Odometer Rolled Back On a Used Car

[KevinH1990]

My brother bought a used Honda Accord for his son on Saturday. The seller contacted him today and offered to buy the car back. Apparently the seller had been contacted by the Virginia DMV and informed of an "odometer discrepancy." It sounds like the discrepancy may have been as much as 75,000 miles.

My brother is scheduled to meet with the seller at 9:30 tomorrow to get his refund in cash. However, he would also like to collect some of his other fees such as taxes and registration.

According to vehicle registration forms on the Virginia DMV web site, "Failure to complete or providing false information may result in fines and/or imprisonment. (Sections 409, 412 and 413 of the Motor Vehicle Information and Cost Savings Act of 1972, Section 46.2-629 of the Code of Virginia.)"

Should my brother just take his money back and chalk this up as a lesson learned, or should he conduct the transaction at the DMV office to ensure that he has recourse in the event that something else goes awry.

Thanks for any suggestions - I'm a little out of my league on this one.

[Jamesp]

I'd provide the seller with an itemized list of monetary damages and walk away from the wasted time. If the seller refused to make me whole monetarily, I'd provide one more chance before going to the law. Either the seller screwed up, in which case the seller needs to settle damages, or its an attempted scam. The sellers attitude will demonstrate which it is.

[BoxsterSteve]

Originally Posted by Jamesp

The sellers attitude will demonstrate which it is.

It could go either way.
You might be in for a fight, or he may be very accommodating. Who knows, he may have bought the car at an auction and been sandpapered by the guy he got the vehicle from.
Sadly, this kind of thing is hardly a random occurrence. The used car industry can be crooked as hell.
Best of luck to your brother and his boy.

[Chuck W.]

Originally Posted by Jamesp

I'd provide the seller with an itemized list of monetary damages and walk away from the wasted time. If the seller refused to make me whole monetarily, I'd provide one more chance before going to the law. Either the seller screwed up, in which case the seller needs to settle damages, or its an attempted scam. The sellers attitude will demonstrate which it is.

Solid advise.

I was helping my son-in-law find a used Toyota 4-Runner. Everything looked great on one.... until we ran a CarFax. The odometer had been rolled back more than 60,000 miles. Seller played dumb.

[thstone]

Originally Posted by Chuck W.

Seller played dumb.

Exactly.

The police won't be interested nor will the DMV. The seller will play dumb and unless you have proof that he was the person who rolled back the mileage or have proof that he knew about it, you'll be out of luck and so will the police and DMV.

I'd get as much money back as possible and walk away.

[911monty]

I will offer to approach with a cool head and see where it goes. Sometimes honest mistakes happen. My son in law had a Volkswagen Jetta he attempted to trade in to Carmax, they reported back speedometer error. In the end turned out that at a service the odometer was entered incorrectly. Even though the error was obvious it was NEVER worked out.

[Carlisabadman986]

If the seller was guilty of intentionally doing something nefarious why would he initiate contact to buy the car back?

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by Carlisabadman986

If the seller was guilty of intentionally doing something nefarious why would he initiate contact to buy the car back?

In some states with odometer tampering laws, sometimes the seller has no choice but to buy the car back or go to jail. DMV's are really cracking down on this offense., which is commercial fraud.

[CoBeerToad]

If that's the case, tell the seller they can buy the car back at whatever price you want. They have to pay it or go to jail, so they can't refuse.

[Giller]

Originally Posted by CoBeerToad

If that's the case, tell the seller they can buy the car back at whatever price you want. They have to pay it or go to jail, so they can't refuse.

The seller only has to buy the car back at the price he paid. That's what JFP just said - "buy the car back". I do think the seller could be liable for some of the additional costs the buyer incured - but that might differ state to state.

The seller could then go back to who sold him the car for those costs and any other costs he outlaid since he purchased it.

Much of this comes down to who changed and knew about the change to the odometer. It could go back a number of owners.

Weird though that the DMV knew of the issue but CarFax didn't? They get much of their info from the DMV so not sure what happened there - unless no one bothered to get the CarFax for this vehicle.

[JayG]

Here's a question, how did they even roll back the odometer?
Replace the cluster?
Are you sure it was not a data entry error?

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by Giller

The seller only has to buy the car back at the price he paid. That's what JFP just said - "buy the car back". I do think the seller could be liable for some of the additional costs the buyer incured - but that might differ state to state.

The seller could then go back to who sold him the car for those costs and any other costs he outlaid since he purchased it.

Much of this comes down to who changed and knew about the change to the odometer. It could go back a number of owners.

Weird though that the DMV knew of the issue but CarFax didn't? They get much of their info from the DMV so not sure what happened there - unless no one bothered to get the CarFax for this vehicle.

Many states, mine included, require you state the car's mileage at every registration renewal. This goes into the DMV data base, and when the car is sold, the title also has to have the mileage on it at time of sale. Match the two records, and you have a discrepancy.

Carfax has always been somewhat questionable on how current (and accurate) their information actually is. I had a family member total a car that was scrapped by the insurer, and three years later it was still listed on Carfax as a low mileage one owner car with no accident history.

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by JayG

Here's a question, how did they even roll back the odometer?
Replace the cluster?
Are you sure it was not a data entry error?

Not all cars have digital odometers, the Honda (depending upon the model year) could still be a mechanical unit.

[KevinH1990]

Thanks for the comments. My brother got his money back including compensation for the money he paid for sales tax, title transfer and replacing a lost key.

He never really got a straight answer from the seller about why this happened. The car was a 2004 Accord EX. The seller said that he bought it with 74,000 on the odometer and sold it to my brother with 96,000. Carfax showed that it was auctioned about 4 months ago. The odometer read 170,000 then.

I'm not sure why the seller decided to come clean. My brother went to the Virginia DMV and they didn't seem to know what was going on.

[bwillia080261]

Originally Posted by JayG

Here's a question, how did they even roll back the odometer?
Replace the cluster?
Are you sure it was not a data entry error?

Probably replaced the cluster. I have had three different clusters on my Boxster and therefore three different odometer readings. I'll probably never sell it so it doesn't matter but if I do I will have to disclose all of that.

[Jager]

I am curious about the taxes... Would this be considered a non-sale and therefore DMV refunds the taxes or would the original owner have to pay taxes again as another transaction??

[KevinH1990]

Originally Posted by JFP in PA

Not all cars have digital odometers, the Honda (depending upon the model year) could still be a mechanical unit.

It looks like it is digital:




I think it may be possible to reprogram mileage on a digital cluster. I know that on the Boxster, the mileage is stored on an EPROM (Erasable Programmable Memory) chip in the cluster. It's encrypted, but I would not be surprised if a good programmer figured out the encryption.

I don't know if the original seller received a refund on the taxes he reimbursed to my brother. At that point, my brother figured it was the seller's problem.

[Chuck W.]

When I bought the 996 cluster for the Boxster I paid $90, including return shipping, to have the odometer reset to my Boxster's mileage. There are a lot of vendors on Google that preform such services. No documentation needed. I documented well with photos and paperwork.