718 sales poor - 986 Forum - The Community for Porsche Boxster & Cayman Owners

Cbonilla · 03-26-2017, 05:29 PM

My concern with the 718 is not the car itself or its flat 4 engine. It is that the boxster now has a 4 clylinder engine while the 911 has a 6. Yes I know that the boxster s I bought in 2003 was a 3.2 liter engine when 911s came with larger 3.6s. But it was still fundamentally the same engine (and suffered from the same shortcomings). So for a substantial saving over the 911 you could buy a very similar product. Now they are fundamentally different, and I fear the boxster may be stigmatized. A Poorsche, if you will.

In what month did the 718 boxster go on sale? Are significant numbers of those early months' sales of prior year models? I have to assume that at least some are

algiorda · 03-26-2017, 06:36 PM

I'd take a 718 in a heartbeat. I could care less if it's a 4cyl. I just wouldn't take the depreciation hit. I'll never buy new again.

Perfectlap · 03-30-2017, 07:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by algiorda

I'd take a 718 in a heartbeat. I could care less if it's a 4cyl. I just wouldn't take the depreciation hit. I'll never buy new again.

you could care less that the 718 is missing one of the things you love most about your car? The "guttaral yowl" of the flat six climbing from 3k to 6k RPM?

I haven't driven the VW'esque turbo 4's but by all reviews I read the heart of the engine is no more. Sounds like driving an electric car. Sure it's zippy but you might as well be driving a souped up bumper car at the carnival.

algiorda · 03-30-2017, 07:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

you could care less that the 718 is missing one of the things you love most about your car? The "guttaral yowl" of the flat six climbing from 3k to 6k RPM?

I haven't driven the VW'esque turbo 4's but by all reviews I read the heart of the engine is no more. Sounds like driving an electric car. Sure it's zippy but you might as well be driving a souped up bumper car at the carnival.

Have you looked at the performance specs of the 718? (2017 Porsche 718 Boxster S Sport Chrono PDK: 11.9 1/4 Mile time - Fastest Boxster Ever) I could care less about the growl and more about the finish line. Besides, I think Porsche has done a wonderful job tuning the 718 4cyl exhaust. I will admit the lower end Turbo torque will be some getting used to.

Perfectlap · 03-30-2017, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by algiorda

Have you looked at the performance specs of the 718? (2017 Porsche 718 Boxster S Sport Chrono PDK: 11.9 1/4 Mile time - Fastest Boxster Ever) I could care less about the growl and more about the finish line. Besides, I think Porsche has done a wonderful job tuning the 718 4cyl exhaust. I will admit the lower end Turbo torque will be some getting used to.

yes cars get faster with time. But they don't become more driver oriented because in order to capture that extra tenth of a second on each corner the car must take the driver out of more of the equation. And having been in a wide variety cars I can tell you the more involved over a lap the driver is the more exciting 9 in 10 drivers will be.
Part of that experience is the car letting you know its right there with you audibly and through feedback. Yet the newer the Porsche the more that is blunted.

Give me the Boxster Spyder with the 911S flat 6 engine even if the flat four T is faster over a lap. I doubt you would be able to tell which of the two was the faster lap if you drove both cars until you crossed the finished.
Your getting the flat 4 not because its faster, but because its cheaper to build and less likely to break down in-warranty. Making these levels of power reliably with flat 6 requires a lot more egineer noggin.

BIGJake111 · 03-30-2017, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

Give me the Boxster Spyder with the 911S flat 6 engine even if the flat four T is faster over a lap. I doubt you would be able to tell which of the two was the faster lap if you drove both cars until you crossed the finished.

The flat 4 would feel much faster from what I've read.

However, I agree the spyder is the car I would want.

Perfectlap · 03-31-2017, 06:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BIGJake111

The flat 4 would feel much faster from what I've read.

However, I agree the spyder is the car I would want.

The depreciation curves between the 981 Spyder and the most optioned 781 S's will be night and day.

Giller · 03-30-2017, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

yes cars get faster with time. But they don't become more driver oriented because in order to capture that extra tenth of a second on each corner the car must take the driver out of more of the equation.

So where is the sweet spot? The Model T? Cars built in the 60's? 70's?

I don't agree that cars are taking the driver out of the equation - not completely anyways. Evolution is all around us - enhancements are made and sacrifices are made, but the offset is normally for the better.

cas951 · 03-30-2017, 11:06 AM

I've had the opportunity to drive the 718 S a few times. Not just a road test but at a autocross track and at the Porsche Experience center in LA. The first was at a Porsche 718 playground event at Berkeley, Ca in Aug last year. I managed to be a passenger with a factory driver as well as drive several laps around the autocross track. I'm no aportscar writer and I do lack the ability to describe how the car handles but I can tell you that it's everything we've all read and then some. The power and torque output come to mind. The biggest disappointment is the exhaust tone. PSE or no PSE if you didn't see yourself going in to the Boxster you would have thought you were in a Subaru. This was a huge disappointment for me. In my opinion new buyers won't miss this missing link but previous owners will be disappointed. The 718's ran the tracks all day long and didn't see one break down. Seems to be very reliable.

At the Porsche Experience center one thing i noticed right away is the power of the 718 S. The 718 S actually kept up with the 911 on the straights and caught up quickly by the first turn. By the second lap he was asked to let me pass him. I tried to do the same on a 911 turbo. Well, you know the outcome on that one but I did manage to catch up to it towards several turns later.

Perfectlap · 03-31-2017, 07:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Giller

So where is the sweet spot? The Model T? Cars built in the 60's? 70's?

I don't agree that cars are taking the driver out of the equation - not completely anyways. Evolution is all around us - enhancements are made and sacrifices are made, but the offset is normally for the better.

This is the sort of thing where I wish some car magazine would take an aircooled Porsche and let a factory pro drive the car and then give it to a weekend warrior. Note the spread between their lap times. Now take the latest flavor of the day water cooled Porsche and do the same test at the same track with a pro and amateur and note the spread as a % over the aircooled's spread. When the 996 first came around we saw weekend warriors coming within a second or two of the factory drivers. It would be very revealing to see how the 718 fares in that regard since the S is already as fast (if not faster) than the GT4.

Giller · 03-26-2017, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cbonilla

My concern with the 718 is not the car itself or its flat 4 engine. It is that the boxster now has a 4 clylinder engine while the 911 has a 6. Yes I know that the boxster s I bought in 2003 was a 3.2 liter engine when 911s came with larger 3.6s. But it was still fundamentally the same engine (and suffered from the same shortcomings). So for a substantial saving over the 911 you could buy a very similar product. Now they are fundamentally different, and I fear the boxster may be stigmatized. A Poorsche, if you will.

In what month did the 718 boxster go on sale? Are significant numbers of those early months' sales of prior year models? I have to assume that at least some are

Stigmatized? A fully kitted out Boxster is still going to cost over $100K....that's not a poor man's car. And while yes, you can certainly get one cheaper if you drop some of the bells and whistles, it still ain't cheap. And remember - the Cayman, possibly Porsche's best sports car, is even cheaper than the Boxster.

Pdwight · 03-26-2017, 08:01 PM

You can buy a new Corvette for a lot less money, for around the same money a superior car (IMHO) a GTR.....Boxsters should hit the market for about the same US dollars as a corvette .

Porsche9 · 03-26-2017, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pdwight

You can buy a new Corvette for a lot less money, for around the same money a superior car (IMHO) a GTR.....Boxsters should hit the market for about the same US dollars as a corvette .

While I like both the C7 and the Boxster/Caymen I would not cross shop the two. The GTR is also very different and at a base price of about $110k s more expensive than a Boxster.