2004 Bose or not Bose?

[Lacostas]

Hey there, hope all boxsterers are good!

My Boxster 2004 dash speakers are very worn out, and the sound is very bad so i should order some used ones. But im not sure if i should order the HAES speakers or the BOSE speakers, in terms of combatibilty. My boxster has only dash speakers, no door or any other speakers around..

What do you think ?

[Lew]

That's simple to answer. Bose because they are balanced speakers with the system. However it's your car and if you wish to start changing things from what's original you might not like what you have done. If I ever have a problem with my Bose system, I will go Bose.

[Lacostas]

Originally Posted by Lew

That's simple to answer. Bose because they are balanced speakers with the system. However it's your car and if you wish to start changing things from what's original you might not like what you have done. If I ever have a problem with my Bose system, I will go Bose.

Thanks, i would choose bose too but what if my current broken Speakers are HAES? Will BOSE be compatible in terms of wiring or so ?

[Lew]

Originally Posted by Lacostas

Thanks, i would choose bose too but what if my current broken Speakers are HAES? Will BOSE be compatible in terms of wiring or so ?

What if! Why would they be any other speakers other than Bose speakers.

[Cunningr]

Do not go Bose! If all you want to do is upgrade the dash speakers replace with some herts or Alpine coaxial, you can either cut up the old speaker to diy a braket or order mout for I think $30 from CAI audio.

You could go focal, depends on what you want to spend.

I did complete upgrade did 3 way components amp and finishing a subwoofer mod using bose footwell sub from 996 cabriolet. Pulled the bose and installed 8” pioneer.

I digress, easy to open the dash speaker and check type. Will hold up to a 4” easiest is use a coax. Watch the depth.

[Cunningr]

Originally Posted by Lew

What if! Why would they be any other speakers other than Bose speakers.

Depends on if the car had the bose system, otherwise probably haes. With no door speakers or apparent bose logo he probably has the later.

[10/10ths]

I own a 2004 with the Bose system. I actually replaced my dash speakers with some JBL high sensitivity units somebody posted about in this forum and they sound way better.

Do a search and buy any of the coax units folks have installed and reported good luck with. Whatever you buy will sound better than any OEM speaker. Bose or otherwise.

[Cunningr]

Originally Posted by 10/10ths

I own a 2004 with the Bose system. I actually replaced my dash speakers with some JBL high sensitivity units somebody posted about in this forum and they sound way better.

Do a search and buy any of the coax units folks have installed and reported good luck with. Whatever you buy will sound better than any OEM speaker. Bose or otherwise.

Correct. I was using jbl coax until my current upgrade! Sounded good, especially for the money.

[marsheng]

Hmm speakers.

All car speakers are made from little coils of wire between magnets that are attached to a cardboard (or similar material) cone. As the current varies through the coils, the cone vibrates and you hear the sound. End of story. Some car speakers are 8 ohms and most are 4. Every amp that claims 50W uses 4 ohm speakers. Matching between amp and speaker !!!!! The amp has no idea what is attached to it.

The quality of the fabrication does vary. You may be able to do and A B test between 2 sets of speakers and one will sound better than the other. HOWEVER, listen to both sets and then wait 10 minutes. Get some one to randomly connect a set and then you listen and see if you can identify which one it is. Better still, get in the car and drive at 60mph and then guess. Basically it will be a guess because you will not know the difference.

On the other hand if you are listening to that level of intensity, you cannot be concentrating on driving.

After a love affair with hi fi for 40 years, just use a reasonable quality speaker and it will be excellent. (Bigger diameter, better base and higher volume in general)

The only way that sound makers make money is by is making you believe there is a difference. There is very little in it in a car environment.

Save your money.

[Cunningr]

Originally Posted by marsheng

Hmm speakers.

All car speakers are made from little coils of wire between magnets that are attached to a cardboard (or similar material) cone. As the current varies through the coils, the cone vibrates and you hear the sound. End of story. Some car speakers are 8 ohms and most are 4. Every amp that claims 50W uses 4 ohm speakers. Matching between amp and speaker !!!!! The amp has no idea what is attached to it.

The quality of the fabrication does vary. You may be able to do and A B test between 2 sets of speakers and one will sound better than the other. HOWEVER, listen to both sets and then wait 10 minutes. Get some one to randomly connect a set and then you listen and see if you can identify which one it is. Better still, get in the car and drive at 60mph and then guess. Basically it will be a guess because you will not know the difference.

On the other hand if you are listening to that level of intensity, you cannot be concentrating on driving.

After a love affair with hi fi for 40 years, just use a reasonable quality speaker and it will be excellent. (Bigger diameter, better base and higher volume in general)

The only way that sound makers make money is by is making you believe there is a difference. There is very little in it in a car environment.

Save your money.

