Does brand of IMS make a difference?
 

So it looks like I am going to give in and replace the IMS before I sell the Boxster. That said, does it make any difference which brand I pick to install? I am tending towards a roller bearing version i.e. Vertex or MB but don't want the brand to put off potential buyers.
I don't have anything against LN since I have one in my 996 but it kind of feels like a scam the whole 5 years or 50k miles thing.....
Thoughts?

:matchup: .

Any of the roller or ball bearing retrofits are going to have a defined life span, so they will have to be replaced at some point. Regardless of their advertising, roller bearings units also have no more load carrying capacity than a quality ball bearing unit, so they actually are no stronger or resistant to wear. LN has also recently increased their suggested replacement for their ceramic hybrid bearings to 75K miles.

If you want to get away from having to look at retrofits and maintenance items, consider the IMS Solution, which is an oil fed solid bearing, and is a permanent, life of the engine retrofit. We are doing more of them than ever now that the Solution is available in a dual row design as well.

I'm on original bearing and from what I can see I'll just replace it with a new one from Porsche. It would seem to me that the OEM has more unfailed miles than all the other systems combined and is a fraction of the price.


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Do you mind sharing the statistic that you are quoting? Or is this purely conjecture?

Does brand of IMS make a difference?
 

Purely conjecture but I believe there are many more out there with non failed bearings than failed. The web lends itself to the doom factor. I have read lots of threads etc and the max % I have seen for failed bearings is 20% but from majority of articles it seems even 10% may be on the high side.

So even if we take 20% then that's 80% running on OEM bearings with no problems. Based on that info I'm going to speculate that the miles on OEM bearings is substantially greater than the third party ones, so for me I think I'll take those odds and install a new OEM bearing when the time comes to change the clutch.

I could be totally wrong and if I am then the jokes on me but until then I've decided to enjoy driving and working on the car as worrying about all the what ifs don't help.

Again, this is just my opinion and I'm not suggesting anyone follow it, it's just the route I've decided to take that works for me.


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Hopefully, you are aware that the only IMS bearing you can buy from Porsche is the third design oversized unit, and it only comes pre installed in a shaft and will require total disassembly of the engine to install it.

Good luck.....

Didn't know that so guess my options have been severely limited now. Just thought it'd be possible to buy the OEM part but there you go. "Every day is a school day!"


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Just...
 

...stop worrying and buy the "IMS Solution" and start enjoying life.

I did.

I do.

:cheers:

Guys...
If you're going to respond to the OP, at least read post #1.

He's considering doing this to make it easier to sell, not for his own peace of mind. Any LN product is going to cost more than he will get in return when it sells (unless he installs it himself).
I think your best option is to keep trying to sell it as is.

So the OP wants to create the widest possible audience and the least resistance on the part of the buyer.

The best known brand name is LN. The kit cost is in the $700 range but by the time an experienced mechanic does the job, the bill often climbs to $2k.

Will the OP recover that when he sells? Probably not. But it may sell faster and for a bit more compared to a car that didn't have the replacement.

An alternative is price the car $1k below what it would sell for with the IMS replaced. Hope someone not knowledgeable buys it at that price. If someone knowledgeable comes along and wants a PPI, have them pay for the PPI and if the PPI includes a filter drop or even a pan drop, the buyer is welcome to make his choice of IMS bearings and pay for it himself/herself. The OP will have contributed to the cost of the IMS but not had the risk of doing it and then not recovering the cost.

As a buyer, I'd rather buy that way because then I'd know that the replacement was done as a preventative measure and not after the original had contaminated all the oil passages and ground down all the other bearings.

That's what my 996 is for....

The issue is buyers don't want the hassle or to have to pay. They want the job done and not have to worry. Problem is that LN have cornered the market to the point that people see anything else as inferior. Personally i have a problem paying so much for a bearing.

Nedlands.....
 

...if your bearing blows out in West Texas, at 2am, 150 miles from the nearest town, and food and shelter, and your wife is sitting next to you, and it's raining, and coyotes are howling, and 18-Wheelers are blowing by you, and strange, scary looking people are stopping to "help" you, how much money would you pay to NOT be in that place?


