Am I Crazy or is the Boxster More than Enough

[mjw930]

You can love the Boxster and still love and own a 911 without there being any contradiction.

I've owned a couple 911's including the car nicknamed the Widow Maker (930) as well as Corvettes and various sport sedans and no matter what I'm in I always find myself drawn back to the 911. Driven properly the experience is so visceral and rewarding that it's impossible to put into words.

In the $80K range (and there are hundreds of brand new $80K 911's siting in dealer's stock) you really only have a few competitors. Corvette Z-06 and Viper come to mind and while they have great numbers I think you'll find the daily drive ability of the Vette and Viper to be far less than the 911. In that price range (under $100K) there really isn't any other car that can give you both the luxury and performance of a 911.

In my perfect world my garage would have my Boxster S, a 996/997 turbo or GT3, a Cayenne Turbo and a late 70's 911SC track car. I have no desire at this point in my life to waste my hard earned money on pretenders........

[Brucelee]

I am a big fan of the 911 C2.. Sweet car.

For the money, the ZO6 is simply going to eat the 911 alive and still be civilized to drive everyday.

Gets 29 MPG on the highway too!

C'mon, Porsche, get cracking!

[mjw930]

Originally Posted by Brucelee

I am a big fan of the 911 C2.. Sweet car.

For the money, the ZO6 is simply going to eat the 911 alive and still be civilized to drive everyday.

Gets 29 MPG on the highway too!

C'mon, Porsche, get cracking!

Yep, every decade or so Chevy has to one up Porsche.

Of course what would happen if you put the new GT3 or Turbo up against the Z-06. Drop a stock C6 on the track against a stock 997 and see what happens. The Z-06 is the pinnacle of Vette development, you have to step up to the GT3 if you want a comparable Porsche.

Cost is always going to be miles apart, it has been since the beginning. Then again one manufacturer has one foot in bankruptcy court and the other is the most successfully independent car builder in the world.

[MNBoxster]

Originally Posted by mjw930

You can love the Boxster and still love and own a 911 without there being any contradiction.

I've owned a couple 911's including the car nicknamed the Widow Maker (930) as well as Corvettes and various sport sedans and no matter what I'm in I always find myself drawn back to the 911. Driven properly the experience is so visceral and rewarding that it's impossible to put into words.

In the $80K range (and there are hundreds of brand new $80K 911's siting in dealer's stock) you really only have a few competitors. Corvette Z-06 and Viper come to mind and while they have great numbers I think you'll find the daily drive ability of the Vette and Viper to be far less than the 911. In that price range (under $100K) there really isn't any other car that can give you both the luxury and performance of a 911.

In my perfect world my garage would have my Boxster S, a 996/997 turbo or GT3, a Cayenne Turbo and a late 70's 911SC track car. I have no desire at this point in my life to waste my hard earned money on pretenders........

Hi,

I respect your opinion, but glancing at your signature and it's probably fair to say you possess a fairly pronounced bias. Nothing wrong with that. But, how many other types of cars have you been intimate with? There're lots of great cars out there with lots of different feels to them, neither right or wrong, Greater or Lesser, just different.

In my Perfect Garage I'd have, in addition to my Boxster, an '06 Z06, a '58 Speedster, a '66 Austin-Healey 3000 MkIII, a '69 Lotus Elan SE, a '68 Fiat Dino Spyder, a '99 Dodge Viper GTS, a '72 Lamborghini Miura SV, and as my Track Car either a '07 Lotus Exige or an '86 Toyota MR2 SC - Variety is the Spice of Life...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

[MNBoxster]

Originally Posted by mjw930

... Then again one manufacturer has one foot in bankruptcy court and the other is the most successfully independent car builder in the world.

Hi,

Are you kidding me? 10 years ago their positions were reversed with Porsche not being able to borrow a dime on a street corner. Only the Cayenne, an SUV, (and not the progeny of any Race Heritage by any stretch) pulled them back from the abyss. If they had relied on the 911 and Boxster to do that, they's have gone the way of the Dodo and been relegated to the pages of Nostalgia and History Books.

Chevy's (GM) problem stems mainly from their Union Benefit and Retirement obligations, not from Unit sales - they're even obligated to pick up the Tab on Viagra for the ED crowd, which explains why the Steering Wheels on Chevys are pushed so far forward.

Chevy has been producing the Corvette for nearly as many years as Porsche has been building cars, who has racked up more sales?

The Porsche Uber Alles Crowd needs to come to grips with the fact that theirs isn't the only great car made and that admitting so will not have the Porsche Gestapo deporting you in the middle of the night !...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

[eslai]

Originally Posted by mjw930

In the $80K range (and there are hundreds of brand new $80K 911's siting in dealer's stock) you really only have a few competitors. Corvette Z-06 and Viper come to mind and while they have great numbers I think you'll find the daily drive ability of the Vette and Viper to be far less than the 911. In that price range (under $100K) there really isn't any other car that can give you both the luxury and performance of a 911.

SD987 is really reading my mind in this thread. I'm waiting for the next NSX, or maybe the Nissan GT-R...

