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2.7L vs. 2.5L?
I just wanted to get everybodies opinion on each powetrain. which is better the 2.7L or the 2.5L? When I say better, I mean which is more responsive and which is more reliable? I know that I maybe asking quite loaded questions but I am considering 98 boxster and a 00 boxster right now and your insight will definately help.
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Go for the 00'. The power difference is noticable,and it is more reliable. When Porsche put out the 2.7L it seems like the RMS issue got better. You never know though,its going to have alot to do with how the previous owner treated her.
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3.2 worth the stretch. Better on resale too.
This market is good for Boxster buyers now. Not as good for sellers as it used to be. Probably the same sitch for Cayenne owners soon too. |
I agree with Perfectlap... don't debate 2.5 or a 2.7. And don't debate a 2.7 or a 3.2...
From a 2.5 Boxster owner's side of the conversation (which would be me), I'd tell you to save more money and get an S, ignoring all the non-S models you come across. The power difference is huge and you'll never regret buying an S, but you may well regret buying a 2.5 or a 2.7 when SUV's overtake you and in an S you would have blown them away. |
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I am more then happy with my 2.5... Fast enought for me.. The fun isn't in straight line speed but the corners, oh those corners..
Mike |
I got my 2.5 up to 143 mph the other day. I was trying to catch my wife in her minivan.
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i have a 2.5 and i'm perfectly happy. i'm not an enthusiast as far as tracking my car but for everyday spirited driving and keeping me out of speeding tickets it fits me fine. my 2.5 has been very reliable, with the exception of an oil separator and a window regulator. An S would be nice, but for that kind of money i'd buy a 911 for alittle more. there's always something bigger and better but you just have to realize what kind of driver you are and find that niche. Buy a loaded one, carbon fiber, sport seats, hardtop, exhaust/headers, wheels, body upgrades so you won't have to spend that extra dough and do it yourself would be my advice.
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Hi,
Don't listen to anyone else. Make an honest assessment of who you are, how you drive and what you want the car for. Then, drive them both and buy the one which best suits your needs. The 2.5 suits me fine because I have other toys with which to set my hair on fire. Also, I'd much rather have a perfect 2.5 (which I do) than some raggedy-*ss 3.2 S. Resale value means nothing, because you cannot gauge tomorrow's market today, even using today's as a comparison. Besides, NEVER buy a Luxury item because of how you think you'll come out on the back end, buy it because you want it... Happy Motoring!... Jim'99 |
Besides, NEVER buy a Luxury item because of how you think you'll come out on the back end, buy it because you want it...
Truer words have never been spoken!! ;) |
I have driven the 2.7L and can not tell it from my 2.5L. The power difference is negligable. I drove them almost back to back and really couldn't tell any difference at all.
Anybody who says there is a huge difference should try driving a car that is acctually fast (and not a boxster S thats not fast either) and see what a real difference is. Buy what is a good deal and what suits your needs, dont discount a 98 in Mint condition because you can get a mediocre 00 with a 2.7L in it for the same money. |
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I too have the oil sep and Window reg go out on me! I fixed them myself and saved about $1k? maybe $800. Plus, I figure, if you're gonna be considered to have a "poormans Porsche" then why not have the lowest model of them all! LOL.. jk.. But seriously, it depends on what YOU want. I chose the 2.5L because it was clean and just like HD said, instead of the S, I'd rather save up a bit more and get a used 911. |
As a dealer, I would not buy a 2.5L Boxster. The engine is the oldest, least reliable, and weakest engine the Box has had. Many horror stories abound about the engine and some of them are quite true.
You may find a nice one, you might not. The old advice still goes, Buy the nicest, fastest Box you can afford. IMHO. |
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Are you seaious??? You got facts to back that up? Thats the funniest thing I ever heard. Sorry to break it to you but the problem is still there even in the 987/997 models. No matter what water cooled flat-6 Porsche engine you have, you have the same chance of getting an RMS failure as any. The only 911/boxster I've ever heard of that has a less of a chance of getting a RMS failure is a tip because of the tip transmission. |
also look up the Consumer Reports evals on Boxsters through the years. Excellence magazine has a good market review for 986's noting the differences between years (even they all look the same from the outside).