Just buy the "solution" and stop worrying.

You folks are looking at these cars all wrong. If you want cheap fun, buy a Miata.

:ah:

And another thing....
 

..."Cornered the market"? Really? A low volume car that is 20 years old? Really? WHAT FREAKING MARKET?????

You think there is enough money in THAT pool for more than a couple of companies to actually engineer, test, and market and support a freaking bearing that a lot of folks don't even THINK they need?

What color is the sky in your world?

Well they made about 340,000 986/996 units combined. Granted, that includes turbos and gt3s that don't have the IMS issue but I would imagine those cars are a small part of the total. I wouldn't say its like the market for a honda civic but I certainly wouldn't call it low volume. They made a ton of these things.

OP, here is the most cost effective bearing if that's what your after. Claimed to be good for 40K. Costs $185

Pelican Parts IMS Bearing Retrofit Kit - PelicanParts.com

Still refusing to read, eh? :D

He's not worried. He's trying to expedite the sale of his car. :rolleyes:

Well.......
 

......if nobody buys the darn thing, if he invests in the solution, he can drive her in peace.

:)

The conundrum is price. If the Solution costs thousands to have installed (even the basic ceramic coated LN is going to cost $2k min installed), and it only gains him $1k on the sale price, it's not worth it.

Better to just drop $1k off the sale price and try to sell as-is, IMO. :)

+1
And replacing the IMS just before sale will make some potential buyers suspicious. Personally, I'd rather buy a known good car and replace it with my choice of bearing.

Sorry. I'll just buy "The Solution". At least then you will sleep happy! Then I will take the money froom the sale of my 3rd car and invest it in the Miata you recommend.
I asked for advice really about whether it matters if I put an LN or Vertex or whatever else kind of IMS in the car. I should have known better than to expect sensible, unbiased advice.
My point about LN cornering the market - originally the retrofit was a lifetime for and forget. Then it changed. Now it is every 75k miles. I would do the same if I had invested time and more importantly $$$$ in developing a product only to see the market size become fixed and smaller after every product sold.
In reality, the bigger issue is that hype about the IMS failure has gotten to the point that people will not take a risk on a car that doesn't have it done as they prefer to not have to take care of it themselves and will pass on a car, unless it us ridiculiusly cheap and we are talking about way more than $1k off.....

I also have a Cayenne and a 996. I have driven the Boxster less than 1k miles a year for the past two years...... even if nobody buys it it's not goiing to get driven any more than it does.... and I am certainly not remotely worried about it failing. If it does it does.....i learned that years ago with Corrado G60s....

Pelicanparts offers a nice little kit for us!

From a buyer's perspective below:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxdvSq_byZw&t=175s

Which needs to be replaced at an even shorter interval (1/2 the miles) than the LN bearing; and with the cost of doing the replacement (labor) being several times the cost of the bearing, becomes questionable from an economic perspective.

I doubt there's anything new to be said about 986 IMS bearings. Everything in this thread could be repeated by selectively copying from other threads. At least oil formulations change, making the "what oil should I use" threads a little more relevant.

The Pelican Parts IMS bearing is virtually the same as the single row bearing that Porsche used (with an improved stud). Perhaps that would have been a more useful answer to Traco than the statement about only being available as a unit including the shaft.
If the IMS bearing is being replaced concurrently with a clutch, the additional labor is trivial (at my personal shop rate).

Here's some good reading with posts from Wayne Dempsey and Mike Focke:
LN vs Pelican IMS bearing replacement - Pelican Parts Technical BBS

To Nedlands: Seriously, you could just type your thread topic into Google and pick the answers you like from there.

and finally, here's a picture of a cat looking up torques in my 986 workshop manual. It's as useful as anything else in this thread. ;)
http://986forum.com/forums/uploads02...1498405524.jpg

Thanks for the input. Smart cat you got there.....

You seriously didn't think I'd recommend anyone else? PP pays for my bandwidth... I'm hosting 1,229,993 and six hundred twelve zillion other pictures on their server lolll

Long life to PelicanParts man - Go Go Go!

Fluffy didn't get the fish fillet today? Who would trust such a huge cat with a look like that. Man feels like he's about to launch and kill you in the face lolll

Forgive me....
 

