The Nine8Six (the car) is dead, can't start
 

1997 Porsche Boxster, automatic/tiptronic, 2,050 Horsepower.

Decided to take the roadster to drop by my office this morning (good weather finally, 27dC). Was in the mood! Car haven't ran for 2 months and now it can't start.

Problem:

1. The door-lock button/switch in the horseshoe is lit up red, pressing it has no effect. Doors lock and unlock fine with the key only.
2. Both seat heater buttons on my armrest are kind of flashing inconsistently, as if there is a short
3. The windows does not drop anymore
4. Nine8Six (the guy) is out of his mind
5. Nine8Six (the car) is all f'ed up

Background:

1. had water (semi-flood) coming inside the back of the passenger seat a few months ago due to heavy rain. That got resolved and the car appears to be completely dry atm.
2. I always disconnect the NEG terminal from the battery when I park it for long duration so that it doesn't drain the whole thing. Battery is currently showing 12.38V

Immobilizer? ECU? Worst? Do I need to take the day off and drop by the P dealer to grab the silver 718 sitting in the showroom?

Round up the usual suspects, ignition switch?

man.. nooo, the trunk pop open when I plug in the NEG battery terminal, just unplugged/plug the battery terminal 5min ago. This thing is all screwed up, I'm worried... staying home to fix this thing or my head won't be straight. Just need it to start so I can send it off to the dealer

Can someone come to Shanghai today start my boxster please. I can cook great Chinese food for you

That would be my first guess too. I'd check the immobilizer. Not only because that has a tendency to cause issue, but also because it's so easy to check. Most bad immobilizers I've seen showed obvious signs of corrosion inside them.

Anyone knows if there is any connector(s) under the carpet that could have been compromised by water/corrosion? I'm aware that automakers loves to run harnesses all over the place under those floor carpet and insulation. Could this cause all kinds of shorts in the system?

Assuming the immob is fine here as I can't recall having it submerged (flooded). I'll start removing the seat to give that immob a check regardless but if you are aware of any harness(es) or corroded conn that could cause all of this ghost stuff please let know where to look for... I'll rip off that carpet in an hour if I have too.

thanks in advance guys

Man sorry to hear. Pretty sure it's the slushbox......HAHA. My money is this is residual from the soaking previously. I'd check the connection to the immobilizer and clean well I'm thinking corrosion??? Disconnect the battery first.


edit well we seem to have a consensus.

Rex, Woody, NineOneOne

Thx folks, be right back... let me get that seat off there... think its only 4 bolts and the conn to the seat heater.

(stupid car. Auto-Trunk Open feature enabled... go figure )

Classic bad immobilizer symptoms. If the immobilizer was fixed, double check it, then take your time carefully cleaning every last connector pin and socket.

What a f n pos car and day. They placed a computer where water easily built-up... and about 25 people saw me pulling a seat out of porsche car while sweating. man that's not how its supposed to start when you feel roadster :/

Took seat off, wiggled the 2 harnesses that plug to the immob like all good tech do lollll, plugged back the batt (strangely no trunk pop this time) try to start and nothing - not a click.

Immob was covered with condensation droplets between the flooring sheet metal and enclosure. Unfortunately I've brushed off the thick white powder/corrosion (oxi, whatever) it had around the pins/solder before snapping the pics so it doesn't look that bad on the pics below, but it was devastating to see folks. You can clearly see some pretty ugly damage on the last pic

Now what, read $3k for that made in Philippine pcb, and I-Dont-Have-$3k L0l0L :mad:

http://986forum.com/forums/uploads02/011503884278.jpg

http://986forum.com/forums/uploads02/021503884285.jpg

http://986forum.com/forums/uploads02/031503884291.jpg

Always so delicate Charles. What about setting it on fire for the amusement of forum986.com.

Drying it using special tooling right now; my wife's hair dryer. I'll brush off as much as I can but me don't think this will do anything (see white spots everywhere on the 20/y/old pcb). Lost hope of the day, pissed, depressed, and suicidal. there

Do I need to reflow some of the rusted 'welding' on this thing with fresh solder? how does corrosion affect components, especially the pins which seems to rust quite easily on this board. Does/can the pin occasionally detach from the solder?

I'll dry first and try this out in a hour see if miracles are real :/

PM Qmulus. He has repaired these and/or swapped essential data from a bad pcb to a good one. Quality work.

...just have to wait on the China Post.

Easy DIY. I'm sure Fred could do it. Just need a replacement immobilizer, the correct EEPROM reader and 10-20 minutes. ;)

I helped someone does theirs about a month ago and he probably had never even changed his own oil.

YEEPROM what?? Man your dreaming I don't do epromm flashing... got frills just to think about it. Just hung up with my P service officer and it looks like replacement unit required + reprog. They are happy to flash it for me they say, takes 10min apparently? No idea what else he was rumbling about, lost my mind at that stage... so I've politely interrupted him and said "your Boxster suck, its a damn swamp". He replied: just bring it in!

