986 Haters
 

I am fairly quite on all forums I belong to, with a 5 year old and 5 month old my time is taken up but I needed to say something and see if others get the same. I have owned my 2001 Boxster S for 2 years now (64k miles). I always loved Porsche and wanted one so when I saw the Boxster prices under $15k for an S in pretty good shape I decided to sell my 1999 Mustang Cobra and look for a Boxster. I did many repairs and upgrades and the my car is pretty well sorted now, mostly completed by me. I have been a PCA member and attended some meetings/events but not everyone, who has time for that? So here is my rant- I am 36 years old but l could pass for 30 and I feel the Boxster hate from other Porsche guys. Sorry I cant afford a GT3 and spend 5 grand on seat stitching but I am an enthusiast. To me I like 924's to 964's and all are Porsches no matter what. I seem to get the cold shoulder from many other Porsche owners, honestly they say Porsche owners are snobs and I see it. The Mustangs guys are alot more accepting as are Toyota guys (another interest of mine). I didnt buy the car for hanging out with other owners but the camaraderie is part of the ownership of a marque. Is it because I look young? Is it because I drive a $15k Boxster? Whats up with PCA members at least in my region? I have tried talking to guys at meetings and some are cool but the majority aren't. Will the 986 hate every go away?:ah:

Porsches in general have a selection bias and attract a certain owner. We can be pretty judgmental people in general. We have pre conceived notions about how things should be. That’s why we buy a car that’s mid engine and manual. As it should be. We have high standards and rank things in our lives against such.

This ties into people. I don’t think porsches owners will particularly hate on members within a group for what they drive. But I could see discrimination on other factors being very present.

I know some guys see the 986 as the "poor mans porsche" but it hasnt been "cheap" to repair in my book. Is this a reason is that its an "entry" level Porsche? last time I checked it has the crest on the hood and saved Porsche in the 90's. Maybe I just need to deal with it and hang out only with 986 guys lol.

I owned Porsches for 7 yrs before I joined our club and only joined because I needed to be a member to do DEs. I heard stories about nose high attitudes and a dislike for Boxsters or someone who wasn't "rich" (in general, not specifically to my local club) that gave me reservations about joining. I could not have been more wrong in my assumptions. We have a great club with a diverse income background and car collections. Everyone gets along and we all rub elbows at events. Maybe it's a Midwest thing, as we're known as friendly folk. Regardless, I'm sorry I didn't join sooner as some of my best friends are club members.

Might try to give everyone a chance, interact with everyone and see who's open. Then hang with those folks. Who wants to hang with snobs anyways? But give everyone 2-3 GOOD chances before writing them off. Maybe you caught them in an unusual moment. Take the high road and don't assume you're getting attitude. Rather than discussing which particular car everyone has, maybe ask where they have theirs serviced or how they drive it or a new model that's coming out - something less car specific to get the conversation going. Find some common ground and go from there.

You might also try becoming active on the club's board. Pick a job that's interesting to you and see if you can get elected to it, maybe social chair. Infiltrate the inner structure and then work to make the board more inclusive. Suggest events like fun runs or low key social activities, etc. That may help the openness filter down to the members.

Some what "tongue in cheek".
911 folks look down on all "non-911" models with the 996 being on the bottom of the pecking order.
996's look down on 986's.
1st Gen Boxsters look down on all other Boxsters
TT 'ers look down on all other 911's
air/oli coolers look down on the "water" cooled (and there is a pecking order within the air/oil cooled folks, someone else will have to clarify)
356'ers look down on every one
people who race look down on the unwashed masses

(Opinions based on 50+ years of owning roadsters and being ridiculed for my choices)(lots of smiley faces)

But we all love our cars... and isn't that all that matters?

I don't go to any of the PCGB meets in or near London anymore, I think that tells you everything about their attitude.

Porsche certainly is a high end label, with all the snobbery that some people feel they are entitled to. Porsche marketing doesn't help either.

986er need to rise up and crush the 911 elite class once and for all. Burn all the air cooled flat sixes to the ground

There is strength in our numbers. That is probably why we are the low Porsche on the totem pole, they built so many 986s

All you can do is enjoy the ride

It is what matters but there are many owners that see the Marque as a "status" symbol.
I see some other members agree with my observations.

I do go to driving events and make conversation with some here and there, not all are snobs obviously but majority are. With my line of work I can't commit plus a young family time is too valuable.

