Afraid of the answer.....

[robdelorenzo]

Update:
I just took the car out to get new oil, a filter, and run a few more errands.
Along the way each time I stopped I sat down next to the ground near the passenger rear tire to listen for hissing or dumping coolant. I did not see or hear anything.

I live at the top of a steep canyon and as I was driving up the canyon the temp gauge rose a bit higher than it's (formerly?) normal temp of around 180. This time it was more like 190. It is a very hot and humid day here in Socal so that may account for some of it.

Anyhow, as soon as I pulled into the garage, guess what? Hissing and coolant started dumping out of the overflow. I had the wire in the up position the entire trip and I could hear air escaping from that valve. The coolant level in the tank is now is down to a bit more than 1/3 (from dead in between max and min) but certainly lower than it was when I started. At one point, while I was doing my errands I saw that the entire coolant bottle looked like it was full. It was almost all the way up to the black plastic.

I'm new to this car and new to all this. I'm learning what "normal" is from this forum.

Please let me know what's going on and if this is all part of the bleeding process or if I do in fact have some sort of coolant or circulation issue going on.

The oil is draining and looks pretty black to me. This is probably from the meltdown last weekend and it had been changed less than 1k miles ago.

Thanks in advance. This ought to be called Porsche University Online. I'm really learning a lot here!

[Lew]

It would not hurt to pull the bumper at some point and check the radiators for debris. Some cars are driven in the rain and over several years parts of the radiators get clogged with dirt, which will cake up on the radiator which stops air flow. Not to mention leaves, grass clippings, etc When I cleaned mine, I found cigarette butts, a chewing gum wrapper, a small piece of paper, plus many leaves, and some pine needles. No dirt, but I did find a small amout of sand in the lower corners of the radiators. It's just good maintenance! When I drive my car the temperture guage needle sits the with of the needle past 180. Never any higher even when the A/C is running. I might add, the temperture guage is watched more than any other on my car.

[911monty]

Were you able to positively identify the purge valve leaking? You said air but should be steam? When it is actively leaking you should be able to see from where. The purge valve is not supposed to leak externally. If it does it will need to be replaced. That's why I've suggested this for the 3rd time. You have replaced the cap so it can be ASSUMED the cap is not leaking. I don't like to replace parts needlessly. Is there a white crust around the purge valve. Throw me a bone here.
At this point I believe your leaking is due to heat soak. After your drive when the engine is shutdown Coolant circulation ceases and temp increases from the residual heat in the cylinders. This is normal. However if the system does not maintain pressure such as the purge valve leaking, the coolant will boil, turn to steam and leak. The purge valve can be replaced, but it is more cost and labor effective if it can be identified as the source of the leaking.

On reflection perhaps you aren't aware the overflow hose that you see leaking is the drain hose from the basin cast into the top of the expansion tank, that the coolant cap, dipstick and purge valve are located in. When they leak, liquid is collected and drains out that hose. Yes?

[robdelorenzo]

I'm sorry maybe I misunderstood. Are the purge valve and the bleeder valve the same thing?
It's definitely dumping liquid coolant and not steam and it is coming out from what the mechanic told me was the overflow that dumps above the passenger rear tire.

As it has cooled over the last hour or so, no new liquid drained out, but the tank is now well below the minimum mark and less than 1/3 full again.

No, there is no white crust around the valve or in the oil/coolant fill area. When it's dumping liquid, I don't see anything going on (steam or liquid) in that filling area.
It's all coming out from under the car above the passenger rear wheel.
Which is what the mechanic told me was the overflow while it was on the lift yesterday.
I'm also wondering now if that valve is bad. When I pull up on the wire it doesn't move very far and then when I put the wire back down it doesn't move too far either.
Should it be flush with the top of the valve in the closed position? Because it's not. But you also mentioned that this should release steam and not liquid.
I did hear it gurgling air while the coolant was dumping out, though.
The other part that I'm not clear on is if the valve is defective, should I be seeing the liquid and steam collecting in the basin and then running out through the hose or only as it runs out the hose?

I'm not doing something right, as I'm getting the same results.

