Buyer question
 

Hi, I am brand new to this forum and to the Boxster family.

My wife had a slight windfall and offered to buy me an inexpensive car to tinker with. Not a daily driver, but one I could have fun with. I am very mechanical and have worked on several lines of cars, just never a Porsche.

My budget (really set by me) was pretty low at $5000. So I started searching the ads. I found pretty beat up 97s for around 3k, but needed a lot of mechanical and cosmetic work. But I ran across the one below. I can make the deal for around $4k. The only problem. It won't start. 97000 miles, looks like nice condition, with a hard top. Third owner. Throwing a CEL.

I would like to get an OBDII scanner on it to find out the reason for the CEL, but I'm in Tucson, and I just don't know where to borrow or rent or even buy a scanner that can read Porsche codes. He has other people who want to see it. I could take a chance that it is something like a Camshaft Position Sensor, or it could I guess be a lot worse.

Give me your opinion. I know one that is running is far preferable, but also far more expensive. Thanks for your help! Tom

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Assume that the engine is toast.

Assume that everything the seller says is a lie unless it is backed up by paperwork.

Assuming its a simple and easy fix is a fools errand - you don't think that the owner or the owners brother or the owners mechanic didn't check it out? Of course they did. But selling a car with an "unknown" engine problem sounds better than selling a car with a known blown engine. In this equation, the seller is shifting all risk to the buyer. How lucky do you feel?

Also, beware all of the other things that can/will be wrong that you can't check because the engine doesn't run; power steering, air conditioning, electrical, transmission, cooling system, drive shafts, etc, etc, etc. I bought a Boxster with a blown engine for $3K that the seller swore had nothing else wrong with it. It cost me an additional $1,500 to fix all of the other things wrong beside the engine. Be sure to plan for the unexpected into your budget.

Now, you can think about how to proceed.

A salvage engine will run $2000-$5000 depending on miles and how good you are at finding a deal. You should be able to do the engine swap yourself.

Good luck!

You're not encouraging me much. The car is in Sierra Vista, AZ - far from any Porsche service. I do agree that sellers information is unreliable. Sounds to me like I should just pay a little more for a running car.

Sorry, I don't mean to be discouraging - but I do mean to be realistic. The reality is that there is a lot of risk in buying a non-running Porsche.

It all comes down to how comfortable you are with that risk. Some people are willing to take the chance and some are not. No one can tell you (including me) exactly what you are really getting into. Could be easy - could be a nightmare - most likely to be somewhere in between - but no one can say for sure.

There isn't any right answer.

Is there any chance that the owner will let you pay to have the car flatbedded to a shop for an inspection? This might be the best $500-$700 that you could spend because it would tell you exactly what you're getting into.

The one thing I can say is that if you do decide to jump in, the folks on this forum will help you every step of the way. The knowledge and helpfulness here is unmatched and unrivaled (IMHO).

You are potentially playing Russia Roulette here, the car could have anything between a loose wire to a trashed engine. Without experienced eyes looking at the car, the repair could range from a couple of bucks to several times the purchase price. Either have someone look at the car, or move on to anther candidate.

If you can get it down to $3k it might be worth taking the risk. If it ends up going wrong you can sell the hardtop assuming it's in good condition for $800 to $1,200 and then sell the car as a roller. $4k is too much for a non-S Boxster with unknown isses. BTW - take the hardtop off and see what condition the top is in. A new top even if you do it yourself is going to run you about $600.

I'm sure you know there are plenty of used Boxsters in the Phoenix area and plenty of good Porsche shops that can do a PPI (a must in my opinion) for you. If you need a few names PM me. At about $5k you can find '97 to '99 Boxsters. Even at this price they are going to need help. Good luck.

I'm going to go with everyone's advice and pass on this one for now and wait to see the interest. I agree in the Phoenix/Tucson area there are others in the price range that run.

Good advice by all, but if you want to buy a Boxster go ahead & buy the Durametric software for Porsche's. You need a laptop, then you can scan the cel & see what caused it & have some insight as to why it won't run. Also will tell you if the engine has been overreved enough to damage engine. Also remove oil filter canister to inspect for metal.
I would buy the car if it passed these simple tests. Keeping in mind it's a $ 8,000 car if it runs decently.