I replied: I CAN"T ITS ALREADY DEAD

I'll report back.... drying this philippines rusty green thing on my kitchen table

Thanks for the heads up, got a feeling I'll be chasing the schematic for the locking mechanism and ignition sooner than later :/ Let's hope he is familiar with the 986 immob. Would be fab if this could be just re-wired up with 1 or 2 jumper leads and a little bit of solder LOLLL

Qmulus, What's his good man name, you know?

Sent a pm regarding code name Qmulus.
The data that is specific to your car is on a single ic. From what I understand it is not reprogrammable in the immobilizer (not eeprom). Rather, the DME can be programmed to it. What Q does is de-solder and transfer that little piece of magic from one immobilizer unit to another.
Sure that the great-and-powerful Nine8Six can do it selfie. Just opening a box I only see 2 ic's of interest and I already know it isn't the bigger of the two.

http://986forum.com/forums/uploads02/041503895483.jpg

The Great-Looser-whine86 is going to cook Porsche car Immobilizer for August 28th 2017. Right there, on my front garden China polished rocks! Hope they are of volcanic origin....

Wife told me to go for an afternoon nap and all my problem will disappear lolll Cute thing. Instead, I'm ramming this back in the car and will give it a swing once the pcb cooled down (must have endured 90+dC for an hour + hair dryer for 20min).

Wife also told me this is a punishment from the Boxster God for having showing off like a dumbass on the internet. Not so cute thing after all :D

Thanks for the PM man, appreciated. And yes that Porsche Eng was telling me about something DME also but seriously, I've already lost it when he was.

Man... my Super Duper Baby CGT eBay-Resined Boxster :/ why me why me.....

Not the case...the EEPROM is read/write. This is personal experience, not speculation. Certain people that repair these immobilizers at a rate of hundred$ for 10 minutes of work don't want the average Joe to know how simple it is. :D

As I stated, I just walked someone through the process via text message. It is very simple. His car is now running great and all immobilizer functions are back to normal. ;)
{part# removed}...exact # varies by model.

'97 for your reference/record below Charles. And can you please source/fabricate us a sealed enclosure that the Immob fits into? (please). You'll save so many great Boxsters and 911... these things are nearly shot man, or soon will be if not taken care right away. Take my word... not exactly cheap :/

http://986forum.com/forums/uploads02/051503897526.jpg

http://986forum.com/forums/uploads02/061503897807.jpg

^ Look at that corrosion build up... 20 years (or possibly 22 years, not sure loll)

The Nine8Six (the car) is dead, can't start
 

Lot's of interesting suggestions, all missed the most basic thing. You said you haven't driven the car in 2 months. If the alarm was on, your battery is too low to start the vehicle. Happened with my 2001 just this week and after only 3 weeks of not being driven. Jump start it, drive around for 30 or 40 minutes and you're likely good to go. If the battery was disconnected, that does not mean the battery is good. 12.3 or so volts sounds right but, that's not under a load. Test the battery before going for expensive and likely unnecessary repairs.

You missed it, Robert. Read post #1. ;)

You have no idea how hard it is to jump start a 2,050 horsepower Boxster, Rob ;) Batt is brand new from 2016, from Porsche (in special, of course). But will take your advice and drive it as soon as it starts.

Thanks for helping me out bud :cheers:

I haven't tried the now dried Immob in the car yet. I'm actually petrified it explode. INstead I took my wife's advice and crashed for an hour. Pretty hard to get the adrenaline drained out after something like that man... especially a $3,500 part/labour. Makes it even worst when you actually find out that the part itself (immob) has roughly $27 worth of Tokyo, Manila and Taiwan components and a $10 PCB, but sold back at 1000% profit :/ F'(ed) up stuff.....

Anyway, took some the out for souvenirs before the explosion lollll I'll report 2mrw when the carpet is 'dried' from that topless night (placed chopsticks under the carpet holding parts of it straight up), I'm done for the day though. Thanks for all the support and help so far folks. Great people - great forum.

:cheers: :cheers: :cheers:

PS: The Boxster is NOT a pos, was really mad and out of myself when I wrote that. My sincere apologies guys.... shouldn't happen again.

http://986forum.com/forums/uploads02/091503919412.jpg


http://986forum.com/forums/uploads02/071503919431.jpg


http://986forum.com/forums/uploads02/081503919445.jpg

stupid car though.... plug the batt NEG and the trunks pops up. Bloody funny but not funny at the same time :/

Fred,
You might look into a waterproof immobilizer case from ECU doctor. I haven't installed one myself, but I think anyone who parks their 986 outdoors should probably go this route...