I think the 2000-2002 reported the least amount of engine/drivetrain issues from 1997-2004. As for power I've said it before, a car at this curb weight should have at least 240 HP. The car will be fine with less but it without question seems to "come alive" in the turns with the extra power. And of course for freeway merging and overtaking slower cars its very very handy. This car could easily handle another 100 HP with the steering and balance on hand. As for resale there is no way to predict what the market will do but its a safe bet you'll get more money for the S. With the internet producing smarter and smarter buyers (like you) doing their research they'll be more informed before buying and many will know that power upgrades are very very expensive on this car. Best to get it with the most power available for each model year from the factory. It's a sports car afterall and power is not the be all and end all but its indeed relevant. So not buying a 3.2 could cost you money. It's a strong possibility. |
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Hi, On point #1, where are you getting you data? There is no data which suggests this. Boxster Production peaked in these years, so there may be some merit as the workers were more in the groove . Another factor is that the older cars are just that - older. Issues quite naturally do increase as a Car ages. Point #2, that's debatable and a matter of taste. Porsche designed the Boxster to use the 201bhp in the original 2.5l. They may have purposely emasculated it in relation to the 911, but it's still got a lot (some may say adequate) pep to it. Point #3, just silly, the 2.5 has no trouble whatever either merging into traffic, or passing other traffic. It has a greater power/weight ratio than the 550 Spyder afterall, and no one ever accused that car of being a dog. Point #4, true, the market is not predictable, and an S may sell for more than a base in a couple years, but you are forgetting that it also takes more to get into an S in the first place, so it's likely to be same-same in the end. I have not seen anything which suggests that the S depreciates at a lesser rate than the base. Point #5, ???? I don't get the reasonong here at all. Unless you are going to make the car perfect and throw a blanket over it for 50 years, it's most likely that you will sell the car for less than you paid, whether it's a Base or an S. If one were to invest the difference in price of the S over the base for the number of years you owned the car, you would make some money or limit your cost of ownership, otherwise, the Car is going to cost you - the cost of having it and using it for the years owned be it an S or Base model. But, the Brake Pads, clutch and insurance will all be higher with the S, so this car could actually cost you more money than the Base. Happy Motoring!... Jim'99 |
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2-I never said the 2.5 doesn't have pep. But if you have driven both you see that though the cars may be similar in weight the seat of the pants feel very different coming out of corners and coming off braking with the substantial increase in torque from the 3.2. (why would anyone pass this up if its in their budget??) The more power you add to the Boxster the more the excellent handling/balance is magnified well except for that moment of polar inertia when the car breaks away like no other and you're just a passenger. But no car is perfect. 3-Again no one ever said you can't adequately merge on traffic and overtkae slower cars in a 2.5 BUT if you have driven a 3.2 you will see how much easier of an effort it is, particularly higher up on the power band. 4-The Boxster market varies greatly. You might be able to get a 3.2 in one part of the country for the same amount of money that it would cost you for 2.7 (with both having the same mileage,condition etc.) in another area. If you are willing to buy with just an independent inspection report sight unseen you could get into an S for the same amount of money as a 2.7. Its not always signficantly more or more at all. Like I said this a very good time to be 986 buyer, lots of fluctuation in prices and choices by region. 5-I'ts not a given that the S depreciates at a lower rate but the rules of supply and demmand are often a factor. There are 150 Boxsters for sale on Ebay right now and only 50 of them are S models. Allot of people are locating (not always buying) through online trading sites like Ebay. You very well could end up selling to this pool or making your Boxster known to this segment of buyers who rely on the internet only. If the trend in this buying pool shifts towards more buyers wanting 3.2's and willing to pay more for an S model then obviously there will be fewer S models to choose from (and even fewer well preserved ones) and the 2.7's(in similar mileage,condition etc.) WILL have to be lowered in price to entice a potential 2nd hand buyer away from a 3.2. This lowering could be at a increasingly faster rate given the ever growing numbers of Boxsters coming off leases every day. I did say it could not it will cost you money. Its hard to show this statiscally because no one really tracks resale values this closely. It's no different than with the Carreras. Relative to overall production of the 996, the C4S was small in production and the market is very good for that car thus its still quiet expensive to get into one. Supply and demmand. The pool of buyers for Boxsters is going to grow 10 fold as people look to get a piece of the Porsche brand for little money and a very good track record of reliability. This hasn't really happened much in the past with this brand. There's no way to say now whether the demmand for S models will be greater but the fact that there are fewer to choose from makes it a strong possibility that like the C4S the BoxsterS will be more desireable in the 2nd hand market and a lower depreciation rate could be the result. It's as likely as it is unlikely. If I'm a buyer and can get into the rarer model for not much more money its a no brainer. |
As a dealer, I would only be interested in later years S models.
It is what sells! Just a thought! |
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See above... Happy Motoring!... Jim'99 |
I would have to agree that the more recent 'S' models will hold their value better. Keep in mind there seems to be a HP escalation in the auto industry the last couple of years and many of the standard economy sedans are getting larger engines. I have to think that when someone is shopping for a 'sports car' they are not going to want to buy one with less power than a Honda Accord. That has to hurt some of the older non 'S' boxsters.