PS. A hardtop in Tucson is useless & a pain to store or sell.

Wise decision.

If the owner could make it run and get $8K for it instead, I'm sure he would have.

Don't give it another thought, just move on to something that you know is working. There are plenty to choose from if you search online.

Someone on this site once stated...

"The most expensive car I have ever owned was one of the cheapest cars I've ever bought."

There's no such thing as a cheap Porsche.

It wasn't my original thought, but I've quoted that phrase a hundred times on this forum since 2004 when I bought my "amazingly low priced 1997 Boxster."

OP: Best to buy a running Boxster if you can find one in your price range, but just know that even a well kept Boxster in the $5000 price range is going to need a couple of grand in repairs and maintenance every year you own it, and some years it will be double that... or it will sit in the garage getting dusty.

Ok, one more vehicle in Tucson to consider:

1997 Boxster Base
121000 miles
Needs O2 sensors
Radiator is leaking
Starts and runs
$3400 (asking price)

Paint is a little faded. Seats are worn and torn. Top and body is in pretty good shape.

Any thoughts?

If I had a budget of $5000 I'd be looking at an Mazda MX5, first gen SLK or maybe even an SL with some miles and questionable history before diving into a non running Boxster. There's a lot of $8000 Boxsters out there, good running with some history. Can you spend a little more?

That's the next decision. If all of the Boxsters in my price range don't pan out, I will have to wait, save some more, and then resume the hunt. But a lot of the good runners I am finding have prices that are way too much to spend. An example is a 97 Base with 110000 miles for $10000.

tada: on that 97 boxster, the 02 sensors will cost you $425 (parts only) or so to replace (all four should be replaced at the same time). Is the radiator leaking or the coolant overflow tank? The coolant overflow tank is a typical problem area for the Boxster and I had to replace mine. These are about $200 for the part and about 2 hours of knuckle bleeding installation. Seats can be purchased at some point from someone turning their Boxster or 996 into a race car.

Aside from motor issues, a 97 with this many miles (similar to my car in a lot of ways) will probably need wheel bearings and all the control arms and drop links replaced, and possibly the struts if they're original. That's gonna set you back $2500 or more for parts alone for new genuine Pcar parts. (I'd buy good quality used parts off a low mileage wrecked 2000's model though b/c they're the same pieces and a lot cheaper than new or noisy aftermarket suspension parts.

Hope this helps!

PS - That 99 box with 110k on it for $10,000??? That would be my car if I sold it because it's been fully sorted and is very dependable and doesn't need anything... Every part on the car has been changed out with the exception of the dash, the body work, and one of the radiators and the fluid lines. New motor, newer tranny, new interior, xenon headlamps, new tail lamps, glass window top, new windshield, wheel bearings and suspension replaced, etc. ... which explains why I cannot sell my car. I have $40k or more in it now and it's not even worth $10,000 to guys in the market for one. Oh well.

Well, just saw the 97 and it was beat! The left radiator was introduced to a curb and now leaks. The car ran really rough. The interior was ok. The body was heavily oxidized. The passenger fender was dented. Both bumpers looked really worked over. I guess the search continues. I'll just wait for the Durametric tester to get here.

Someone played a cruel joke on you advising that... If it was your mechanic, find a new one ASAP!!!

:)

That red 97 is begging for a new life as a spec Boxster racecar!

There are some good ones in texas, often good drivers for less than 7 or 8k
Houston, san antonio, etc but again that woulb de the tip of the iceberg, from there pcars are a money pit (well worh for us that love them and don't mind wrenching or paying premium part and labor prices)

It's not inadvisable. If you don't replace them at the same time they don't get any younger. At the least they should be replaced in pairs.

I disagree. When it's 115 it's really nice to have a hardtop. Especially with the window tinted.