Porsche Boxster & 996 Immobilizer Waterproof Case Enclosure

Just saw this thread. I think the immobilizer under the seat is the "IMS bearing" of the 986/996 electrical system. A lot of Boxsters have been needlessly totalled as a result of this VERY stupid design to put a critical electronic device on the floor in a roadster. The first thing to do if you get water on the floor is to disconnect the immo or battery. The damage results from power being applied while the module is wet, as you get a kind of "electrolysis" which turns the metals on the board to metal salts, which will not stop until either the power is removed or the circuits open up.

As for the repairing it, it is good that you got it out and dried out ASAP. The problem is, if it gets to the point where functions start to fail, you have corrosion under the relays. The ONLY way to fix that is to desolder the relays, clean it up thoroughly (soap and water with a brush is good), dry it and repair the damage. That may include replacing relays. I would also replace the electrolytic cap any time the immobilizer gets wet.

I have a few immobilizers where the corrosion under the relay was not repaired and the traces under the relays got thin enough that they burned. That is a death sentence for the PCB as the board turns to carbon and conducts. While it is possible to repair the holes (BTDT all the time in a former life - cut out all burned areas, re-fiberglass, then put in new traces and vias.), I wouldn't bother, as you can almost always find used ones. FWIW, one of my first jobs out of school was working at an electronics company that did disaster recovery on main frame computers. I still remember getting a "mission critical" computer (DEC MicroVAX) that was in flood that was shipped in a big plastic crate full of water. It was better to leave it wet, and then disassemble it down to individual components. Even the disk drives were soaked, but we got all the data and rebuilt them another machine using most of the parts from their original. That job paid six figures as I recall, but the customer gladly paid. But I digress...

Yes, you can usually swap the EEPROM or EEPROM data from one module to another, as long as they are the the same part number. I do have a good memory map of where the various codes for the vehicle are (remote transponder codes, "learning" code, immobilizer code, etc.) I did find one immo where there was a firmware difference making the EEPROM data incompatible between two immos of the same part number. In that situation I had to rewrite the data in the proper format, so knowing where the necessary information to transfer was necessary. I find this situation is more likely when you go to a new immo.

So, for Fred I would recommend disassembling the immo, clean it with a brush and soap and water (it already got wet, right?), getting off ALL the visible corrosion (metal salts) as that stuff is conductive. You really need to get under the relays, as just spraying electrical cleaner, etc. will not get that corrosion out, and the only way to do that is to remove the relays.

As for my user name Qmulus, I have been using that on internet sites for 20 years and it is also the name of my company. I do this kind of work as a part of my business, but I honestly don't make much from it as this stuff take WAY more time to do than I can ever charge for. I see it more of as a "community service", but I can't do it for free.

Steve
Qmulus Technology

Like this?

Porsche Boxster & 996 Immobilizer Waterproof Case Enclosure

Interesting. A reset EEPROM?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCnpQvEWL_U

First of all, I feel your pain... Sure I´m not the only one, this really sucks...

However, is this not the perfect time for the thread we have all been praying for (secretly)..?

"Custom Waterproof Immobilizer for Porsche 986 [from CAD, prototyping to finish]" Go Fred Gooo!

Ugh. Good luck, Fred. Hope you get it sorted quickly!

Sorry for laughing at this thread Fred, but you are one funny Sum-n-a-********************!

p.s. your wife sounds like a cracker as well.

Quick question... Did you do the "donor battery - fuse box" method to originally open the frunk? I ask beause I did (a year or so ago) on a totally dead Box and ended up with a world of electrical gremlins. Took a while to investigate and fix, but eventually all resolved (had to buy a new climate module though)...all good now except climate unit still blinks on startup.

I mention this because when I asked on forum, I got the same answers... "ignition switch", "immoblilizer" etc; I ruled out immoblilizer (or moved it down on list) because I didn't want it to be that. Ignition switch... I thought not as bad, but but I'll keep looking. I found a couple bad fuses and a relay, which I replaced. Car ended up starting, but I kept blowing one fuse, wich lead me to disassemble the climate unit and inside I found a shorted board.

Anyway, and I am sure you know this, but start at the easiest thing, don't assume the worst, be a good detective and I'm sure you will find the answer.

Or maybe it's just the immoblilizer... Or the ignition switch.

As always, best wishes.

I keep a spare set of ECU/immobilizer/key fob on hand at all times. If you can buy the same year, then no PWIS programming is required - its an easy 10 min DIY swap of all three components together as a matched set.

A set will typically sell for $500-$700.

I read the first post, the immobilizer is under the drivers seat so, dismissed the water under the passenger seat as an issue. Basic trouble shooting is to go from simple to complex, not the other way round, hence my suggestion. A battery can be new and have sat on a shelf for many months before sale. ALWAYS, test the battery first. Next, test for current draw. Then, test ECU/Immobilizer for issues. If you go the opposite direction, you needlessly spend time and money when it may be as simple and cheap, as a battery cable. My own Boxster S (2001 3.2L) had a very low battery after 3 weeks of not being driven. Same symptoms. Hooked up a charger for a few hours, turned the key and she started right up.