I'm obviously not understanding something correctly here, Lew.

But I am learning and I think we are getting closer to where I understand what's going on.

[911monty]

Ahh Good. Yes the purge and bleeder valve are the same thing, it has the wire bail on it. It's purpose is to purge or bleed the air from the top of the radiators and oil cooler so the system is completely fluid packed.
Now the two sources for coolant draining out the drain/overflow hose are the coolant cap and the purge valve. The drain hose attaches to a nipple on the tank which drains this area. The hole is just forward of the purge valve, hard to see but it's there. If the fluid is coming out of the drain hose then one of those two points must be leaking. Do not install the plastic cover over the purge valve. This way next time you hear the hissing open the trunk and see if you can tell which one is leaking. Again if the cap is leaking do not attempt to tighten until the car cools off. Better?

If the cap or purge valve are not leaking then perhaps the hose from the oil cooler you replaced the fitting on is leaking???

[nicecar]

add some distilled water . and keep driving. I had exactly the same thing and as I said
first off and then all the experts said get it on an incline. I backed it up on some ramps and opened the valve and ran it and finally after months of seeing a coolant level up and down it stopped.Good Luck

[nicecar]

Best advice was the jfp in pa expert says get someone who knows what they are doing and pull a vacuume....done

[robdelorenzo]

Ok. Thanks. I'm really beginning to understand. Yes, the hose BEHIND the firewall on the coolant tank is where the liquid is leaking from.
So, I am going to keep an eye on that bleeder valve as well.
I'm not sure if it's defective or not.
On the Pelican page the following reviews describe my valve pretty well:
Pelican Parts - European Automotive Parts and Accessories - Porsche • BMW • Mercedes • Volkswagen • Audi • Saab • Volvo • MINI

I did buy "The German" bottle and not The Porsche. Lesson learned. No more cheaping out on parts.

If that valve is indeed leaking during the cool down or heat soak, would I see liquid or steam coming out of it?
I do not see steam, condensation, or liquid near the new cap or the bleeder valve, yet the liquid spews by the rear tire.
This morning I did not get the engine as hot, which is probably why it didn't leak as much. This afternoon's leak was about the same as yesterday's.

I'm not sure that rushing out and buying The Porsche valve is a good idea just yet.
I'm also going to keep a close eye on the hose from the top of the oil cooler, as I don't know if that's the culprit.

Besides, Pelican is closed until Tuesday.

[911monty]

I found a thread with a lot of good info dealing with this with pics and everything! Enjoy

http://986forum.com/forums/boxster-general-discussions/56959-ugh-i-need-some-help-identifying-coolant-leak.html

[robdelorenzo]

Thank you!

[BirdDog]

Rob - if you have air in the system it can cause your car to spew coolant via the relief valve in the coolant cap. The coolant will flow down a tube and be dumped in front of your right rear tire.

If you can't find someone that can do a vacuum fill (best solution - as JFP suggested), the next best way to get rid of that air in your system is to get the back of the car up in the air and open the bleeder valve on top of the overflow tank. Park it on a steep downhill or get the back end up in the air using ramps. If you can get the back end up it will burp out the air and it will stop spewing coolant.

You should also make sure that your coolant cap is one that ends in a 4. Heck, they are cheap enough - change it anyway.

Just my 2 cents...

Bill

[robdelorenzo]

This just in.....

I changed the oil and filter and the car does run well.

But (there's always a catch here) I think the mechanic is right in that there is a circulation problem. I jacked the rear of the car and got under it while it's running.
There is a steady stream of drips of coolant constantly coming out. When the car is moving they vaporize so quickly that I don't see them. When I get the car hot enough or when the heat soak occurs, it really starts dumping coolant.

From what I can gather it seems like it's more than just an air bubble. Tonight after the oil change when I took it out for a very brief drive (I am getting wiser here) the temp gauge almost immediately went up to 180 before I even got out of the driveway. (It's never done that before it used to take a while to get up to temp)

So now my questions are centered around why there is a constant dumping of fluid.
The mechanic told me that the cap is designed to vent at 15 psi or thereabouts. So what is causing this to happen?

