Porsche NA Response to Motor Swap Date Request

[imon_2nd]

The Boxster I purchased a month ago has a warranty-replacement engine. (I know this from the engine serial number.) I'd like to know when the motor was replaced so I can anticipate service intervals. The dealership that sold the car originally erased their files older than 10 years, so they are of no help. The local dealer in Roseville was kind enough to print out the warranty history of the car, but it doesn't show the swap.

I wrote an email to Porsche NA with proof of ownership attached requesting the swap date. Here's the reply I got and my response to it.

""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""

Dear Mr. -----,

Thank you for reaching out to us. We are excited to hear you are please with your new Boxster S.

Regretfully, service history is considered proprietary information, and we would not be able to advise you the date of any repair.

I am truly sorry for the inconvenience. If you have additional questions or concerns, please call us at 1-800-PORSCHE. We are available Monday through Friday 8AM to 9PM EST.

Kind Regards,
Jessica Riley
Porsche Specialist, Porsche Contact Center
Porsche Cars North America, Inc.
One Porsche Drive
Atlanta, GA 30354

Phone: 1-800 PORSCHE (1-800-767-7243)
Fax: 1-866-334-5280
Email: customer.commitment@porsche.us
"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""

Jessica;

I fail to see what could possibly be proprietary about the engine swap date, especially considering that ongoing maintenance needs this one piece of information.

Given the huge financial losses and embarrassment Porsche suffered for the IMS bearing defect in many of these motors, I expected the company would want the owners of cars with warranty-replaced motors to be able to anticipate service intervals as if the engine had not been replaced at some unknown point in time.

Please pass this email and my previous one along to senior management as well as your legal department for evaluation of potential risk exposure to the company.

Sincerely,

David

[Seadweller]

When I asked them about the number of 986's imported to the US in my particular year/color, they told me those records are not kept. Odd.

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by imon_2nd

The Boxster I purchased a month ago has a warranty-replacement engine. (I know this from the engine serial number.) I'd like to know when the motor was replaced so I can anticipate service intervals. The dealership that sold the car originally erased their files older than 10 years, so they are of no help. The local dealer in Roseville was kind enough to print out the warranty history of the car, but it doesn't show the swap.

I wrote an email to Porsche NA with proof of ownership attached requesting the swap date. Here's the reply I got and my response to it.

""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""

Dear Mr. -----,

Thank you for reaching out to us. We are excited to hear you are please with your new Boxster S.

Regretfully, service history is considered proprietary information, and we would not be able to advise you the date of any repair.

I am truly sorry for the inconvenience. If you have additional questions or concerns, please call us at 1-800-PORSCHE. We are available Monday through Friday 8AM to 9PM EST.

Kind Regards,
Jessica Riley
Porsche Specialist, Porsche Contact Center
Porsche Cars North America, Inc.
One Porsche Drive
Atlanta, GA 30354

Phone: 1-800 PORSCHE (1-800-767-7243)
Fax: 1-866-334-5280
Email: customer.commitment@porsche.us
"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""

Jessica;

I fail to see what could possibly be proprietary about the engine swap date, especially considering that ongoing maintenance needs this one piece of information.

Given the huge financial losses and embarrassment Porsche suffered for the IMS bearing defect in many of these motors, I expected the company would want the owners of cars with warranty-replaced motors to be able to anticipate service intervals as if the engine had not been replaced at some unknown point in time.

Please pass this email and my previous one along to senior management as well as your legal department for evaluation of potential risk exposure to the company.

Sincerely,

David

Some years ago, the federal court ruled that all service record data, including dates of service, are the sole property of the owner of record at that time, and therefore cannot be shared with any third party without prior written permission of that owner of record, which is why we suggest buyers try and get them from the previous owner, if they can be found (again, Porsche will not reveal that information either for the same reason). The service records in my shop are covered by the same ruling, which is why we do not share them either. Porsche would see the legal risk of telling you what you want to know as being substantially higher than your implied threat.

That said, you can get the date of the engine build by decoding the engine number, which would give you some idea of its age. What "service intervals" are you trying to determine? If you just go by the car's odometer, you won't go wrong, you just may be a bit early, which really is better than using the intervals Porsche recommends anyway, as their recommendations are pretty much too long to begin with.

[imon_2nd]

Hello, JFP.

I've read about that Federal case. Since I'm the 3rd owner and the only records I have are from the 2nd owner, I have no way of contacting the 1st owner.

The 1st owner's privacy and any other rights would not be endangered if Porsche provided only the engine replacement date. Furthermore, there is no longer any contractual obligation between Porsche and the 1st owner or between myself and the 1st owner.

I agree with you that I can and will service the car per odometer mileage, warning lights and my own senses. Nonetheless, I'd feel better knowing whether I have 50,000 miles on the replacement motor or 90,000. Either is possible given that the odometer is close to 100,000 miles.

Cheers,

Dave

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by imon_2nd

Hello, JFP.

I've read about that Federal case. Since I'm the 3rd owner and the only records I have are from the 2nd owner, I have no way of contacting the 1st owner.

The 1st owner's privacy and any other rights would not be endangered if Porsche provided only the engine replacement date. Furthermore, there is no longer any contractual obligation between Porsche and the 1st owner or between myself and the 1st owner.