There is a very big difference in speakers, especially in todays audio enviroment. I agree a boxster isnt the best platform for the super high def audio. But material and many soeakers have much better sensativity ratings. This will make a speaker more efficient, and in general terms speaker quality weill follow price.

Also in a 986 speakers in dash are 4 ohms, if you have hifi package the door speakers are 2 ohms. The bose subwoofer from the 996 cabriolet is 1 ohm. Just trying to point out many varibles.

Porsche didnt spend lots of cash on the audio, in these cars but putting a cheap paper speaker bak into the car is not the ansew.

[10/10ths]

That’s why those 2ohm JBL’s many have installed work so well

[marsheng]

All that the ohmage does is increase the power rating. Lower ohms higher power from the same power supply voltage. Even 8 ohms in a car should have enough volume for normal listening.

The sensitivity is related to 2 factors. Gap between coils and magnets. Speaker weight. Smaller gap, higher sensivity, lighter cone, easier to move. The problem with cars is that when you bang the doors closed, the cone gets a massive pressure pulse and so car speakers are made heavier than hi fi ones to be able to take the abuse. So to start they are less sensitive.

Bottom line driving down the highway, you wont hear the difference.

[Cunningr]

Originally Posted by marsheng

All that the ohmage does is increase the power rating. Lower ohms higher power from the same power supply voltage. Even 8 ohms in a car should have enough volume for normal listening.

The sensitivity is related to 2 factors. Gap between coils and magnets. Speaker weight. Smaller gap, higher sensivity, lighter cone, easier to move. The problem with cars is that when you bang the doors closed, the cone gets a massive pressure pulse and so car speakers are made heavier than hi fi ones to be able to take the abuse. So to start they are less sensitive.

Bottom line driving down the highway, you wont hear the difference.

Your speakers have to match your amplifier. I hate to break it to you but increasing ohm rating doesnt necassarily increase the power rating albeit it takes less power to reach the same power with a 4 ohm speaker, but speaker and amplifiers have to match in general terms.

You cant compare car audio and home audio, and I beg to differ you will hear the difference in your car using a more sensative speaker it takes less power to reach higher volume.

Sensativity has nothing to do with ohm rating either, there are varying levels a sensativity with in the same ohmage speakers.

The guy asked for an opinion on reinstalling haes or bose as replacement not an engineering discussion. Lol The majority opinions here, and other sites are use other speakers because they will sound better.

I know this because i just did an SQ system in my boxster, and yes it blows away the stock system. Can i use it at max hifidelity, no because its a convertable.

Before that i changed only the dash speakers and yes it did sound much better. No theory here all practice.

[marsheng]

Originally Posted by Cunningr

Your speakers have to match your amplifier. I hate to break it to you but increasing ohm rating doesnt necassarily increase the power rating albeit it takes less power to reach the same power with a 4 ohm speaker, but speaker and amplifiers have to match in general terms.

Not sure what this means. "takes less power to reach the same power"

Hmm at what frequent is it 4 or 2 ohms.

See a typical speaker resistance with regard to frequency. [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_characteristics_of_dynamic_loudspeakers[/URL]

1/2 way down the page.

Believe it or not the resistance or more accurately impedance changes with regards to frequency whether the speaker is in free air, dash board, car door, or box and box with a hole in it. So for a "matched" system, the speaker position would have be be included in the description.

If you listen to classical then your choice of speakers may well be different if it was rock. They do sound different.

To answer the original question, put in what you feel happy with. All have pros and cons. No perfect solution. (Oh yes there is, go to the recording studio)

Over and out.

[Smallblock454]

Originally Posted by Lacostas

Hey there, hope all boxsterers are good!

My Boxster 2004 dash speakers are very worn out, and the sound is very bad so i should order some used ones. But im not sure if i should order the HAES speakers or the BOSE speakers, in terms of combatibilty. My boxster has only dash speakers, no door or any other speakers around..

What do you think ?

First deinstall the dashboard speakers and check them. Deoriented membrane or bead, bad speaker coil etc. If the speakers have a real damage, you have to replace them. Check also Ohm resistance. If there is only little debree on the membrane that rattles, remove that debree and reuse the speakers if they are OK apart from that.

Than check what you have. There are different kinds of speaker sets from factory. HAES with one full range speaker, HAES with a two way system, BOSE with a two way system etc.

The BOSE system only works fine, if you have a complete BOSE setup. That means dashboard speakers, door speakers and rear subwoofer plus the BOSE amp that belongs to that system. To replace the dashboard speakers with BOSE ones won't sound good.

If the OEM 2 way HAES dashboard speakers are OK, you can add a crossover to make them sound much better. http://986forum.com/forums/boxster-general-discussions/71465-dashboard-sound-system-modification.html

If you want to replace the dasbboard speakers with some after market ones, you'll need to make or buy additional adapters.

