981 the new 986 ?

[Perfectlap]

Originally Posted by 986_inquiry

996 dropped like a rock because of the headlights. They're selling for less than 987's right now. I don't think the 997 or 991 is going to drop as fast because they look much more modern than the 996.

I've even seen 996 turbos for under 40k

That would be a sweet ride! If you can get past the old looking headlights...

That's funny because the 996 was a progression (modern) while the 997 was regression (classic) to the original VW'esque round headlight. No question that the high fenders and round lights are the preference for many if not most, but the 996 is not cheap because of its looks. It's cheap because they sold so many of them. When the last round headlight 993 rolled off the assembly line Porsche could only muster ~1,600 sales in all of North America (!!!). That's just mind-boggling if you consider that was in the midst of the greatest bull market in anyone's life time. High rollers were buying two of everything except Carreras. The 996 shows up and sales literally blow the roof off the factory. The era of the mass produced Porsche had begun and ironically, mass produced Porsches simply hold no value no matter what they look like, modern or classic. The exception are those with limited production engines like the GT3/2. Put it this way, had the 996 been exactly like the 993 on the outside but with a water-cooled engine inside, it would still be selling cheap. And had that been the case I'm not so sure that 993 resale was be nearly what it is today because many first time buyers are simply after the look which would not be so limited in the market had the 993 gone into mass production with a water-cooled engine. But one has to ask would a 993 air-cooled or water-cooled sold as well as the 996's number in the early 2000's? I think its doubtful, beyond the niche traditionalist (the same ones pumping of air-cooled prices today) the broader market wanted something all new with a modern flair like the Boxster Concept car and the simultaneously developed 996. Either way today there simply are not enough first time buyers for used, out-of-warranty Porsches that require overpriced parts and specialized labor to soak up all that supply of a very successful 996 production run. Once they hear about "routine" $4k Clutch/IMS/RMS quotes they run :chicken:

P.S.
I'll take the fried egg headlights over round lights all day long. I just wish Porsche would have combined both fried egg headlights and high bulging fenders like on the GT1 LMP. That would have been a very exotic looking Carrera. One you could park next to any McLaren or Ferrari.

[BIGJake111]

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

P.S.
I'll take the fried egg headlights over round lights all day long. I just wish Porsche would have combined both fried egg headlights and high bulging fenders like on the GT1 LMP. That would have been a very exotic looking Carrera. One you could park next to any McLaren or Ferrari.

But then wouldn't this happen?

http://youtu.be/_ldoGjqijCw

(You hit the nail on the head about simply over supply for a used high cost sports car, it has nothing to do with looks. If it's anything specific other than a culmination of the type of car it is and supply then it's the IMS hysteria.)

[Perfectlap]

Originally Posted by BIGJake111

But then wouldn't this happen?

http://youtu.be/_ldoGjqijCw

(You hit the nail on the head about simply over supply for a used high cost sports car, it has nothing to do with looks. If it's anything specific other than a culmination of the type of car it is and supply then it's the IMS hysteria.)

Hey racing cars do crazy things on racing tracks. But the fried egg lights GT1 LMP was the last Porsche to win the overall at the 24 Hours of Le Mans for nearly 16 years until the hybrid 919 (also without round lights) this year. For homologation they did sell the GT1 as a "911" for street use, but there was nothing really Carrera about it other than the 993 front end chassis. It was a mid-mounted water pumper.

[986_inquiry]

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

That's funny because the 996 was a progression (modern) while the 997 was regression (classic) to the original VW'esque round headlight. No question that the high fenders and round lights are the preference for many if not most, but the 996 is not cheap because of its looks. It's cheap because they sold so many of them.

idk, most agree, it's the ugly non-traditional headlights. Porsche has had round and oval headlights forever, the fried egg was not popular. The well documented IMS problems didn't help things.

Here

But if you ask a Porsche enthusiast about the 996, you'll get this look, as if you're in the middle of a Mopar meet, and you just went up to some Dodge-loving, Barracuda-driving, Hemi-obsessed redneck and asked what he thinks about the PT Cruiser.

And I admit, Porsche enthusiasts have their reasons for hating the 996. For one thing, they hate the headlights, which did away with the traditional circular look in favor of an unusual new design that resembles a pre-schooler's misguided portrait of the family dog. They hate that it's water-cooled, not air-cooled like earlier models. And then there's the matter of the engine, namely the fact that — at any moment — it may catastrophically fail without warning.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Porsche/comments/2bihx3/why_does_no_one_like_the_996/

The headlights are a problem. But it's not just that. See, back when they were developing the 996 they were also developing the new Boxster. In order to cut costs, they developed both to share a LOT of parts, including pretty much the whole front end.
This wouldn't have been a problem, but they unfortunately released the Boxster first. Then the "new" 911 followed. Every die-hard 911 fan was shocked to see the 911 look just like a "cheap" Boxster from the front.
If only they released the 996 first, THEN the Boxster, everything would have been OK. 911 die-hards would have said "oh, that's cute - the Boxster wants to be like our beloved 911! Awwww..." But they really screwed up the timing.
Plus, the fried egg headlight is just plain ugly.
Oh, and IMS bearing. Ooops.