I am a 2004 Boxster S owner and a very active member of the PCA NER region, having done DE, AX, Tours, Concourse and training sessions. Not once have I run into any snobbery or looking down upon Boxsters. We have a great and welcoming group here, and I plan to do everything I can to keep it that way.

I find most guys are ok. I do think Sometimes people just like to talk about themselves and what they have. If you listen, they get along. You just hope they ask a question about your ride back. I make a point to try and talk to everyone about their car "story". The car is only part of the interest for me. A guy that dropped 100k and just turns the key doesn't make much of a story. I have met a few like that but they make it fun talking about how they just wrote a check and don't even know what a screwdriver is. I guess at the end of the day, assume nothing. Most people are good and the ones that are not, oh well. You just hope they learn. Life to short to be a dick.

I like the observation. Honestly, after having owned different brand, the food chain is there for each make. I am part of Ferrari and Lamborghini forums and the same talk is from owners of older models. For example one of my favorite Ferrari, Mondial 3.2, seems to be the Boxster of Ferrari, with owners noting new model owners not being really receptive. You probably do have a valid point.
I think owning a motorcycle was the best from waving to just talking with different people about riding in general.

Geez, I don’t know why anyone would care much what other Porsche guys think. The one’s with attitude are most likely idiots and really don’t know much more about their cars than how they think they look in it. I’ve owned 3 911’s; 71S, 72E, 78 SC. None were in spectacular shape, but I put a lot of miles on them. Fun sure. But truthfully, my 2000 2.7 Boxster is a better driver. Does everything better with the exception of seating position. The old 911’s had a ton of leg room. I do miss that. But heat not coming out of heater boxes from under an air/oil cooled engine is nice. Real AC, nice. Mid engine handling, nice. I’d like another old 911 sure. But not willing at this point to take a second mortgage for it.

My 2 bits. Enjoy your Boxsters. Really fun cars.

I am lucky in that my social circle is part of the R Gruppe, they just love to run their cars hard and have a good time. I have the only Boxster in the group (not an official member) and am accepted as part of the scene. I was even invited by Chris to attend the next Treffen. I just went on an epic weekend with the guys and had a blast. I get good natured ribbing from one or two guys but they get it right back. When I first got it they called it a chick car, now that they see how good this car is I don't hear that anymore!

Try different types of events in your region. From my experience in a couple regions, friendliness is inverse to what you might expect.

If snobbery shows up, it typically is isolated to "the waxers" as a friend refers to them. Those who EXCLUSIVELY participate in show-n-shine/concours events and nothing else. Simple insecurity on their part which I know you can rise above. If anything this makes perfect sense as "they" are attending to just 'show off' an object for praise... as opposed to connecting with people (which is the true purpose). And before anyone takes offense to term "waxers", yes I do concours events occasionally and in full disclosure have done very well in them with the same car I had put on the track a few weeks earlier.

On the other hand, typically "drivers" in a club (aka those who participate in DE, AX and even most rally drivers) are most welcoming/friendly. Huge camaraderie develops weekends at a track... or whilst spending a day humping cones. Not to mention skill [usually] humbles quickly. You can talk a huge game all you want but proof is in the pudding when you're doing 150-200 feet per second. Guys in an original 944 w skill can easily embarrass drivers w/ double and even triple the HP. By the same token, I've also seen a guy w a stock Gen-3 VW Golf run neck to neck w a 997 GT3RS owner (talk about humbling) yet at the end of the day they'll grab a beer, dinner and a cigar together.

Again try different types of events in your region. Some also comes down to your confidence level. If someone asks what you drive, say "A sweet 2001 986 S (or Boxster if you prefer) which I do much maintenance on and keep modifying to meet my needs"... As opposed to what I've witnessed more than once - "Oh, just an old Boxster". Exhibit your automotive passion and despise of lesser German marques - especially BMW (yes I'm a BMWCCA member). The vast vast vast majority of people could not care less how much you paid for a vehicle. In fact most will instead try to connect w/ you by saying something complimentary of your vehicle and or connecting you w someone they know in the club who has the same. If not, eff 'em.

