2002 Boxster S or 2003 Boxster?

[Perfectlap]

an extra 20 HP? I agree 20 HP you woudln't really notice.
but difference between the 3.2 and 2.7 is DEFINITELY noticeable.
Its enough of a difference to classify the S with the standard 911's at my local Autocross events. I've bettered 911 lap times with less power many times.
The hardtop M3's times are a bit closer vs. the 986S and the driver usually tips the scale in that match up.


The 2.7 Boxsters run against the Honda S2000 and they go back and forth for quicker times usually. I am rarely slower than the S2000 even in the hands of some very very good drivers even though the S2000 only has 10 less HP than the BoxsterS. And the S2000 is one very well layed out car. The engine actually sits behind the front shock mounts and not forward of them. Good competition between those two. Now add S power and suspesnsion to the Boxster and its not so close.

Also I've said this before but at this particular curb weight I feel the car behaves very differently with 240HP-250 than it does below that. Both are fun no doubt but very different experience. Hard to describe but coming out of corners both fast and slow the car seems to "come alive" with the xtra HP/Torque.

For every day driving I doubt you'll see a difference other than highway merging/passing. There is no deficiency with either but they are different.

Buy a little S emblem and trick yourself into believing you have 20 more horses. Besides, the 03 might accualy have more power depending on condition, like people say, once they change out their maf and o2 sensors they kick themselves for not doing it earlier. So unless you have a G-tech like me and go test the 0-60's, you shouldnt count on factory rated horsepower.

[aBsOlUt]

I would go for the S.

Besides the obvious power gain, the S will provide a much better resale value in years to come.

Not to mention the brakes and suspension.

[MNBoxster]

Originally Posted by aBsOlUt

I would go for the S...the S will provide a much better resale value in years to come...

Hi,

Sorry, have to disagree, this is a falacy. Boxster sales/production are split pretty much 50/50 between Base/'S'. So, the resale isn't higher because the model is no more rare, when the time comes, there'll be plenty of competition. And, if you consider the premium it costs to get into the 'S' to begin with, any increased resale price will pretty much just account for this, they do not depreciate at a lesser rate than the Base.

Now, if the Base suits you, and you put the difference between the two in the bank, you'd actually come out ahead at the end..

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99 (pre-'S')

[David N.]

Sales may be equal, but it sure doesn't seem like used car availability is, especially for equivalent pricing. When I was hunting autotrader and craigslist I'd usually see 3-4 regular Boxsters for every S, and the S's would always be at a premium.

Horsepower aside, you might also want to check out the low end torque difference between the S and non-S engines you're looking at. Having that extra workhorse grunt to get around the city really made a difference to me when I was testing different cars (sorry Honda!).


-David N.
2000 Ocean Blue S

[MNBoxster]

Originally Posted by David N.

Sales may be equal, but it sure doesn't seem like used car availability is, especially for equivalent pricing. When I was hunting autotrader and craigslist I'd usually see 3-4 regular Boxsters for every S, and the S's would always be at a premium.

Horsepower aside, you might also want to check out the low end torque difference between the S and non-S engines you're looking at. Having that extra workhorse grunt to get around the city really made a difference to me when I was testing different cars (sorry Honda!).


-David N.
2000 Ocean Blue S

Hi,

Your contribution is interesting. Could be that 'S' owners hand onto them longer, or that 'S's have a shorter turnover time once up for resale. But, it's more probable that it's simply the fact that since '96, when the Boxster was 1st introduced overseas, the Base model outproduced the 'S' model 107,802 to 52,198 total units, or more than 2-to-1 (because the Base was issued for 4 model years before the 'S' was introduced and so there are so many more around).

I'm not sure what you mean when you say that the 'S' would always be at a premium. Do you mean that it simply sells for more than the Base? That would figure since it's original MSRP is higher. Do you mean that they sell for more than Edmunds or Kelley state are the used values of the 'S'? If so, and all things being absolutely equal (same miles, color, options, zip code) then that would indicate a lower than anticipated depreciation, and would truly be a premium. There are Base models which sell for more than some 'S' models, and if one is looking for a used car, they should probably go for the most car for the money, Base or 'S'.

