1 Deviation (expect 0.0 +/- 4) --- -9.22 (steady regardless of RPM)
Camshaft Position 2 Deviation --- -8.66 (steady regardless of RPM)
Rough Running (expect 0.0 +/- 1.5) -- 7.6/8.8 (jumps back and forth abruptly)
Misfire Detection --- 0 for all cylinders

I also removed the oil filler cap with it idling and there's clear suction and MAF numbers drop, and the idle immediately goes to s.h.i.t.. There is also suction when removing the dipstick, but the idle is only slightly affected.

Any help I can get before I take it in for some (probably) expensive work would be appreciated.

[JFP in PA]

Yes................

[tonythetiger]

leaking tubes (common) and cracked coils will both cause misfires.
I discovered my cracked coils after runing through a puddle during a flash flood. no issues until that happened and it cleared up after drying...but.
The suction from oil filler cap might point to failing AOS (again rouch idle) but I would defer to whatever JFP has to say on this. I have always replaced the AOS before they went bad on my cars because they are cheap, the job isnt hard and the cars are almost 20 years old. Just use the hose clamp pliers everybody swears by, otherwise its IMPOSSIBLE!

[Tweetdriver63]

Originally Posted by JFP in PA

Yes................

"Yes" what?

Yes, the oil leaking into those spark plug tubes would immediately cause the roughness and misfiring?

[Tweetdriver63]

Originally Posted by tonythetiger

leaking tubes (common) and cracked coils will both cause misfires.
I discovered my cracked coils after runing through a puddle during a flash flood. no issues until that happened and it cleared up after drying...but.
The suction from oil filler cap might point to failing AOS (again rouch idle) but I would defer to whatever JFP has to say on this. I have always replaced the AOS before they went bad on my cars because they are cheap, the job isnt hard and the cars are almost 20 years old. Just use the hose clamp pliers everybody swears by, otherwise its IMPOSSIBLE!

The shop told me the AOS needed to be replaced, but I told them it had been replaced about a year ago, so they said it probably didn't need it. Also, I don't get white smoke on start-up (well, occasionally, but only a little), and when I took the oil filler cap off with it running, there was suction, but the cap was easy to remove so I don't think I need a new AOS.

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by Tweetdriver63

"Yes" what?

Yes, the oil leaking into those spark plug tubes would immediately cause the roughness and misfiring?

Yes, that was the question you asked..............

[Tweetdriver63]

Originally Posted by JFP in PA

Yes, that was the question you asked..............

Haha. That's what I thought.

Any thoughts on those Durametric readings? Particularly the Cam Position Deviations?

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by Tweetdriver63

Haha. That's what I thought.

Any thoughts on those Durametric readings? Particularly the Cam Position Deviations?

Both banks are way out of spec (+/- 6 degrees), which needs atteniton.

[Tweetdriver63]

Originally Posted by JFP in PA

Both banks are way out of spec (+/- 6 degrees), which needs atteniton.

I've just called my garage and asked for an estimate. I'm going to have them install the new spark plug tubes (I don't feel like doing that whole job again, if they're going to be in there anyway.) and fix the Cam Deviations. I may go ahead and get the Cats replaced as well, since I know they're crap.

Also, I keep seeing that +/-6, but the service manual says +/-4.

I just have to tell myself that fixing this stuff is still cheaper than buying a new car.

[pilot4fn]

Originally Posted by Tweetdriver63

I've just called my garage and asked for an estimate. I'm going to have them install the new spark plug tubes (I don't feel like doing that whole job again, if they're going to be in there anyway.) and fix the Cam Deviations. I may go ahead and get the Cats replaced as well, since I know they're crap.

Also, I keep seeing that +/-6, but the service manual says +/-4.

I just have to tell myself that fixing this stuff is still cheaper than buying a new car.

Would be interesting to know before the actual repair (and invoice), what they are going to do to fix the cam deviations...

[Tweetdriver63]

Originally Posted by pilot4fn

Would be interesting to know before the actual repair (and invoice), what they are going to do to fix the cam deviations...

They'll tell me what they intend first, and a cost, but I'm pretty sure it will involve the vario-cam pads needing to be replaced, and possibly some replacement or adjustments to timing chains. I'll also be asking about the clutch and IMS bearing, and probably replace the crap cats, if they're going to be dropping the engine to do this stuff. I haven't had any issues with the clutch, but again, if they're dropping the engine, I might as well think about those things. I've had the car for 4 1/2 years and 50,000 miles (it has 143,000 on it now), and I don't think the IMS was ever upgraded on it.

By the time this stuff is done, I'm sure I will have paid as much in work (specially with the new paint job I just got -- Murphy, right?) in 2020 as the car is worth, but still cheaper than buying a new car.

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by Tweetdriver63

I've just called my garage and asked for an estimate. I'm going to have them install the new spark plug tubes (I don't feel like doing that whole job again, if they're going to be in there anyway.) and fix the Cam Deviations. I may go ahead and get the Cats replaced as well, since I know they're crap.

Also, I keep seeing that +/-6, but the service manual says +/-4.

I just have to tell myself that fixing this stuff is still cheaper than buying a new car.

If the service manual had been kept up to date, a supplement would tell you that the spec is +/- 6 degrees, the earlier number was a typo.