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Old 12-04-2015, 09:53 AM   #1
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Porsche Mission E set for launch by 2020

It will be way out of my price range but it is coming out.

Porsche Mission E set for launch by 2020

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Old 12-04-2015, 12:17 PM   #2
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another four years?

"The concept featured two permanent magnet synchronous motors with over 590 horsepower, all-wheel drive with torque vectoring, and four-wheel steering."

You can buy a Tesla Model S P90 today with 700 HP for $100k or typical basic 911 price.
And the car already has full autopilot mode.
I'm sure by 2020 the Model S P100D will have private jet plane mode.
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Old 12-04-2015, 07:47 PM   #3
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another four years?

"The concept featured two permanent magnet synchronous motors with over 590 horsepower, all-wheel drive with torque vectoring, and four-wheel steering."

You can buy a Tesla Model S P90 today with 700 HP for $100k or typical basic 911 price.
And the car already has full autopilot mode.
I'm sure by 2020 the Model S P100D will have private jet plane mode.
The Model S is extremely impressive but it's not a sports car.
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Old 12-06-2015, 10:38 AM   #4
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another four years?
When it comes to electric cars, there isn't any hurry to get to market. Customer adoption of pure electric cars is generally considered pathetic.

Tesla is on track to sell 25K cars this year and Nissan will sell about 20K Leaf's. Throw in the Ford e-Focus, Chevy Spark, Fiat e-500, along with a few others and the total US market is less than 70,000 cars. That's it folks! The total electric car market is 35% less than the market for Subaru Outbacks alone (which sold 108,000).

Percentage-wise, EV's are about 1.1% of the passenger car market (>6,000,000 cars in 2015) with an anemic growth of 0.1% over 2014.

Thus, Porsche is more than happy to let Tesla to continue to take all of the risks in this segment (and continue to lose money on every car sold) until the market starts to mature.

EV sales data:
Tanking Nissan LEAF Takes US Electric Car Market With It

Passenger car sales data; Note: The Buick Verano sells as well as the Tesla Model S. Whatever a Buick Verano is.
September 2015 YTD U.S. Passenger Car Sales Rankings - Top 158 Best-Selling Cars In America - Every Car Ranked - GOOD CAR BAD CAR
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Old 12-07-2015, 07:26 AM   #5
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^ This is the same business strategy Blackberry and Palm pursued when the iPhone arrived. The market for "all touch, no buttons" smartphones was less than 1%. No rush....Let's sit back and let Apple take all the risks in the premium smartphone segment...
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Old 12-07-2015, 07:34 AM   #6
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The Model S is extremely impressive but it's not a sports car.
I don't think the deep-pocketed buyer of either 600+ HP car is really looking to drive either of these cars like actual sports cars.
That's the German sports car market in a nut shell, ditto for $5-$10K mountain bikes that never see a trail.
Deep pocket buyers will be going for Tesla Model S or Porsche Mission E primarily because of the mix of technology and instant power on hand.
I don't think there's any way of avoiding the fact that the top Tesla option and the Mission E will be cross-shopped by those who can afford these cars.
Which means the Mission E is going to have to blow the doors off Tesla P100D or whatever, if its going to cost 4x's as much.
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Old 12-07-2015, 09:32 AM   #7
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A buddy has clients who have owned Teslas and traded them after 2 years. They can barely make it from Houston to Dallas without running out of electric power, and that's if they drive slowly. Renting a car for a single day trip to Austin or Dallas is a pain in the butt according to the owners and they're tired of it.

There may be a few quick-charge stations or battery swap facilities between LA and SF, but there's nothing like that here in Texas.

Electric cars are just not ready for prime time.
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Old 12-07-2015, 10:20 AM   #8
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I don't think the deep-pocketed buyer of either 600+ HP car is really looking to drive either of these cars like actual sports cars.
That's the German sports car market in a nut shell, ditto for $5-$10K mountain bikes that never see a trail.
Deep pocket buyers will be going for Tesla Model S or Porsche Mission E primarily because of the mix of technology and instant power on hand.
I don't think there's any way of avoiding the fact that the top Tesla option and the Mission E will be cross-shopped by those who can afford these cars.
Which means the Mission E is going to have to blow the doors off Tesla P100D or whatever, if its going to cost 4x's as much.
Porsche separates itself in the market by being the sportest of the cars/SUVs in it's segment. We will have to see what they actually bring to market. Right now that's not clear with rumors being that it could even be the next 911.

Porsche also actually makes money on the cars they sell. Right now Tesla does not and it's not clear when/if they will. The new Model X (lookswise it's a turd) in my opinion isn't going to fix that. Believe me I'm routing for Tesla but succeeding in the car making business is exceedingly difficult. I can't think of a new car company succeeding in recent history.