[MNBoxster]

Originally Posted by eslai

SD987 is really reading my mind in this thread. I'm waiting for the next NSX, or maybe the Nissan GT-R...

Hi,

I had the opportunity to House Sit for a '96 NSX which the owner wanted driven regularly while he was away on assignment to the Middle East for a year.

In that time, at his instruction, I put 3k+ mi. on the Car. My observations: The Car is a nice package on par, but certainly not greater than the Boxster Base. All the power came on waay too high in the Power Band - not until the VTEC did it's thing could you distinguish it from any Honda Civic. From 8 of 9 angles, it looked like any other Acura. It was lacking in any kind of Soul - it didn't elicit any feelings of driving something challenging or special. For me, it defined Automotive Boredom...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

[Perfectlap]

That car was developed extensively by Ayrton Senna during his McLaren/Honda days....for the track! What Honda did to it for daily knock around use was an aberration.

[eslai]

Originally Posted by MNBoxster

My observations: The Car is a nice package on par, but certainly not greater than the Boxster Base. All the power came on waay too high in the Power Band - not until the VTEC did it's thing could you distinguish it from any Honda Civic. From 8 of 9 angles, it looked like any other Acura. It was lacking in any kind of Soul - it didn't elicit any feelings of driving something challenging or special. For me, it defined Automotive Boredom...

100% agreement, which is why I didn't buy one. I hope the next one is a different beast.

[insite]

Originally Posted by SD987

Bottom line, for 911 money (a wide range) I can think of several other cars I'd purchase.

you gould get an Elise AND a 325.

[mach schnell]

my goal is to drive the Elise before June - I intended to test it before i got the box, but never got around to it. good thing, cuz i probably would have been so intoxicated with it that it would have come home with me. in the end, sacrificing the interior comforts would have worn on me, i'm sure, unless people just got out of my way on the freeway and i had a 'no speed limit pass'

i had a 9 minute video clip of some guy in europe at an autocross in an elise screaming past 911's and crotchrockets - just wicked :troll: i'll try to find it again and post it.

[BuffaloBoxster]

Originally Posted by 986Jim

I only have a Boxster because I can't afford a 911. If a 911 were the same price as a Boxster would any of us own one?

I certainly would. All you're doing is making the distinction between not fast enough and fast enough. We all know that the Boxster has the potential to be the better car. If the a hypothetical Boxster had the same wheel/tire package and the same drivetrain as a hypothetical 911, the Boxster would be the better car.

Porsche is crippling the Boxster in order keep the 911 alive.

I'd rather see it die personally.

[mjw930]

Originally Posted by MNBoxster

Hi,

I respect your opinion, but glancing at your signature and it's probably fair to say you possess a fairly pronounced bias. Nothing wrong with that. But, how many other types of cars have you been intimate with? There're lots of great cars out there with lots of different feels to them, neither right or wrong, Greater or Lesser, just different.

In my Perfect Garage I'd have, in addition to my Boxster, an '06 Z06, a '58 Speedster, a '66 Austin-Healey 3000 MkIII, a '69 Lotus Elan SE, a '68 Fiat Dino Spyder, a '99 Dodge Viper GTS, a '72 Lamborghini Miura SV, and as my Track Car either a '07 Lotus Exige or an '86 Toyota MR2 SC - Variety is the Spice of Life...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

Jim, I've owned over 30 cars in my lifetime with the majority of them sport or sport oriented. I've owned Corvettes, Mustangs, Vipers, BMW's, Volvo's and driven Ferrari's, Mazeratti's, Lamborghini's, Lotus' and Jag's. And yes, I have a Porsche bias, not because I haven't had access or been intimate with other cars but because after driving these other cars I feel "at home" in my Porsche's.

Also, my ideal garage is a listing of cars that I can or will be able afford in the foreseeable future. It isn't a list of "dream" cars that without hitting the lottery I have no chance of acquiring. I appreciate your list and they are fine examples of classics but those are not cars the I would spend my limited resources on. That doesn't make them any less desirable.

[mjw930]

Originally Posted by MNBoxster

Hi,

Are you kidding me? 10 years ago their positions were reversed with Porsche not being able to borrow a dime on a street corner. Only the Cayenne, an SUV, (and not the progeny of any Race Heritage by any stretch) pulled them back from the abyss. If they had relied on the 911 and Boxster to do that, they's have gone the way of the Dodo and been relegated to the pages of Nostalgia and History Books.

Chevy's (GM) problem stems mainly from their Union Benefit and Retirement obligations, not from Unit sales - they're even obligated to pick up the Tab on Viagra for the ED crowd, which explains why the Steering Wheels on Chevys are pushed so far forward.

Chevy has been producing the Corvette for nearly as many years as Porsche has been building cars, who has racked up more sales?

The Porsche Uber Alles Crowd needs to come to grips with the fact that theirs isn't the only great car made and that admitting so will not have the Porsche Gestapo deporting you in the middle of the night !...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

Did someone get up on the wrong side of the bed this morning? Jim, you need to chill.