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You may be correct for a certain segment of the Market. But, the essence of a True Sports Car is that they do tend to be underpowered. Traditionally, because of their nimbleness, they usually felt faster than they actually were. That fact is somewhat skewed in the US Market for a couple of reasons. First, roads in Europe (the birthplace of the Sports Car) tend to be very twisty due to natural obstacles - Hills, Mountains, Rivers and Streams as well as man-made ones - farms, towns and villages which existed long before the motorcar - too much power here can be a hindrance. Whereas in America, roads tend to be straighter with gentle curves as most towns were designed to accomodate the motorcar, so nimbleness was suplanted by horsepower. Also, Americans traditionally had to choose between American Cars with their massive engines and power and the underpowered Euro Cars. Detroit used this power advantage with great success in their Marketing campaigns of the past 50 years and we've all become swayed by it to one degree or another. But more, or bigger, is not always better. I reject the notion that the S is rarer. Porsche produces it in batches that their research indicates is in demand. If people wanted more, Porsche would grind them out like link-sausages. With today's manufacturing, there's nothing to prevent them doing so. Meeting Market demand is the name of the game. People have to realize that the Porsche of today is not the Porsche of yesteryear with limited production capacity and allowing quality to limit quantity - they're a Big Boy now ruled as much by their closing share price as by any vision to be the ultimate in performance. But, there is a small segment which takes a more encompassing look at performance and doesn't zero-in on power alone. This helps to explain the Miata's popularity, though admittedly price point and other factors were also important. I drive a 2.5, I could have bought anything I wanted, including a 911TT. I chose the 2.5 because to me, it is more representative of the traditional Sports Car. I feel the power of the S is unecessary, especially when one considers that it too cannot be termed a Giant Killer, it's still bringing up the rear in the HP wars - Porsche purposely saw to that. There is a polarization between the S and Base model owners which is just stupid. Most people would be thrilled to own either one - we are the fortunate few. If I were swayed by what others thought, I might be inclined to want the power of the S, but I don't. Nor do I feel my Boxster is inferior to the S in any way, in fact, quite the oppsite, get in the twistys and the HP is negated to a great degree. I feel it's truer to the Sports Car philosophy, and it's the original Boxster model. I wouldn't trade my 2.5 for an S, even straight-up - I have the car I want. In fact, I will never trade-up my Boxster, I'll never own another one. If I get rid of this one, I'll buy something else - so many cars - so little time. I have owned 39 cars in my lifetime and never once bought a repeat. In contrast, my Brother has owned a VW Jetta since 1985 (4 of them) and just traded his '02 in on a new '06 - I can't even imagine. You S owners need to appreciate that not everyone feels as you do. Nor did we settle for the Base because the S was out of reach, anyone who did made a mistake. Base or S, they both provide the Boxster experience... Happy Motoring!... Jim'99 |
"Again, a lot of generality. Who says the market is growing? There's lots of competition out there - M Roadster, Z4, S2000, Sky, 350Z Convt., MX-5, Audi TT, etc. On the contrary, I believe this market is so oversaturated that it isn't expanding at all and prices are going to get softer, not firmer"
HA! those cars are not Porsches! :p seriously Most people buying the Boxster aren't familiar with the proximity in performance offered by (SOME) of the cars you listed. Most people looking at Boxsters (not the standar enthusiast type) are buying on brand name which puts Porsche in its unique position in terms of used value. On paper the Boxster should not be as expensive as it is either new or used. Yet people still pony up $30K for a used car that has only 250HP, while some offer that performance NEW. Why? because Porsche exists in its won little world. One that the dudes in Germany take full advantage of. p.s. I think you inferred that I was inferring that the 2.5 was inadequate in power. Its obviously not because I drove a 1.8 4 cylinder Miata that merged and overtook cars just muy bueno. 2.5 is more than enough for every day needs. |
You guys have this out of your system?
Seriously, who is willingly going to buy a Porshe with 201HP and a reputation for grenading at times? :dance: |
wow! I am noticing a difference between Honda S2000 owners and Boxster owners...The latter owners are far more knowledgable about the cars they drive!
I also didnt anticipate that this would become a heated debate! Right now, I just want something which I can enjoy as my daily driver. I live in a prarie canadian city so I do not need gross amounts of power but some would be nice as this car would also be used for autox and possibly some hot laps. |
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The former is true of the pre-'00 cars, but the latter remains true to this day, and from everything I read, not to any lesser degree either... Happy Motoring!... Jim'99 |
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Me... and I can even spell Porsche correctly. |
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OK now? :troll: |
Oh great! The FNG pissed off the moderator!
