Thoughts on 03/04 BS vs 00-02 BS for autocross

[Rotmilky]

I'm hoping you guys can provide some useful insight into my next autocross car. For the last 4 years, I've been racing my 997 for autocross. It wasn't all that competitive in the class it was in (it goes up against the 997 GT3 and Corvette Z06). With some class changes this year, it looks like the 986 boxster S would certainly be a better choice. And it'd be cheaper to run as well. Sweet. So, I'm in the market for a Boxster S at the moment.

I originally thought I'd grab an 03/04 Boxster S. Reportedly the variocam gives a few more torque over the 00-02 Boxster (225 ft-lb increased to 229 ft-lb.). That's at least what I could find according to Porsche literature, but I found a number of other reports suggesting the torque is 228-229 ft-lbs regardless of the years. Checking out posted 0-60 times do not seem to indicate the 03/04 cars are faster than the earlier models. Yea, I do realize that the 0-60 times aren't great indicators, but I was hoping that all things being equal, a car with higher torque would have faster 0-60 times. So far, those times don't actually show one year 986S is quicker than another.

The real issue for me is that there aren't a whole lot of the 03/04 Boxster S available near me. I can find a few 00-02 available, but the nearest 03/04 is something like 500 miles away. Do the 03/04 models offer advantages over the older models? Do they actually have more torque or something that would be useful?

[BYprodriver]

Originally Posted by Rotmilky

I'm hoping you guys can provide some useful insight into my next autocross car. For the last 4 years, I've been racing my 997 for autocross. It wasn't all that competitive in the class it was in (it goes up against the 997 GT3 and Corvette Z06). With some class changes this year, it looks like the 986 boxster S would certainly be a better choice. And it'd be cheaper to run as well. Sweet. So, I'm in the market for a Boxster S at the moment.

I originally thought I'd grab an 03/04 Boxster S. Reportedly the variocam gives a few more torque over the 00-02 Boxster (225 ft-lb increased to 229 ft-lb.). That's at least what I could find according to Porsche literature, but I found a number of other reports suggesting the torque is 228-229 ft-lbs regardless of the years. Checking out posted 0-60 times do not seem to indicate the 03/04 cars are faster than the earlier models. Yea, I do realize that the 0-60 times aren't great indicators, but I was hoping that all things being equal, a car with higher torque would have faster 0-60 times. So far, those times don't actually show one year 986S is quicker than another.

The real issue for me is that there aren't a whole lot of the 03/04 Boxster S available near me. I can find a few 00-02 available, but the nearest 03/04 is something like 500 miles away. Do the 03/04 models offer advantages over the older models? Do they actually have more torque or something that would be useful?

I would think it would be easier to find a early model that is lighter to overcome any torque advantage from a 03-04. Now that i have stated that it's hard to determine weight due to options but generally the earlier cars are lighter.

[jakeru]

I can't speak for the year difference, but if this is for SCCA street/stock class, make sure you get the M030 sport suspension option. Also, refreshing the shocks with good quality, new ones and also use fresh bump stops as they are an essential and active component of the suspension, which work in parallel with the spring.

Someone was selling a set of JRZ double adjustables... those would be sweet for SCCA stock with the M030 springs. The coilover springs wouldn't be stock/street class legal, and probably also couldn't use the aftermarket upper mounts, but those are some high-end shocks:
http://986forum.com/forums/boxster-parts-sale-wanted/64588-jrz-doubles-fs.html

What are these recent rule changes you speak of - Got a link? Good luck, and have fun!

[itsnotanova]

I'm no Jake Raby, but I don't think the three chain motors are not as good as the 5 chain. I believe this simply by how many people with 2003+ boxsters are looking for motors and how hard it is to come across them. This is my opinion, but the ratio of amount of vehicles sold vs people having to replace a blown motor seems higher with the 2003/04 crowd.

[paulofto]

Originally Posted by itsnotanova

I'm no Jake Raby, but I don't think the three chain motors are not as good as the 5 chain. I believe this simply by how many people with 2003+ boxsters are looking for motors and how hard it is to come across them. This is my opinion, but the ratio of amount of vehicles sold vs people having to replace a blown motor seems higher with the 2003/04 crowd.

It may be a simple matter of numbers. There were 132,217 Boxsters made between 1997 and 2002. For 2003 & 2004 there were only 32,646 (17,325 Base, 13,368 S & 1,953 SE550). It seems to me there are a lot fewer '03-'04 engines to begin with.

[Rotmilky]

Originally Posted by jakeru

...get the M030 sport suspension option...

What are these recent rule changes you speak of - Got a link? Good luck, and have fun!

Yea, putting the M030 is one of the first things I plan to do. Thanks for the link to the shocks.