I agree with you that I can and will service the car per odometer mileage, warning lights and my own senses. Nonetheless, I'd feel better knowing whether I have 50,000 miles on the replacement motor or 90,000. Either is possible given that the odometer is close to 100,000 miles.

Cheers,

Dave

It is not a contractual obligation; under the federal ruling it survives contracts, Porsche simply does not own the information, the previous owner owns it, and they cannot release it without his or her written permission. This unfortunately is both black letter law, and a pain in the butt for those of us that hold the actual service records, but it is the way it is. This law cost anyone servicing cars real money everyday, because we are required to show we exercise due diligence in protecting this data (computers or files stored in secure locked rooms away from areas if public access. We now actually store it off site, specially to demonstrate we are acting in good faith; and it cost me money every single day).

[Tcar]

Originally Posted by imon_2nd

The Boxster I purchased a month ago has a warranty-replacement engine. (I know this from the engine serial number.) I'd like to know when the motor was replaced so I can anticipate service intervals. The dealership that sold the car originally erased their files older than 10 years, so they are of no help. The local dealer in Roseville was kind enough to print out the warranty history of the car, but it doesn't show the swap.

I wrote an email to Porsche NA with proof of ownership attached requesting the swap date. Here's the reply I got and my response to it.....

David

I am the third owner of my '02 S.

I found some dealer service items on CarFax (water pump replacement, etc.) that even the second owner did not know about.

I called the dealer with the direct question and they verified that it was done.

You might try CarFax... you may get lucky, but it sounds as though the dealer won't verify in your case.

[steved0x]

You can get some carfax service records for free by doing a "My Car Fax" using your vin number. I found out about an engine swap on a vehicle I bought that way.

[imon_2nd]

Understood, JFP.

I provided Porsche with the engine serial number. If Porsche wanted to be helpful, they could tell me the date the engine was manufactured. That information belongs to Porsche. (I know, still doesn't tell me how long the motor sat on a shelf before it was installed.)

All I can tell from the number is that it's a replacement engine, 7th version of the M96, made in 2004, and is the 65,245th unit produced. From inspection, I can tell it has the "captive" IMS bearing, which requires splitting the cases to replace.

If you can guesstimate the date of manufacture, please advise.

Cheers,

Dave

[JFP in PA]

Let me have the full engine number, but if was built in 2004, it should have the serviceable IMS bearing (2005 was the transitional year, I have never seen an 2004 engine with the oversized bearing).

[imon_2nd]

Engine: M96/24AT67465245

The picture showing the mounting of the IMS bearing is below. The shop that replaced the clutch and RMS took the photo for me because I had a hard time believing it, too.

[lkchris]

So, bottom line is you have no valid beef with Porsche. In addition, the connection as regards service intervals is really weak.

Don't confuse recall information with warranty information--recalls are federally required and relate only to safety or emissions and so is the associated record keeping required. Otoh if a dealer replaced a piece of trim under warranty (or a motor) there's no requirement the manufacturer provide you the replacement date ... or the production date of the replacement part.

[BrokenLinkage]

So this federal car health privacy law does not apply to Carfax, just everybody else?

[thstone]

I have bought several Porsche's with no service history. You simply assume that nothing has been done and start with a full and complete major service as your starting point and then track mileage from there. Easy, breezy.

[imon_2nd]

Originally Posted by thstone

I have bought several Porsche's with no service history. You simply assume that nothing has been done and start with a full and complete major service as your starting point and then track mileage from there. Easy, breezy.

Yes, did that, even though I have the past 8 years of service history. I would still like to know if I'm driving a car with 50K miles on the motor or 90K miles. It seems I may never know.

[Smallblock454]

Hello,

if the engine change was done by an official Porsche dealer, they will never adjust the odo to the new engine. They always keep the odo to the miles of the car itself.

Regards, Markus

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by imon_2nd

Engine: M96/24AT67465245

The picture showing the mounting of the IMS bearing is below. The shop that replaced the clutch and RMS took the photo for me because I had a hard time believing it, too.

From the number, the engine is a 3.2L rebuilt in 2004, and you have the oversized non serviceable IMS bearing, which you can tell alone from the 22MM center bolt in the photo. Yours is the first one I have ever seen in that early an engine, and yet another example of why you cannot necessarily trust normal records and guidelines, but have to take the car apart and look once your find the "AT" (Austausch or "exchange" in German) marking in the engine number sequence.

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by BrokenLinkage

So this federal car health privacy law does not apply to Carfax, just everybody else?

No, Carfax "sanitizes" the records to remove certain things so the records comply. Yet another reason not to trust what they sell.

[husker boxster]

If you're trying to figure out the engine mileage for maintenance purposes, that's a waste of time. Since you're not allowed to view the actual maintenance, you'd have to assume the previous owners did scheduled maintenance and that's a pretty shaky assumption. As thstone points out, assume none of it has been done and start changing everything in some sort of order of importance and budget. With 50 or 90K on the engine, most wear items will probably be on their 1st or 2nd time needing replacement anyway.

If you're trying to find the mileage on the engine for conversation purposes, run a Carfax. Best case scenario it displays the date / mileage of the engine change. If not, it gives an ave mi / yr / owner. Since your replacement engine was built in 2004, estimate that it was put in your car in 2004 or 2005. Use the miles / yr and est the miles for those 2 yrs. That should put you in the ballpark.