Regards from Germany,
Markus

[Lacostas]

Thanks for the replies guys. Im not quite sure if i want to really upgrade the audio, im saving money for more important things (recently changed the leaking main heat exchanger, brake pads, brake disks, AOS etc..) and currently i think the Morot mount needs replacement too, but anyway.

I think ill stick with some "decent" used HAES speakers, that will simply do the job i guess. I find them in decent condition at ±120$ both, but again maybe the JBL are at the same price new. But im a bit lazy to do the DIY.. Hmm..

[Cunningr]

Originally Posted by Lacostas

Thanks for the replies guys. Im not quite sure if i want to really upgrade the audio, im saving money for more important things (recently changed the leaking main heat exchanger, brake pads, brake disks, AOS etc..) and currently i think the Morot mount needs replacement too, but anyway.

I think ill stick with some "decent" used HAES speakers, that will simply do the job i guess. I find them in decent condition at ±120$ both, but again maybe the JBL are at the same price new. But im a bit lazy to do the DIY.. Hmm..

The jbl will be same cost new. Its not a hard job, if you order the mount kit from CAI take you an hour tops.

[MWS]

Originally Posted by Lacostas

Thanks for the replies guys. Im not quite sure if i want to really upgrade the audio, im saving money for more important things (recently changed the leaking main heat exchanger, brake pads, brake disks, AOS etc..) and currently i think the Morot mount needs replacement too, but anyway.

I think ill stick with some "decent" used HAES speakers, that will simply do the job i guess. I find them in decent condition at ±120$ both, but again maybe the JBL are at the same price new. But im a bit lazy to do the DIY.. Hmm..

I'd still go with decent aftermarket speakers...if only just for the fronts. Think of it as a "phased audio upgrade" whereas the other components can be swapped later. Get some good input (and shopping list) of what the finished project would be, and then just swap out the fonts now. Look at it this way...if your there (and spending the time to do so) why not go ahead and put some decent components in...because in the future if you do a system upgrade, you'll be doing the same work, spending the same money and tossing some relatively new speakers in the trash. I'm a big proponent of doing something once...

[Smallblock454]

Hm, decent?

We'll see how these decent speakers will sound in 14 years from now on.

Main thing is not the speaker quality, but that there frequency response and sensivity fits electronically and acoustically to the installation situation and the rest of the system. So the volume of the cabin and the volume of the "box". OK most of these "car hifi speakers" are electronically designed to run free air. And there coil tolerances are pretty high to run under very cold as well as very hot and humid conditions. So that is nothing you would tolerate in home hifi.

In general a processor with time alignment, active crossover and eq in a car is much more important for a good staging and sound than a high end speaker.

Or you use passive components to get there. Which in the end is more expensive to develop.

And by the way. These 2 way Alpine or whatever speakers have nothing to do with decent or very good quality. The crossovers in these things are as crappy as the speakers themselves. But hey, if you believe in brands, believe in brands.

Regards, Markus

[Cunningr]

Originally Posted by Smallblock454

Hm, decent?

We'll see how these decent speakers will sound in 14 years from now on.

Main thing is not the speaker quality, but that there frequency response and sensivity fits electronically and acoustically to the installation situation and the rest of the system. So the volume of the cabin and the volume of the "box". OK most of these "car hifi speakers" are electronically designed to run free air. And there coil tolerances are pretty high to run under very cold as well as very hot and humid conditions. So that is nothing you would tolerate in home hifi.

In general a processor with time alignment, active crossover and eq in a car is much more important for a good staging and sound than a high end speaker.

Or you use passive components to get there. Which in the end is more expensive to develop.

And by the way. These 2 way Alpine or whatever speakers have nothing to do with decent or very good quality. The crossovers in these things are as crappy as the speakers themselves. But hey, if you believe in brands, believe in brands.

Regards, Markus

I don't believe anybody here is saying use a specific brand. But I can tell you from experience and actually changing speakers that klipch, JBL GTO, and the blaupunkts all 2 way passive sounded much better than the factory HAES speakers.

I have since installed an 80prs SQ system with time alignment and active crossovers. Alpine PDX-v9 amp, Hertz Mille Pro 3 way components, and modified a passenger foot well Bose sub box from a 996 cabriolet with an 8" pioneer to handle to low end. Still have some tweaking to do, but the system sounds awesome.

My point is its sound quality is all relative to total components ect... but keeping things simple and thinking longer term any of the speakers I mentioned above blew away the HAES components from the factory and going that route would save repeating later.

Fact of the matter is those speakers are (in my case 18 years old), and speaker technology has improved over past 18 years. Out of the 3 speakers I tested the KBL GTO were a nice middle ground for Bass and Highs, but I liked the Klipsch. My new setup different class.