BTW, the Boxster is the car that saved Porsche. It's the car that allowed them to build the Cayenne which, along with the Panamerica will take Porsche into the next decade and beyond. They are the vehicles that will allow Porsche to continue to build cars like the Boxster, 911 and now the Cayman.

To expect Porsche to stay the same is wishful thinking, they have to change to grow and they have to grow to survive.

Oh, and if you don't think that Porsche's race engineers had anything to do with the design of the Cayenne your sadly mistaken. A Racing heritage is why Porsche's SUV is the fastest and one of the most capable SUV's on the planet.

[Perfectlap]

Very True I believe a few years back the Cayenne Turbo lapped the N-Ring in the same time as the 986S.
I'd like to see someone do that in an Escalade!

[denverpete]

I just got my MT today and it has a comparison with
720 HP Accufab Ford GT ($172,862) 3.8s (0-60), 11.3s (1/4mi)
1100 HP Hennessey Viper ($187,710) 4.3s (0-60), 11.7s (1/4mi)
1000 HP Lingenfelter Corvette ($225,860) 4.3s (0-60), 11.9s (1/4mi)
840 HP Mustange GT ($69,995) 4.1s (0-60), 12.0s (1/4mi)
900 HP GTO ($79,180) 4.9s (0-60), 12.6s (1/4mi)

Compare that to
280 HP Boxster S ($67,520) 5.0s (0-60), 12.0 (1/4mi)
480 HP 911 Turbo ($122,900 base) 3.2s (0-60) 11.4 (1/4mi)

Hmm. Stock Boxster runs only a few tenths slower than an 1100 HP Viper to the quarter.

Hmm. The stock 911 Turbo (same issue) beats the pants off everyone to 60 and places 2nd through the quarter.

[MNBoxster]

Originally Posted by mjw930

Did someone get up on the wrong side of the bed this morning? Jim, you need to chill.

BTW, the Boxster is the car that saved Porsche. It's the car that allowed them to build the Cayenne which, along with the Panamerica will take Porsche into the next decade and beyond. They are the vehicles that will allow Porsche to continue to build cars like the Boxster, 911 and now the Cayman.

To expect Porsche to stay the same is wishful thinking, they have to change to grow and they have to grow to survive.

Oh, and if you don't think that Porsche's race engineers had anything to do with the design of the Cayenne your sadly mistaken. A Racing heritage is why Porsche's SUV is the fastest and one of the most capable SUV's on the planet.

Hi,

Not at all the wrong side of the Bed, in fact it was a great day for me. Received a nice check today from my Partners in a Business Venture I have been involved in. I decided to go silent a year ago and just sold my equity for a tidy sum, more than double my expectation.

But, on point, one of Keith Duckworth's (the Worth in Cosworth) favorite sayings was that " It's better to be uninformed than misinformed..." and in this case it applies to you.

True the Boxster pre-dates the Cayenne, but you're confusing this with cause & effect. The Boxster did not allow Porsche to build the Cayenne, far from it. The Boxster is a niche Market Car and has only sold 137,041 units worldwide through 2004 - 8 years of production (the latest year figures are available) while in two years, the Cayenne sold 66,074 units and is currently outselling the Boxster by slightly more than 3-to-1. (Source Porsche A.G. 2004 Annual Report).

Based on Porsche's own reporting, they operated at an avg. 16% margin since the Boxster introduction and prior to Cayenne Production. This yielded an annual profit boost to Porsche of about $120M hardly the stuff of Major Car Companies. Boxster Sales peaked in 2000 with sales of 27,865 units and have been falling off each year since with 2003 Unit Sales of 12,988 (Porsche does not distinguish between Base and 'S' Models). In 2003, Porsche sold 39,913 Cayennes (vs 12,988 Boxsters) and since Cayenne introduction, Porsche's margin has increased to 19%.

The fact is that most of Porsches revenues during that time came about through Worldwide Currency fluctuations, their Finance Arm, and 911 Sales. But it is the strong sales of the Cayenne and the resulting reduction in cost of goods sold which has boosted it's financial health, not the Boxster.

But, there may be trouble brewing. A probe has begun about possible collusion between Porsche (and major shareholders) and the Government of Lower Saxony with regard to their recent VW acquisitions. If founded, this will likely have a strong negative effect to their Balance Sheet.

So far as it being the Fastest SUV on the Planet, who cares? As has been mentioned in another thread, you can make anything go fast if you put a big enough motor in it. And, for anything other than a straight line on the Freeway, it's unusable power. Sure, some Pro may be able to mangle it around the N-Ring at speed, but not your avg. Soccer Mom or Dad. Carmella Soprano drives one for Heaven's sake - 'nuff said. World's Shortest List: #9 Muslims I have met in Bars, #10 Porsche Cayennes with actual Mud on them... Poser - King of the Posers maybe, but Poser nonetheless...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

[Brucelee]

The 0-60 times for these rarified cars is fast becoming irrlevant for these super cars. The reason? Well, as they pointed out with the Lingenfelter Corvette, there are simply no tires that will work on the car, too much power.

The 0-100 MPH or the quarter is actually a more resonable test when HP exceeds 600, unless there is real breakthrough in street tire technology or unless you run race tires.