Good luck :)


PS - if you want to really see snobs, swing by any Mercedes Club event and watch all the 3-4 person cliques... It's quite entertaining ;)

Yeah, that you're a snob and they aren't! :D

j/k ;)

Never experienced a different reaction between my 993tt and my boxster. Especially at the track, the box always gets positive comments. Maybe the wrong crowd, try the guys who autox or de, they seem to be less snobby

Just happy I have a 986 in good condition with about 175k miles So far the Orlando Porsche club let’s me in LOL


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I am a newer member and its an observation, hell my old man had an 85 Carrera and he said the same over 15 years ago. I am not the only one who notices this either. I am not expecting warm hugs but this is the most unfriendly group of enthusiasts I have meet. I have been involved in Toyota, Mustang, VW/Audi, Dodge groups so I have some experience.

Its not what others think, read my original post its the general demeanor of SOME owners. I am stating an observation.

Well said and your right on all points. I have experienced friendly people in AutoX groups now that you mention it, funny but hose guys are only at the AX events lol. Never see too many "high" end cars there really mostly guys with 996's and older 911's ripping up the course.

Love the pecking order... I've been around P cars since 79, when I bought at the ripe old age of 21 my first 911. 72 T, with a 69 E engine...I didn't know about the motor swap until one day I came into the d'ship I was working for--Rexroat P/A in East Moline, IL after driving over 100mph to get there on time from Peoria and noticed my exhaust was literally white. I'd just changed plugs that weekend (for a 2.4T) and discovered I was lucky to not have holed a piston in the 2.0E due to differences in heat range...I rolled that car about 6 mos later when I discovered trailing throttle oversteer at night doing about 110 around a long sweeper in the country and realized they'd dug a trench across the road...i survived and the roll was slow enough that I drove it home-- headlight pointing to the night sky, windshield busted, and roof crunched.
I digress. Point is, from that age on, I was hooked on the inherent quality of Porsches (I was able to repair that car and drove it for a couple of years-- then my brother took it) and since then, have owned a 356 T5 Roadster, (rue that decision to sell!) a real 914-6, several later 911's and still own my 73 E S/R coupe since 1989...that was my track mate for 20 years--mainly Midwest so perhaps there's something to be said for Midwst peeps... when early 911's started to get stupid expensive, I retired and picked up lan 03 986S. The point of the post, I reckon. My experience is I think its what YOU make of it... 914 owners used to be the lowest rung, then 924's (77-79) however, enthusiasm trumps all. We all started the car journey somewhere. The first outing with the box? We spun a bearing. (Crappy inherent design which really was a HUGE disappointment) 20 years without a mechanical failure in the 911. Yet, I've never felt judged. Maybe because I've been around it too long. I sold P cars for ten years and personally was responsible for getting a couple of hundred peeps involved with PCA over that time. Most enjoyed it for the camaraderie and the ability to drive the cars at rallys and track events. Get involved and be enthusiastic and you'll get out what you put in-- regardless of what you drive.

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Another member commented here on same thing, yea I actually noticed friendlier guys over on the DE/AutoX side for sure. I think because I am on the younger side they think I have no clue owning a Porsche, not sure.:confused:

Is this the CVR PCA? Everyone I have encountered has been great, and I can assure you I look younger than you.

Do you plan to attend the spring rally?

Some members are bringing up a good point as far as "groups" within PCA that may be friendlier such as the DE and AutoX guys and they are right I actually meet a couple guys there sometime ago now that I think about it. I think the fact that I look like a younger guy may have something to do with it? nothing against age as many owners are "seasoned" and 45 plus years of age.

My line of work its difficult to commit to long events and the 2 kids under 6 makes it worse. I attend a couple events a year. The AutoX guys seemed down to earth. I know what your going to say next that I need to go to more events and "hang" out. Many other groups of enthusiasts I grew up around accepted guys a little better even if they didnt hang out much.

As a few other members have noted there is a definite pecking order in the Porsche groups, I am not the only one that notices. We all enjoy the same marque shouldnt matter if its a 914 or 991. Guess I need to shut up an just drive my car with my car here and there.

Locally, our PCA club has a very high proportion of Boxsters, including a lot of 986s. Maybe it's all the sunny weather year round here. Anyway, as a 987 owner, I've found our club very welcoming. Of course, there are a few narcissists in the club, but they're tolerable and can generally be avoided. My problem fitting in with the club has much more to do with age than model of car. I'm 45 but the club is VERY heavily weighted toward retirees. I always feel like a kid at the table.