As to the recent changes I mentioned, it's a series of both good and bad (for me) that's pushing the move to Boxster. In good classing news for many Boxster S owners, the 2000-2004 S moved from BS to CS. That puts it in a class against the Suby BRZ/Toyota equivalent whose name I can't recall at the moment, and the new gen Miata. I *think* the BS can take the Suby. Maybe I'm overly optimistic, but it's got a chance. Against the Miata, I think it'll be course dependent. The Miata has pretty short 1st and 2nd. So if the course is fast, the BS stands a good chance of taking the Miata just because the gearing is better. On a slower, tighter course, I think the Miata is pretty unbeatable. But, for the first time in a long while, I do think the boxster S is at least classed such that it *could* win.

In other good news for 987 owners, they're dropping from SS to AS. So, that's good. But some pretty good 'vettes (I think stock C7s) are also making the move, so overall it's a wash.

In bad news for 997 owners (me), they're still stuck in SS going up against the 997 GT3 and C7 Z06s. Heck, I had my hands full going up against 987S.

In unfortunate news, the 2.7L base boxster was proposed to be moved to ES. Unfortunately, there seems to have been a rather strong backlash against that and the proposed move was dropped. I wish they would have done that...although I'm biased. Maybe it'll happen in a few years.

[JayG]

My understanding is the 3 chain motor is better than the 5 chain.
I could be wrong.

[jakeru]

Originally Posted by Rotmilky

Yea, putting the M030 is one of the first things I plan to do. Thanks for the link to the shocks.

As to the recent changes I mentioned, it's a series of both good and bad (for me) that's pushing the move to Boxster. In good classing news for many Boxster S owners, the 2000-2004 S moved from BS to CS. That puts it in a class against the Suby BRZ/Toyota equivalent whose name I can't recall at the moment, and the new gen Miata. I *think* the BS can take the Suby. Maybe I'm overly optimistic, but it's got a chance. Against the Miata, I think it'll be course dependent. The Miata has pretty short 1st and 2nd. So if the course is fast, the BS stands a good chance of taking the Miata just because the gearing is better. On a slower, tighter course, I think the Miata is pretty unbeatable. But, for the first time in a long while, I do think the boxster S is at least classed such that it *could* win.

In other good news for 987 owners, they're dropping from SS to AS. So, that's good. But some pretty good 'vettes (I think stock C7s) are also making the move, so overall it's a wash.

In bad news for 997 owners (me), they're still stuck in SS going up against the 997 GT3 and C7 Z06s. Heck, I had my hands full going up against 987S.

In unfortunate news, the 2.7L base boxster was proposed to be moved to ES. Unfortunately, there seems to have been a rather strong backlash against that and the proposed move was dropped. I wish they would have done that...although I'm biased. Maybe it'll happen in a few years.

Based on your post, I just reviewed the latest, 2017 car classification listings. It appears the 50th anniversary edition "S" is included as a C-stock/C-street 986 Boxster. I'd say if you were going '03-'04, and taking potentially an extra weight hit from added stuff like glass rear windows, the 50th anniversary edition with the extra engine power (supposedly ecu change, induction changes) would be the car to have as far as 986 Boxster's go. Although maybe an earlier, lighter "S" could be competitive, if found you could find one optioned lightly enough to make up for added weight of the later model cars. 50th anniversary editions are a lot more rare and seem to sell at significantly higher price than other 986's. Though. Variations in gearing ratios across the models years may also make some better/worse, but I don't know off to which would be best gearing ratios for autocross.

That's very encouraging that at least there was a discussion about the 2.7 base potentially being recatgorized. I hear bad things about the traction control feature you can't get away from or even turn off, on all the 986 "s" models. The 2.7 base wouldn't have this problem. I'd invest in some really good, lightweight wheels, lightest you can find, in widest legal rim configuration and with whatever the fastest, class-legal tire is nowadays.

[itsnotanova]

Originally Posted by paulofto

It may be a simple matter of numbers. There were 132,217 Boxsters made between 1997 and 2002. For 2003 & 2004 there were only 32,646 (17,325 Base, 13,368 S & 1,953 SE550). It seems to me there are a lot fewer '03-'04 engines to begin with.

Yes there are less 3 chain motors to begin with. This is my opinion from being a Boxster dismantler, but 35-45% of calls I get for a motor are people with the 03/04 motors. This does not include people who race these things as they blow up everything. I won't go on record as saying the 03/04 are bad yet but I have my suspicion.

[BYprodriver]

Originally Posted by itsnotanova

Yes there are less 3 chain motors to begin with. This is my opinion from being a Boxster dismantler, but 35-45% of calls I get for a motor are people with the 03/04 motors. This does not include people who race these things as they blow up everything. I won't go on record as saying the 03/04 are bad yet but I have my suspicion.

Well they all have the worst IMSB & the longer cam chains can cause problems as parts wear.

[JayG]

Please stop calling it a BS
Boxster S
986 S
S
Box S

Just not BS

[jsceash]

Originally Posted by JayG

My understanding is the 3 chain motor is better than the 5 chain.
I could be wrong.

Agreed fewer points to stretch. Plus the cam timing has better adjustment both mechanically and through the ECU.