True the 'S' has a better torque curve and outright more power. But, almost 35% (55,604) of all Boxsters sold were the Base model before the 'S' was introduced. Consider that Boxster production was 50/50% Base/'S' since 2000, and so since then, 52,198 of each model have been produced. (source Porsche Group Annual Report).

But, if people weren't overwhelmingly satisfied with the Base, the production of the 'S' model would never have occured. It wasn't introduced due to lagging sales, all units produced, Base and 'S', were sold in 2000, 2001, 2002. Sales didn't start to lag until the '03 model year and have been doing so ever since.

I drive a '99. It's not a Base, because there was no 'S' available to choose from - it's a pre-'S'. For two seasons now I have driven it and I have also driven several 'S' models. While the 'S' does have more bottom-end, it doesn't have that much more and while it's got more power, again, not appreciably so. I can honestly say that for what I use the car for, my Pre- 'S' is perfect and the additional price and maintenance costs of the 'S' (Headers, Exhaust, Brakes all more expensive), it would be a waste. I could trade it for an 'S' today if I wanted to, but I don't.

Some people drive it harder, or Track the car and for this, the 'S' would be an improvement (albeit slight). And for some, they just have to run in the Big Dog pack (no value judgement, some simply do), and so nothing but the 'S' will satisfy (for these people, if an RS model were produced, they'd ditch their 'S' in favor of the RS in a heartbeat). Also, recently it seems, we're experiencing a large influx from the Ricer Crowd as Boxsters become more affordable. This is evidenced by the numerous Header, Intake, Forced Aspiration, Spoiler threads we've seen in the past few months. That's OK, but it's certainly influenced the traditional overall view of the Finesse over Power debate.

But, you get 99.9% of the Boxster experience in the Pre- 'S' or Base model, and this is something which is rarely communicated to prospective buyers. You can get into it for thousands less and for the most part, unless you belong to one of the aforementioned groups, you'll be very satisfied.

For the most part, virtually all Sports Cars (MGs, Triumphs, Lotus, Porsche (save a few special models), Austin-Healeys and such) were traditionally underpowered, especially when compared with their American contemporaries. But, they offered styling, handling, lightness, close-quarter fit like a glove, which attracted people in droves. The Boxster nestles neatly into this tradition

People looking to buy a used Boxster should truly drive both models. If done unbiasedly, I suspect many people won't see the physical advantages of the 'S' worth the additional cost (I'm not accounting for Bling or Bragging Rights). Some will, to be sure, but I believe that many won't...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

[NickCats]

Jim,

Great post ! When I started looking for a Boxster at the beginning of this year, all my friends said "you gotta get an S". After looking at and driving about a dozen different Boxsters ( 1999 - 2001 ), I ended up buying the one I did because it looked the best, drove the best, and felt the best of all the cars I had seen. I really did not notice a huge difference between the S and non S models when I was behind the wheel. If I thought the increased price of the S was justified by the performance, I would have gladly paid the premium...

Nick

Originally Posted by MNBoxster

Hi,

Your contribution is interesting. Could be that 'S' owners hand onto them longer, or that 'S's have a shorter turnover time once up for resale. But, it's more probable that it's simply the fact that since '96, when the Boxster was 1st introduced overseas, the Base model outproduced the 'S' model 107,802 to 52,198 total units, or more than 2-to-1 (because the Base was issued for 4 model years before the 'S' was introduced and so there are so many more around).

I'm not sure what you mean when you say that the 'S' would always be at a premium. Do you mean that it simply sells for more than the Base? That would figure since it's original MSRP is higher. Do you mean that they sell for more than Edmunds or Kelley state are the used values of the 'S'? If so, and all things being absolutely equal (same miles, color, options, zip code) then that would indicate a lower than anticipated depreciation, and would truly be a premium. There are Base models which sell for more than some 'S' models, and if one is looking for a used car, they should probably go for the most car for the money, Base or 'S'.