So far my hypotheses as to why this is happening after the meltdown are:

1. The impeller blades melted or broke off and are clogging the radiator, the thermostat or worst of all a coolant channel in the engine.

2. The thermostat was destroyed in the melt down and is permanently closed and not allowing coolant to circulate.

3. The water pump is bad and/or the impeller does not create enough coolant flow.

4. The radiator(s) are damaged or clogged from the melt down.

5. The bleeder valve is permanently open and is allowing air into the system. Should the little part that rises when you lift the wire go back down to being flush with the top of the valve when it's closed? The rubber in it is of really poor quality and the wire keeps coming out of the holes and is ripping the side of the piece that it lifts up and down. If this were the case, would the coolant or steam be coming out from under the valve where I wouldn't see anything?

6. It's still possible that there's air in the system, but would it constantly be leaking coolant (which it is as I have now confirmed) if this were the case or would it just dump occasionally as I had thought it was doing?

7. A pressure test was suggested, but I know that the coolant overflow hose is where the leak is coming from. If it's the thermostat or internal problems in the engine that's not going to help diagnose anything, is it?

8. The coolant tank has gone bad. I kind of doubt this one, as it's even dumping coolant on start up from stone cold and it's bone dry in the trunk. The ONLY place where it leaks is the overflow hose.

9. I can't think of anything else!

The strange thing is that tonight, as soon as I started the engine, there were drips of coolant coming out of the tube. From a stone cold start and it only started to flow more as the engine heated up. I had not noticed that happen before in the last few days since the mechanic fixed the pulley and belt.

This is very frustrating, but also kind of a fun (albeit expensive) challenge and a good learning experience. I plan on owning a Boxster of some sort until they pry it out of my old feeble hands many years down the road. So this knowledge is invaluable.

The question is where is the most logical and cheapest place to start given these symptoms? The temp gauge does not go into the red or even above 190 which is higher than it used to be prior to the meltdown. This is as it's spewing fluid out of the overflow.

I realize that I still may have an engine that's going to have a cracked head or cylinder looming in the future as a result of my idiotic decision to keep driving during the melt down last weekend. This line of thinking leads to me not putting too much more money into what's going on and walking away after inspecting the water pump and replacing the thermostat and/or the bleeder valve if they are indeed bad.

But, I also have faith that once I can figure out why it's leaking coolant I may have a chance to have many more miles of "Happy Boxstering" ahead. The challenge is to get to that point without going broke first!

Please keep up the flow of good advice. I feel like we are zeroing in on where the culprit may be.

I love this car and want to keep it alive if at all possible.

Thank you!

[Nine8Six]

Looks like its time to bring the car to a mechanic/shop. These folks learn all about car diagnostic and carry most if not all the checks that you've described in this thread. Kind of a second nature to them mate... all it needs is a pressure test kit, which they 'all' have anyway.

Any reason you don't want to give the car to a mechanic? If you want to keep it that's what I'd recommend you to do

[robdelorenzo]

No question that my indy can do it. He's $140 an hour though.

I'd also like to see and do as much as I possibly can before I take it to him as well.

It's a 3 day weekend here and he's not in until Tues anyway.

I also think that the more information I can give him, the better.

And hey, I may just stumble on to the solution and save some $$

When he gave me the new cap on Friday and I called him to tell him i was still leaking his reply was, "This is where it gets complicated"

I survived cancer, I'll survive this.

Thanks for the solid advice nine8Six

[Nine8Six]

Originally Posted by robdelorenzo

No question that my indy can do it. He's $140 an hour though.

Totally feel you. That is the main reason I've purchased a VW Lavida 1.4TSI under warranty. I just can't afford to drive a Porsche everyday man, even less afford to buy a new one under warranty. One day I will tough One day lollll

Try to see if you can get a (cheap) pressure test kit with a Porsche adapter for less than $40~50. If this exist?... Harbor freight? Autozone....

WP is fine imo... the car would overheat instantly if you'd have failed impeller(s). Certainly would run much hotter that what you are describing anyway.