....if my advice was neither sensible nor unbiased.

It just seems to me, that if you are going to take the time and effort to drop the transmission and replace the IMS, it's not THAT much more money to install the permanent solution instead of a temporary one.

Why would you choose another roller bearing, when there is a replacement out there that uses a plain bearing that floats on oil with no balls or rollers to fail?

The major cost is the labor, not the parts.

You can charge more for the car and not lose any money. As more and more young people buy up these old Boxster and troll these forums for information, there will be a growing market for cars with the "Solution" as folks will want to invest in a car they don't have to worry about.

As far as me being biased, well, yeah, everybody is.

I just don't understand how anyone with any sense of how machinery works would replace one failure prone roller bearing with another one when there is a plain bearing option. And another benefit of the "Solution" is the spin-on oil filter adapter that goes with it for better oil filtration and easier service, and elimination of the possible failure of the OEM drain back system.

I'll shut up now and promise to no longer contribute to these threads.

Good luck.

And Miata's ARE awesome, I had one for 22 years before buying the Boxster two years ago. :cheers:

bc ppl just aren't convinced about the cause of failure. Seeing a drama of relevant products, each enabling a diff unique feature (?!), leads many to believe that a "selection" is therefore made based on luck, not science.

Although, you don't need to be a scientist to understand that all of those products are better than the oem. Proof are all over = NONE FAILED

(we're all ims grown up now loll)

and that's illegal. You say what you say friend, I like reading your post for one

Thanks...
 

...Honestly, I am very sorry for coming across in a non-friendly manner. It's just the nature of printed communication, you can't get the tone across.

Also, I did drop the ball and skimmed over the OP about just searching for a quick solution for a quick and dirty sale of the vehicle. I apologize for that.

I'm just of a nature that makes it hard for me to part with a vehicle and hard for me to not invest in an old car to preserve her for future enjoyment.

I just sold my 1990 Miata that I turbocharged to a nice guy in Chicago for only $2,400. I've dropped $20,000 in that little car over the past twenty years. Did I lose my shirt? Not at all. I learned a tremendous amount about modifying vehicles, drove the car for 250,000 miles, and passed her on to another fellow enthusiast who will get years of enjoyment from her.

For the first time in over 23 years I do not own a Miata. This Boxster is my dream car, and I'm loving every minute. We are taking her to the Grand Canyon soon from our Louisiana home, and can't wait to get busting bugs.

As far as the IMS thing, it's really simple to me, fewer moving parts equals better reliability.

All the best, everyone.

I'm honored to be a part of this awesome community that has helped me tremendously as I enter the second half of my life as a new Porsche owner.

:cheers:

10/10ths....i probably should have been clearer about what I was meaning in my original post. I wasn't taking your responses as unfriendly and excuse my sarcasm about your cat.
I have had my Boxster for 2 years. I have renewed many parts and done most of the maintenance work usually needed except for the IMS and clutch. I have two other cars and don't use the Boxster enough so it needs to find a new owner who will drive it more frequently. My point in posting was that in talking to potential buyers most want the IMS done. I am going to do that but don't want to make a mistake and pick the wrong brand and then have people reject it.the conversation goes:
Buyer - have you done the IMS?
Seller - Yes.
Buyer - which kit did you use?
Seller - XYXZ....
Buyer - Oh.... I want one with AbC..... I'll pass I guess......

I guess I need to know from a buyer perspective if the brand matters or whether it has been doine is sufficient.

And btw.... it's not a quick and dirty sale. I wouldn't have done any .maintenance items if that were the case......

So, i will add my opinion as a potential purchaser of a Boxster and someone that has had a lot of conversation with Nedlands lately about his...Great guy by the way, total car nut and we have a similar automotive history. If we lived closer i think we would get beers and talk about our "Ex's" and which ones we wish we had back.

I had a friend looking at B6&7 S4's with the V8's that have timing chain issues that has erupted into the same "fear" as IMS issues for 986's. Cars without proof the $4-$6k job of pulling the motor and replacing the chains and guides simply were not selling to anyone "in the know". I went with a buddy to look at one that had the work completed with documentation. Saw the car, had a PPI done, the shop doing it was suspect about the paperwork, did some leg work and found the "invoice" was faked and the shop that supposedly did the work actually did not. It was a forgery to sell the car luckily my friend figured it out and reported the ad as a scam.