I bought a 987 for almost triple the price of a 986 because I didn't like that the 986 headlights looked so old and I was trying to avoid most IMS issues.

[Perfectlap]

Originally Posted by 986_inquiry

idk, most agree, it's the ugly non-traditional headlights. Porsche has had round and oval headlights forever, the fried egg was not popular. The well documented IMS problems didn't help things.

not popular? fried eggs by number of vehicles sold vs. round lights sold, was the most popular headlight in the history of Porsche up the point that they went back to round lights. When you're talking about the niche enthusiast crowd that insist on round headlights you're talking about a sliver of a sliver of Porsche ownership since the company's renaissance. Porsche wouldn't be selling 200K cars today from the time they barely sold 1,600 911's in North America if it were up to those purists. Actually if were up to them there might not even have been a Porsche left standing today.

As far as the IMS thing, that's a situation where people repeating misinformation is exponentially worse than the problem itself. Or YouTube bloggers and writers like Dutch Mandel who talk of m96 IMS issues to newbies without even a mention that for at least 6 years there's been a simple "day in the shop" fix that doesn't require even pulling the engine or simply an add on item when you do your clutch. According to our resident engine experts, the m97 engine in 987.1's is simply a glorified version of the 986 engine since 2000.

[Giller]

[QUOTE=986_inquiry;465450]idk, most agree, it's the ugly non-traditional headlights. Porsche has had round and oval headlights forever, the fried egg was not popular. The well documented IMS problems didn't help things.

Not sure where you are getting 'most agree'. As PL said - a sliver of a sliver. Frankly, I think the headlights look great, especially if they are de-ambered and nice and clear. They look great and distinctive.

I do recognize now though that the 987's lights do look more modern...but that's because they are. Doesn't make the classic 986 lights any less attractive. Eventually the 987 lights might look old next to whatever comes next.

[papasmurf]

I think something that has not been mentioned is that the market for used cars and used sports cars in general is not what it used to be. People are much more likely to buy a SUV or truck over a sports car than they would have in years past especially if they can get a newer vehicle for the same price of the older used sports car. Sports cars are just not as desirable to today's buyers and the younger generation as they were in years past...people see success as an Escalade rolling on 26" wheels with 8 TV screens in it. Cars are easily replaceable appliances nowadays and many are okay with that.

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

That's funny because the 996 was a progression (modern) while the 997 was regression (classic) to the original VW'esque round headlight. No question that the high fenders and round lights are the preference for many if not most, but the 996 is not cheap because of its looks. It's cheap because they sold so many of them. When the last round headlight 993 rolled off the assembly line Porsche could only muster ~1,600 sales in all of North America (!!!). That's just mind-boggling if you consider that was in the midst of the greatest bull market in anyone's life time. High rollers were buying two of everything except Carreras. The 996 shows up and sales literally blow the roof off the factory. The era of the mass produced Porsche had begun and ironically, mass produced Porsches simply hold no value no matter what they look like, modern or classic. The exception are those with limited production engines like the GT3/2. Put it this way, had the 996 been exactly like the 993 on the outside but with a water-cooled engine inside, it would still be selling cheap. And had that been the case I'm not so sure that 993 resale was be nearly what it is today because many first time buyers are simply after the look which would not be so limited in the market had the 993 gone into mass production with a water-cooled engine. But one has to ask would a 993 air-cooled or water-cooled sold as well as the 996's number in the early 2000's? I think its doubtful, beyond the niche traditionalist (the same ones pumping of air-cooled prices today) the broader market wanted something all new with a modern flair like the Boxster Concept car and the simultaneously developed 996. Either way today there simply are not enough first time buyers for used, out-of-warranty Porsches that require overpriced parts and specialized labor to soak up all that supply of a very successful 996 production run. Once they hear about "routine" $4k Clutch/IMS/RMS quotes they run :chicken:

P.S.
I'll take the fried egg headlights over round lights all day long. I just wish Porsche would have combined both fried egg headlights and high bulging fenders like on the GT1 LMP. That would have been a very exotic looking Carrera. One you could park next to any McLaren or Ferrari.

[Perfectlap]

^ That's so true. Convertible sports cars used to be "chick cars" 20 years ago... as in the the car every young woman dreamed of. Now young women dream about Range Rovers and Cayennes.