The key to your search will be patience. You will eventually find the right car. You will just have to sift through all of the unloved ones. When you find the right one, you will know. At least you will think you know. Make sure you get a PPI once you find the one! Even if you are going to wrench on it, you want to know what you are getting into. There are lots of gotchas on these cars and hopefully the PPI will allow you to buy a project car that is not too much of a project! There is a wealth of information on this forum so don't hesitate to ask. Good luck in your search and welcome to the forum! :cheers:

Take a look at the Los Angeles market. There are a ton of Boxsters for sale out here. Find one and I'll pick you up at the airport and take you to it. A fun 500 mile drive and you're home!

No true either. For the countless time...

Error codes showing bad O2 sensor(s) only mean value being reported from sensor is outside of norm. Period.

Before replacing ANY O2 sensor you need to find out WHY it/they caused error code. Could be MAF is bad but you won't know until after you've thrown many $100 at sensors and subsequently a couple more at a new MAF. Maybe mice chewed thru lead wire of one... you only need to replace that one, or for some odd reason one prematurely fails - no need to replace 3 others when they test fine. After all they're sold as 'eaches' for a reason and not pairs or sets like brake pads.

O2 sensors are easily tested w/ a multi-meter to find out if good or not. Only then should you replace bad one(s). Personally, I've had O2 sensors outlast others by more than 20,000 miles regardless of B / S positioning.

Should one replace all four tires and TPMS valve stems every time TPMS light illuminates - or just "in pairs" as you prescribe? ;)

Yeah I'm clear on how you diagnose an o2 sensor issue. I had the same advice when I had an issue with my pre cat o2 sensors. Took a lot of diagnosis. Finally my mechanic found an o2 sensor wasn't conforming and had quite high resistance. Offered to change both. I said just the bad one. A month later the other one went out. So yeah, if they are the same age and one has a confirmed issue, I think it makes sense to replace them in pairs. By your logic if all my tires are old but only one goes flat I should only replace the flat tire right? It's called preventative maintenance for a reason.

I'd ask old or worn out tires but that's moot b/c you wouldn't have any since you replace all every time the TPMS light came on ;)

I have an 02. No TPMS ;)

I will say I do see your point. Don't fix what ain't broke. My experience was that the o2 sensors in my car were like two old people that had been married 50 years. Once the one died the other one went soon after. Really a sad and poignant love story. For o2 sensors.

I have bought plenty of Boxsters for around $5k or less. I have not regretted one, but I consider it fun to take on the challenge of fixing them and learning about them.

First Boxster (Black '99) had a few cosmetic issues, but has been a great running car. Over 1-1/2 years, it didn't need anything other than normal maintenance. Just sold it for over $5k with 141k miles and running strong. Got well over my money's worth of fun driving it.

Second Boxster ('01) was water damaged salvage and had a non-repairable engine. On the road and running great for a 'net' of about $4K after buying a parts car for the engine and selling a few key parts.

Third Boxster (Silver '99) salvage from a front end collision. After fees and repairs, I'm in for about $5k again and I absolutely love the car.

It goes on, but you may get the idea. You CAN get a good Boxster for about $5k. It just involves risk assessment/mitigation, lots of DIY, some parts from Woody, and help and advice of the Forum members.

Perhaps I am riding on the ragged edge of Boxster ownership. I do not fear a 'Salvage' or 'Rebuilt' title if I clearly understand why it has that label. Many cars with unbranded titles may have worse damage hidden. I do my own PPI mostly to assess what my total loss will be if I have to scrap the car. If it's a gain at my price, it's a go.

I would have made an offer on the first car you posted. An offer low enough that I would expect it to be turned down. Heck, buy the worst one you can find for the lowest you can get it. Tear it apart. Find out what makes it tick ...and then buy one that isn't ticking quite so loudly.

Good luck, and have fun with it. :cheers:

I'm off tomorrow, so I am going to go down and take a look at it. I got access to an iCarsoft POR II (not debating it vs. Durametric, it was available to use for free) and I'm going to check to see what codes it is giving. I'll be looking for the obvious blown head, will watch the tach to maybe test for CPS while cranking it (if it doesn't throw a code), listen for the fuel pump and relay, and just look it over in general. If it looks good, I may take the risk. You saw that I am prepared to work on myself and learn the car. Any other apparent things you all can think to look for in a non runner? Thanks!