I tell that story because it is similar to IMS, you cannot simply pull the transmission and check to make sure the work has really been done. However, with LN they have created a system, and as silly as it sounds that sticker they provide stands as proof to many that yes in fact the IMS bearing was done and it is correctly documented and tracked by a reputable company.

So from a buyers perspective, it is a small bit of reassurance when buying a car that has the proof of completion. Secondarily, you can always take very detailed pictures of the swap, and if not using LNE save the old bearing to show there was no real damage and the engine should be safe for the new owner.

Sorry for the long post and aggressive use of "quotes" but wanted to offer an non owners and potential buyers perspective.

Good luck!

Man no apology needed! Your third post and this is well thought out and exactly the information being asked for! Kudos! :cheers:

I had a bad attitude and should have taken a few hours before posting. I think that most of us actually love these IMS threads and always learn more from them.
My apologies. Great community.
:cheers:

Hi Nedlands, speaking as someone who recently bought a 986 after ~20 years away from Porsche, I searched for a 3.2 liter car with the IMS recently done (specifically the LNE, along with many other criteria). The added value of the LNE product is the documentation maintained by LNE. Service invoices can be easily faked, but when you have the service invoice along with the LNE sticker on the door and you can call or email LNE to confirm the bearing, you are as sure as you can be that the IMSB has been appropriately addressed (from a "part used" standpoint, installation competence is a totally different matter).

Are other aftermarket IMSBs as good as LNE products? Who knows, probably yes. But, from a knowledgeable buyers perspective proof is proof and only LNE has a system in place to track their bearings.

Regarding the LNE limited warranty, I sure that they were advised by their legal counsel to set the mileage and year limits.

As for selling price, for me the difference with or without IMSB replacement is not $1,000, it would be more like $3,000. That's to say that, all other things being equal, I would consider a 986 without firm proof of a recent IMSB replacement worth $3,000 less than the same car with proof.

Just my opinion, but I spent my $15.5k on a 986 with reliable proof of the recent IMSB replacement. Eventually, I'll pop for "the solution" because I enjoy the car so much.

I have a slightly different attitude born on similar experience.

I owned a '92 Miata before my '98 Boxster. Huge upgrade, btw. I paid about $5k for the Miata, drove it for 6 years and put another 7K into it during that time...a mix of upgrades (roll bar, frame stiffener...), missed maintenance and stuff that just wears out on a car that old (wheel bearings, water lines...etc.) Sold it for $3,500 with the additional 30k mile I added.

While I agree that you shouldn't expect to get your money back and you should be making mods and fixes for your own benefit (not resale) I also feel I'm not as inclined to spend so much time turning a wrench. I'm at the point in my life I want to drive more and wrench less. Having said that, I'm not ready to fund a mechanics kid's education.

So, with the Boxster, I do what will make the car more reliable (preventative maintenance) and what makes it more fun for me (radio upgrade) but I don't do maintenance that seems unwarranted or is just for resale.

I've got a '98 with the dual row bearing and change the oil regularly (with Porsche approved synthetic) and send it out to Blackstone for checks (they measure the microscopic metal in the oil which will give an alert way before finding shavings in the oil filter.)

I'm going to keep driving it until an oil report tells me differently. If that hurts me a little on resale so be it. I doubt I'd ever recoup the $2k in resale anyway....closer to $3k if I let someone else to it (especially because it isn't a garage queen and will likely be venturing into the 100k territory when I sell it.)

Try this...

1) put the car up for sale and, if you get your asking price, then problem solved

2) if you don't get your asking price, then put the LN in b/c it going to be the one most likely to give buyers the assurance they want.

BTW: someone said it, the $s are in the labor not the parts so why go cheap?

The LN Solution is $1,200.00+ bucks. That isn't exactly cheap.

I was getting my clutch, flywheel replaced so I decided it was a perfect time to do the IMS

went with the LN solution (have the serial number decal for reselling) and so happy I did it. one less thing I have to worry about