The local 4WD Toyota club has been very welcoming too. It's a much smaller club, but it does have more of a family feel to it.

You shouldn't. Most of us feel 16 on the inside. Its just the bodies that are worn. :-)

Ha..!

My wife keeps telling me, "when are you going to grow up..? Your kids are catching up with you" :p

We are all stating observation and my observation was that a lot of posters had issue with Porsche snobbery. As another poster said, this happens in all sort of endeavors. Cars are just one and by no means limited to Porsches. I am a big fan of 986’s and whatever snobbery I’ve seen has been easy to ignore. A further observation; happily, seems the friendlier the Porsche owner, the more they know. Hence, the more I learn. That’s a good deal all the way around.

Oh, I like your cars Anker! Good choices all.

It’s a Ford!
 

So, as a favor my wife and I picked up a friend of my mother-in-law a while back. We happened to be in my subtlety tricked out, mid 5 sec 0-60 2015 Explo Sport. We already knew that this woman cares more about status than breathing.

While seating herself, she remarked ‘what a great looking car, very nice, what kind is it?’ It’s a Ford, I cheerfully replied! She managed a kind of choking, dissapproving ‘oh’, made herself as invisible as possible to the outside world and didn’t say another word the entire trip. It was hilarious.

Haters gonna hate :D

There are lots of jerks out there, but there are a lot of great folks also (including many Porsche folks). Here’s to finding the good ones :cheers:

Stop going to meetings. (Particularly meetings in Connecticut.)

Start going to track days.

You'll get plenty of respect, particularly when you're passing those 911s.

Everybody in our PCA group are very open, friendly and helpful. We have 356's all the way to new 911's. With 914's, 968's, 944's, Panamera's and a guy with a '16 Macan and another guy with a new Cayenne. Plenty of Boxsters in the mix also.

Some people like to keep score. And if they don't remind you of the score periodically, they start to feel inadequate.

Here are my Top 5 secrets to getting along well in a new crowd (whether its the PCA or the PTA, people are pretty much the same everywhere);

1. Make the first move. Be the first to say hi and introduce yourself.
2. Ask more questions about the other person than you answer about yourself. Ask about their car, how they bought it, why they bought that model, and what they like to do with it. Pay attention to what they actually say. Ask intelligent follow up questions that shows that you were paying attention. Don't say anything about yourself unless asked.
3. Mingle. Learn how to work a room (or a parking lot).
4. When asked about yourself, answer quickly with a funny anecdote or very short personal story. People will remember you better.
5. Smile a lot and laugh a bit (don't be too serious). Everyone likes being around someone who is happy and fun to be around.

Last, give it some time. It takes time to build relationships so attend several events and look to say hi to some of the same people each time. Before you know it, they will be looking to say hi to you too.

Ironically I have it coming from my friends who say "You should of at least got an S"

Umm...you've never even driven a Porsche, let alone a Boxster S, and you're telling me what I should buy?

I'm a franchised dealer by trade and have been involved in Porsche's all my life. It's astounding the snobbery by people who have never even owned a Porsche...and are telling the dealer what he should buy...when they drive a clapped out Toyota

Buying my Boxster wasn't a status symbol to impress the neighbors. It's what I wanted.

Come down to the south....all good here!

What a great thread! Thought I'd throw in my $.02

I couldn't give two ****************s what anyone thinks of the cars I drive. lol.

There, just thought I'd share in an exercise of brevity.

Have a nice day.

The ***************** in shorthand should read f u c k s.

Thank you.

great thread!

I was in Trader Joes parking lot on Sunday and I pulled up next to a beautiful 911 to park my beat up Boxster.

The guy got out of the car and stood there just giving me a scowl like I have not seen in a long time.

He was one of THOSE guys (you know the kind, with his shirt collar turned up) I was kind of dumb founded at how angry he looked that a guy with a car like mine would park next to him.

The nerve!

But boy, was I wrong on my judging by appearance.

He came over to me as I was getting out of the car and said, "You know what, my car may cost a lot more but yours is a lot more fun to drive. My kids gave me time at The Porsche Experience in LA and I got to drive a Boxster for the first time and I loved it. Now I want one, too and I'm wondering if you could recommend what year I should look for"

My jaw fell to the floor.
Turned out to be a really nice guy.

I wanted to ask him to put his collar down, but I didn't.