Again, I have TMI:

Search for how to jump the fuel relay. *Consider that suddenly making the car run, may be bad for negotiations.

Aside from why it doesn't run:

Have a way to jack the car up.

It is easy to pull the oil filter and get a look at the oil and filter. It takes a 76mm 14 flute filter wrench. Have a pan or papers to catch the drips, but no oil should run out as long as it's fairly level. Bring a magnet. A few aluminum sparkles and very tiny bits of plastic or sealant may be okay.

Put the top in the service position. Pull the storage compartment, and engine cover. Leaks? Cracked plastic? Does anything not look 'factory'? Has the owner messed with anything trying to fix it?

Don't laser focus on just the engine.

Look over the undercarriage. Are the plastic belly pans intact. Leaks? Hoses straight and secured? Jacking points damaged? Brakes, brake hoses? Heavy tire wear on the inside? Rubber boots, bushings, links...

Do all the proper dash lights come on with the key turned? Windows function properly? HVAC controls work/LCDs good? Headlights - good clear surface, no cracks in corner pieces, burned inner lens?

Frunk: All the plastic covers intact? GOOD spare tire with tools and jack?

Trunk: Clean, no evidence of leaks? Draw some coolant out. Clear? Yellow/green/pink? Non-Porsche coolant can be okay. Mixing coolant types is not okay.

Every little part that you need will cost 3x more than it would for a Ford/Honda....

I saw the ad. Looks clean and cared for in the pics anyway. 4-stalk with OBC. I'd be strong at $3k for a buy as a roller and inch my way up from there if everything else looks good.

Thank you so much for the advice. No, I don't want to make it run in front of the owner, that would drive the price higher. I just want to get a general idea of the condition. I'll take your list with me and work through it.

I think 78F350's advice is excellent. Consider it a roller and buy it as such. If you can't get it running, you can either resell it intact as a roller or part it out, depending on how much time you have.

Well, I bought it. I checked it out. No blown head gasket. No IMS failure. No CEL. Just wouldn't start. I put the icarsoft on it and found no codes being thrown. Just a low battery voltage indicator. The oil and filter looked good. Radiator coolant was clean. Underbelly had all parts. Engine cover was there unmolested. Even had the windscreens. Paid $4k. Having it flat bedded right now. Got it to start after the owner left by jump starting it. It will idle but barely. Really sounding rough.

Congrats! We need pictures though or it didn't happen, forum rules;):D Good luck with it, hopefully it will be an easy fix:cheers:

Welcome to the dark side
I hope it's tune up stuff
Maybe you can make a TV show out of it - call it "Wheeler Dealers"

Congrats! If it was as good as the pictures in the ad and the engine is generally intact, it's a great deal and should be a fun project.

I've been working on my most recent project today. I replaced the AOS and ran it a bit. It ran terrible. Misfires on 5 & 6 (p0300, p0305, p0306). My mind quickly went to some expensive worst case scenarios.

...It was just spark plugs. Two Spark Plugs.

Ok, here are some of the first pics, including a video of it starting.

Here it is getting loaded up:
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Here it is getting delivered:
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Only real body damage I can find:
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I've got some video of it starting, and subsequently dying upon application of fuel, but I don't know how to post videos here.

Here's the video:

Looks like in the video you have a slow blinking light on the temp gauge when it is running - Low coolant level. Just get some DISTILLED Water for now to top it off.

After you get it running well, I'd recommend a coolant flush and replace the water pump, unless you know it was done. I think replacement every 3-5 years is the recommended interval. (search it)

Check your coolant cap in the trunk for a leak. Make sure you have the new style cap. (search it)

Again, congrats! :cheers:

Thanks! I'll work on the coolant level tomorrow. As for the stumbling, I'll start checking out the plugs and coil packs, and clean the MAF. And charge or replace the battery. It was unable to even turn over shortly after the video without a jump.