[robdelorenzo]

The reality of my situation is that I am a recent cancer survivor.
I was laid off during my treatments and had been doing delivery work that involved using the vehicle while I looked for a real job.
I was able to afford the necessary maintenance until the meltdown.
I'm at the crossroads now of just how much more I can put into this car to hopefully keep it for a few years while I save up some cash.
Or to cut my losses and get out of it if it's a money pit.

I'd like to keep the trips to the $140/hour guy to a minimum right now while I evaluate what my next move is going to be.

If there are things I can do, I want to try those first.

My experience so far with The Boxster has been good medicine while I recover.

It brings joy into my life and that **************** eating grin that anyone who drives one knows.

That is worth fighting for.

[Froggo]

If you are getting coolant running from the tank overflow pipe it can only come from two sources , the cap or the bleeder valve .You can see both of these if you remove the cover plate below the coolant cap / oil filler cap , neither should leak .As JFP says the only sure fire way to bleed this system is to apply vacuum .If you have a compressor an Airlift vacuum bleeder is about $100 , if you don't I have used a Harbour Freight vacuum brake bleeder $10 and a rubber bung ,a bit slower but it worked ok. Utube the operation detail .I think you still have air in the system , the heater circuit can be the problem as the pipes are at the top of the core
Peter

[Nine8Six]

Originally Posted by robdelorenzo

The reality of my situation is that I am a recent cancer survivor.

Great hope for those who are fighting, thanks for sharing.

Survivor myself. Survived suicide tendencies only one week ago (also Porsche/part/price related lollll). First time it even happen to me and hope it doesn't again. Porsche cars looks so much better when they work. Hope you'll (our indy, I suspect) get it fixed

[robdelorenzo]

Someone on Rennlist suggested that I check the coolant hoses that flow both in and out of the radiators to see if the water pump/thermostat are working.
This makes sense to me and not something I had considered.
He suggested that it be done on a lift, though.
Can I get the front end up high enough to get under it and run it until it's hot enough to get under it and squeeze the hoses that go in and out of the radiators to check them?

This is a good proactive action that I think I want to try.
I still have 2 more days of a long weekend with a car that's really only useful to take to the grocery store at the moment.

Any other tests, ideas, or things that I can check in the next few days would be greatly appreciated. I'm tempted to try and take out the thermostat and even the water pump to see what's going on.

This car is my daily driver and I'm willing to try as much as I can first before going back to the mechanic on Tuesday. Not out of shame or ego, but I'm running out of $ to throw at the problem. There's enough left for one last repair at the moment.
If we can get this leaking problem licked, I am able to keep earning in the mean time to make my next move.

The other issue is that if it is the water pump and missing impeller blades are clogging water channels somewhere in the engine, am I correct in my thinking that it's really then just a matter of time until the thing grenades on me? If so, then I cannot sink much more $$ into the car.

Agonizing to say the least.

I'm not spilling my guts here for :ah:

I'm just being as honest as I can possible be so I can formulate a plan working with what I have for the best possible outcome.

There are people here with decades of accumulated knowledge about these cars that are willing to share it freely and I'm grateful for their help.

[911monty]

Well since it's been too damn hot for golf or driving the Box (115 deg yesterday) I guess I'm your Huckelberry, if you're interested.
While your temperature sender apparently needs to be changed I think we still need to verify the leak issue. I have attached a few pics since they're far better than words. So to be clear, your leakage looks exactly like the last pic in the thread I attached yesterday? From the same hose? Maybe this is simple but long range troubleshooting and assumptions don't work. You can verify by having someone pour water into this area while you observe it draining out the hose from below.

In this image I am pointing to the drain. As you can see the only sources (normally) are the cap and the purge/bleed valve.


In this image you can see the tank is two pieces bonded together. The forward nipple is the nipple for the drain to the manifold where it passes thru the trunk. If you look closely you can see that this nipple has very little clearance between it and the tank. There is a possibility this seam has failed here from the overpressure and is leaking coolant. If you can with engine running,and coolant leaking, look down into that hole and see if coolant is coming between the seam. As long as the cap and purge assembly are not leaking, then this really is the only point coolant can drain to that hose.