2,050 horsepower? On what planet? Brand new battery is meaningless. Brand new, can fail just as often and as quick as 3 years old or more. You've no idea how long that battery sat on a storeroom shelf before it was sold to you. I do diagnostics on computers every single day, it's my living. Batteries and such issues are no difference. Simple to complex is the proper order. Eliminate the simple before moving onto something complex. While it could be, the immobilizer, it's far more likely something much higher on the chain is the actual culprit. As I said in a previous post, my own, 2001 Boxster S did the same thing after 3 weeks of not being driven. A few hours charge and she was back up and running.

Yikes.

Yeah...I'm fairly sure it's the immobilizer. :D
You really ought to read every post on a thread before commenting. His battery is fine.

Robert, my battery is the Best-in-the-World! Well, you know what I mean by that. Made in Tacalloo (new country), and marked up 1000%. Fits well though ;)

http://986forum.com/forums/uploads02/101503991293.jpg

What you said totally make sense and I should have charged up the battery before to rule this out. I actually did today just to give it a better life than it had. And you are so right man, often the silliest things we forget are often the cause of bigger problem(s). Always best to keep a down to earth approach when doing car diagnostic. Although pretty hard to achieve when you know zero about Porsche cars (my first Porsche man).

All I know is when electronics starts flashing and resisting in porsche cars, it either the audi $10 switch or the windshield washer fluid gone bad lollll As hard as I tried to believe it wasn’t the immobilizer, trust me I did tried :/

Keep up the great advice man :cheers:

preetee pics, as always....
 

Immob back in car, car start normally (amazingly?), but everything else fails; locking/remote mechanism, windows, etc etc don’t know what else, don’t care. Windshield washer pump and brake lights works super well though :/ man it xux

Steve (Qmulus Technology) thanks for jumping in – way too kind. The information you’ve published is already invaluable to the community, thanks so much. Same goes to the folks who can tweak and flash those YEEPROMM. Pretty amazing the wealth of knowledge and skills we have on this forum.

Saying skills; to reverse engineer and go as far as removing 20y old crispy components (relays, caps, whatever else it'll need), or flashing chips, you need that guy with 30y experience and with some preety damn solid ‘skills’. The problem is not much knowledge, it’s about NOT screwing up (zero/nada) anything in the process LOLLL So if this happens to you, place your brain where it normally goes and hire the folks who knows what they are doing. DO NOT ATTEMPT BY YOURSELF (you’ll screw up something and create more problems I promise LOL).

http://986forum.com/forums/uploads02/111503991710.jpg

Steve was spot on though. You can trace back those relays to that Toshiba driver and much all pins from that are high. Consistent with what happening in the car (solid ugly RED lights on every switches).

So now my current status is passed well beyond suicidal, not sure what it’s called but it doesn’t feel right – my boxster is dead for the first time, OUCH lollll My indy found a replacement ($300) but said don’t expect it to be less damaged than yours (+dealer’s pst/piwis, + whatever else they have at $3000 for sale there I’m sure…).

The (only) other option is the cleanup, repair and/or get a fresh set of relays (clearly). Steve – give me a week to figure out if the guys can do this here if not, check your mail next week and slip me in your schedule if you can man. I’d really appreciate if it comes to this.

Wait until I've drafted the "What I've Learn from the Immobilizer - in a swampster" thread. That's going to go online very soon

That whole heavy rain thing, parking outdoor, covers, humidity, dehumidifier technique (BS btw), permanent markings/discoloration of aftermarket "porsche" carpets onto savanah beige flooring, immobilizingzer, and all the trouble.... will have cost me what my car worth in your neighborhood man.

We are ordering a brand new carpet from Porsche, hope those comes dry? All at the formal request of my wife... she is royally pissed right now, its her boxster too also :/

THANKS TO ALL who've provided some of the best advice RE this problem. You guys rocks. 100% certain a lot of us is learning right now so please let the Tips & Trick loose fellas. Great info for everyone here

Nice find. Couldn't find the submerged in a fish tank test/video anywhere though. Does it work? Although I probably won't need it. The Boxster is 'urgently' going back inside... at my wife's company indoor & environmentally controlled parking lot ladies and gent (just heating during winter months). Cost me $200/year... and that's a special price. Covers the security guards and others (nothin free in life man)

Not sure what a new carpet set goes for but I can't imagine it being cheap. If it's not too late, I recommend just taking out the wet one and letting it hang dry. It takes about a week in a nice dry climate. Don't put it in direct sun light as that will fade the carpet and turn the foam brown. I've never noticed any mildew smell either after letting it dry. It sounds like you have the time.