I hope I didn't seriously anger you...just bustin' balls. I'm a product of my North Philadelphia upbringing. I can't help myself. :D Don't worry, grammar really isn't one of my strong points. You'll certainly have ample opportunity to exact your revenge upon my sorry ass! :matchup: |
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I went to school in Philly, twice. I went undergrad to Philly Textile and then on to Wharton/Penn for graduate school. I miss Philly. Haven't been back for a while. Be well! :) |
I love my '98....It's not the fastest car around, but I love it for the driving experience. The engine was replaced in 2002 before I bought it, and since I bought it 14 months ago, I have had no engine problems. The cam cover seals were replaced, yes, but the car was not losing oil, and I knew my warranty would cover it. The car handles great with the M030 suspension, and everywhere I go I get looks and compliments. Even from people driving cars which are more expensive and have more HP. Today some guy in an Audi TT wanted to show me his "stuff" so he pulls out fast past me and gets in front of me in the turning lane to exit off the highway...He was a good 100 feet in front of me as he entered the exit ....Then the road started to twist abruptly, and he had to slow down dramatically.....3/4 of the way thru the turn I was on him already and I had to slow down because he couldn't take the curve very quickly.....My car was hardly straining tho ;)
Did I say I love this car? :D |
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Textile, great school. Wharton...now I AM impressed. You know, Philly gets in your blood and you can never truly get it out of your system. I live in a great town, with a house looking out over the Chesapeake Bay, but if the opportunity presented itself I would move back to the City of Brotherly Love first thing in the morning. My family is still up there, so I make the trip often. If you decide to visit sometime, let me know. We can grab a cheesesteak wit and run the Art Museum steps, though not necessarily in that order. |
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I'm originally from Philly too. My family lived in Drexel Hill, near Villanova. I moved away while very young, but spent most of my summers there and the obligatory month at the Shooorrr. I miss it too... Happy Motoring!... Jim'99 |
I agree with MNBoxster about the standard, the older the car, the more problems you will see. If I had to do it all over again, I'd buy the standard. If I wanted more overtaking power I'd get an STI. I just wanted a fun car to haul around in on weekends with the top down. But I noticed that you said you would AutoX your box so the S may be for you (IMO, a good driver in a standard could whip a sorry driver in an S, depends on the driver at AutoX). If you decide to get a box, almost every problem that has occurred in the car has a fix for it on the internet. and ppl on these forums are very knowledgable and can point to in the right direction for a DIY. Boxsters are dependable and will last but ALL boxsters have problems, it's just a matter of how much of a DIYer you are to fix it. The standard will give you just as many smiles as an S would.
porsche always makes something alittle better to charge more, just depends on how much more you want to spend, all are good. besides who buys a porsche to resale it? I bought mine to drive it til it dies. :cheers: |
O.K., I know I'm getting WAY off topic here, but you all read the Sharks in the Mountains (we gotta do one of these) thread, so here's the plan:
We converge on Philadelphia for a Boxster get together. We can hook up at the Mummer's Museum (Do not make fun of the Mummers. You'll get beat up). I'll take you deep into the old neighborhood for a real Philly Cheesesteak. Not one of those tourist trap jobs, but a true "I can't hold onto this sucker" grease runnin' down your forearm Cheesesteak (Do not order lettuce tomato and mayonaise. You'll get beat up). We can catch an afternoon Phillies game at the new stadium (Do not wear another team's jersey. You'll get beat up). Then we can squirt across the bridge and downashore. I'm certain the Jersey Troopers would be happy to settle the whole 2.5, 2.7, 3.2 argument for us. (The guys with the fastest cars will get beat up). ;) Then, we can head to Cozy Morley's in Wildwood for a night of beer and oldies, watch the dolphins jumping in the Atlantic at daybreak and then head back to our respective parts of the globe. On second thought, let's not. We'll get beat up. |
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When I was at Textile, we used to walk down to Dalsandros for the best Cheesesteak in the world, or at least it seemed it
Boy, I could go for one of those right now! :cheers: |
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I bet he still has that seat! |
Small world man! Some of my classmates and I made the front page of the Inquirer and the Evening Bulletin with our plans to try to save Connie Mack from being torn down. It didn't work. I saw my first major league game there with my Grandfather. I still have one of those little bats they used to give out on Bat Day. What were they thinking?!?! A stadium full of Philadelphians, a losing team, unlimited beer, and they hand everybody a bat?!?!? Ah, the good old days.
The game you saw never concluded, as I remember, because the stadium was being systematically disassembled by the rioting fans. :eek: |
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