BTW, Apple wasn't always first to market (iPod, iPad, etc.) but have many times taken a concept and been able to excute on it much better then their competitors and bring to market products people want at a premium price. Porsche wasn't close to being first to the market with SUV's but I think we can all agreed they have been successful.
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Old 12-08-2015, 07:27 PM   #9
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^ This is the same business strategy Blackberry and Palm pursued when the iPhone arrived. The market for "all touch, no buttons" smartphones was less than 1%. No rush....Let's sit back and let Apple take all the risks in the premium smartphone segment...
You might be absolutely right. Or not.

But for some reason no one ever uses the Apple Lisa or the Newton as an example...
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Old 12-09-2015, 07:27 AM   #10
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Porsche also actually makes money on the cars they sell. Right now Tesla does not and it's not clear when/if they will. The new Model X (lookswise it's a turd) in my opinion isn't going to fix that. Believe me I'm routing for Tesla but succeeding in the car making business is exceedingly difficult. I can't think of a new car company succeeding in recent history.
Earnings have become harder and harder to come by for any publicly traded business.
The first that comes to mind is Amazon. I've tracked my purchases with this company ever since the late 90's. They are in the rare position of being one of the few companies who get more of my money each year than the previous year. I have basically stopped supporting corporate brick and mortar chains, Amazon is getting nearly all of that money.
Yet where are the earnings? I think El Chapo escaped with them when he broke out of prison. Tesla will never make money probably. Things are different now, it's about market share. Tesla will dominate the alternative to the IC engine car. Once their battery factories are in full swing the whole vehicle pricing equation changes and it's not just a rich person option anymore. And low gas prices will end at some point, I think the end of China's one child policy will be a big role in this -- they will be consuming more of everything for generations to come. Ditto for India who are a bigger threat to U.S. employment, both blue collar and white collar. The combination of India and China spending more per person will put the expectation of demand back in favor of oil suppliers and speculators so gas prices will once again be high at some point while the average U.S. worker's pay check is stagnant for the forseeable future since we don't manufacture anything at a large enough scale to employ everyone. I predict a big enough chunk of these middle income workers will get tired or fearful of these very volatile swings in oil prices and look for vehicle options that allow them to make a fuel budget and stick to it. We're the Saudi Arabia of coal, making electricity with more stable price action will never be a problem here. I think Musk knows its just a matter of waiting for all this to fall in line.
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Old 12-09-2015, 07:34 AM   #11
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You might be absolutely right. Or not.

But for some reason no one ever uses the Apple Lisa or the Newton as an example...
if it were left up to Steve Jobs we might not even have an iPhone, since he famously balked at letting Windows users have iPods. Over my dead body!!! or something along those lines. Without Windows users buying 100 million iPods....Apple might have gone under or been acquired by Staples or Hostess Cakes.
I hope Musk learns not to let his personal biases get in the way of good business decisions.
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Old 12-09-2015, 09:02 AM   #12
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Earnings have become harder and harder to come by for any publicly traded business.
The first that comes to mind is Amazon. I've tracked my purchases with this company ever since the late 90's. They are in the rare position of being one of the few companies who get more of my money each year than the previous year. I have basically stopped supporting corporate brick and mortar chains, Amazon is getting nearly all of that money.
Yet where are the earnings? I think El Chapo escaped with them when he broke out of prison. Tesla will never make money probably. Things are different now, it's about market share. Tesla will dominate the alternative to the IC engine car. Once their battery factories are in full swing the whole vehicle pricing equation changes and it's not just a rich person option anymore. And low gas prices will end at some point, I think the end of China's one child policy will be a big role in this -- they will be consuming more of everything for generations to come. Ditto for India who are a bigger threat to U.S. employment, both blue collar and white collar. The combination of India and China spending more per person will put the expectation of demand back in favor of oil suppliers and speculators so gas prices will once again be high at some point while the average U.S. worker's pay check is stagnant for the forseeable future since we don't manufacture anything at a large enough scale to employ everyone. I predict a big enough chunk of these middle income workers will get tired or fearful of these very volatile swings in oil prices and look for vehicle options that allow them to make a fuel budget and stick to it. We're the Saudi Arabia of coal, making electricity with more stable price action will never be a problem here. I think Musk knows its just a matter of waiting for all this to fall in line.
Amazon I get. They are sticking every penny they make back into the business. This is a change from the past as investors generally have demanded actual earnings earlier. These days they seem much more patiencent with some types of business. Just don't let a equity firm get a hold of the business.

Agreed that electrics are the future of personal transportation. Even though the US has alot of coal that form of energy is being crushed due to cheap natural gas. We'll see what the future bring but it will certainly be interesting. With electrics I hoping for some exciting sports cars. So far I have not seen anythingI want but I am hopeful.

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