True the 'S' has a better torque curve and outright more power. But, almost 35% (55,604) of all Boxsters sold were the Base model before the 'S' was introduced. Consider that Boxster production was 50/50% Base/'S' since 2000, and so since then, 52,198 of each model have been produced. (source Porsche Group Annual Report).

But, if people weren't overwhelmingly satisfied with the Base, the production of the 'S' model would never have occured. It wasn't introduced due to lagging sales, all units produced, Base and 'S', were sold in 2000, 2001, 2002. Sales didn't start to lag until the '03 model year and have been doing so ever since.

I drive a '99. It's not a Base, because there was no 'S' available to choose from - it's a pre-'S'. For two seasons now I have driven it and I have also driven several 'S' models. While the 'S' does have more bottom-end, it doesn't have that much more and while it's got more power, again, not appreciably so. I can honestly say that for what I use the car for, my Pre- 'S' is perfect and the additional price and maintenance costs of the 'S' (Headers, Exhaust, Brakes all more expensive), it would be a waste. I could trade it for an 'S' today if I wanted to, but I don't.

Some people drive it harder, or Track the car and for this, the 'S' would be an improvement (albeit slight). And for some, they just have to run in the Big Dog pack (no value judgement, some simply do), and so nothing but the 'S' will satisfy (for these people, if an RS model were produced, they'd ditch their 'S' in favor of the RS in a heartbeat). Also, recently it seems, we're experiencing a large influx from the Ricer Crowd as Boxsters become more affordable. This is evidenced by the numerous Header, Intake, Forced Aspiration, Spoiler threads we've seen in the past few months. That's OK, but it's certainly influenced the traditional overall view of the Finesse over Power debate.

But, you get 99.9% of the Boxster experience in the Pre- 'S' or Base model, and this is something which is rarely communicated to prospective buyers. You can get into it for thousands less and for the most part, unless you belong to one of the aforementioned groups, you'll be very satisfied.

For the most part, virtually all Sports Cars (MGs, Triumphs, Lotus, Porsche (save a few special models), Austin-Healeys and such) were traditionally underpowered, especially when compared with their American contemporaries. But, they offered styling, handling, lightness, close-quarter fit like a glove, which attracted people in droves. The Boxster nestles neatly into this tradition

People looking to buy a used Boxster should truly drive both models. If done unbiasedly, I suspect many people won't see the physical advantages of the 'S' worth the additional cost (I'm not accounting for Bling or Bragging Rights). Some will, to be sure, but I believe that many won't...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

[David N.]

Quote:

"I'm not sure what you mean when you say that the 'S' would always be at a premium. Do you mean that it simply sells for more than the Base? That would figure since it's original MSRP is higher. Do you mean that they sell for more than Edmunds or Kelley state are the used values of the 'S'? If so, and all things being absolutely equal (same miles, color, options, zip code) then that would indicate a lower than anticipated depreciation, and would truly be a premium. There are Base models which sell for more than some 'S' models, and if one is looking for a used car, they should probably go for the most car for the money, Base or 'S'."

Originally Posted by MNBoxster


I meant for the same year model, the S's were always a lot harder to find, and when compared same year, the price difference was fairly substantial Base to S (15-20%). You're right, that's certainly just a factor of MSRP, but I think it still speaks well of the S variant that it retains its premium over the course of six years and a market full of cheaper-priced non-S's to compete with. KBB-wise, I was just looking at S's but they did seem to match the price-range (hovering around individual sale and up to dealer used prices based on condition, and of course on Craigs most people were asking for the moon and more for their car).

Personally, I was comparing up against a 2000 M Roadster (of course I wanted 2001+, but talk about rare and expensive!), so having close or better torque and engine performance was important to me. At the end of the day I found an outstanding deal for an S from someone that lives 300 yards away from me, who could probably have sold it to carmax or something and made more money. Carfax and Porsche PPI later, the car was amazing, I grabbed it, haven't looked back since.


David N.
2000 Ocean Blue S