98 Boxster base or 06 base?

[kjin]

Hi Guys,
I'm new here but was using the forum to do researches for my first Porsche. Thank you for all the wonderful posts and i have learned a lot.

So I was original aiming for a post 2005 model but then came across this 98' 986 and I test drove it and it seemed great. It doesn't feel like a 17 year car. The car has 2 owners was mainly garaged and the 2nd owner only puts 1000 miles on it every year so right now it only has 41k miles on it. But the service was not done regularly(not every year) since the car wasn't driven much. And the tire was not changed since the 2nd owner take ownership(10 years).

There's also a 2006 base that I will test drive tonight which has only 24k miles on it, 2 owners as well( the first owner put 7k on it). The car recently had 60k mile service done and new tires and brakes. But I wouldn't have time to do a PPI since the owner wants the deal done fast.

The 06 base is $13k more than the 98' one.

Which one do you think would be better? I will only drive the car on the weekend and plan to keep it for a long time.

Thanks!


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[brjak]

First thing I would say is the buyer usually controls the pace of the sale. If a PPI is something you want. Tell him the sale is contingent on the PPI. I'm sure there is not a bidding war going on for the car.
There will be plenty of people to to give opinions. How much is the 98?
With the 98 there is the IMS failure issue. I think it was corrected by 06.

[kjin]

The 98' is $10k while the 06' is $23k


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[Pominoz]

Originally Posted by kjin

The 98' is $10k while the 06' is $23k


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No PPI, no sale should be your answer to the 06 seller. Don't buy a Porsche unless you've had it properly checked, it could be a very expensive mistake if you don't.
The fact the he is trying to rush you should make you wary.
The 06 can still have an IMS failure although it's supposed to be less likely.
Don't be in a rush, take your time and make sure you're getting the car you want.

[kjin]

Originally Posted by Pominoz

No PPI, no sale should be your answer to the 06 seller. Don't buy a Porsche unless you've had it properly checked, it could be a very expensive mistake if you don't.

The fact the he is trying to rush you should make you wary.

The 06 can still have an IMS failure although it's supposed to be less likely.

Don't be in a rush, take your time and make sure you're getting the car you want.

Yea I am a little worried about buying a car without PPI as well. The owner said he is trading in the car so he needs to get it out of contract by this week if selling privately.


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[kk2002s]

Two completely different cars, two big $$ differences. Apple and Oranges decision.
05 much more refined but that costs.
If you can afford the $$ difference get newer car but must be based on PPI.
The seller, a Porsche owner, should know that this is standard for most buyers of these types of cars
If the 05 is a good car, you'll be starting out a long term ownership with a newer car

[kjin]

Thank you all for the replies! I just contacted the owner of 06' and insisted on a PPI.


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[Fintro11]

I would go with the 06

[RandallNeighbour]

kjin, that's a good move. I wish I'd seen this thread earlier to urge you NOT to buy the 98. So many improvements were made each model year the car was on the road that it's silly to buy an older one if you can afford a newer one.

Even if the 98 had all the maintenance done and was garage kept and had super low mileage, it still has 17 year old components and gaskets on it and these early 986's were not recognized for their long-lasting and inexpensive replacement parts, that's for sure!

Plus, the 06 will have two very important things you may not realize you'll get: a glove box and a rear glass window in the convertible top. The lack of interior storage is crazy on the early models and that plastic window is a pain in the arse to get out and fold manually each time the top is lowered, not to mention the fear of cracking the plastic when it's cold.

[Perfectlap]

Without the PPI you have no way of knowing the fair value of the car.
The mechanic will tell you everything that is wrong with the car, which you should point out to the seller when you make an offer accordingly. If he balks, move on. There is no shortage of 987's for sale. There is no shortage of 986 for sale. There is no shortage of any water-cooled Porsches. It's 100% a buyer's market. Sometimes people new to Porsches fall in love with the Porsche they test drove. Makes no sense, there are thousands of others like it.

by the way, engine wise, the 987.1 a.k.a. pre 2009 (or 2005-2008) is not all that different from a 2000-2004 Boxster engine. One our resident engine experts called the 987.1 engine a glorified version of the 986 engine. Boxsters from 2009 to the present (987.2 and 981) are the whole new ball game engine wise from Porsche. If you can swing a 2009 or newer financially, you'll be a lot better off than buying a low mileage 987.1 unless you score a screaming deal on a 987.1. But Most likely a low mileage 987.1 seller will not be looking to sell cheap, which makes sense for him but not really for you.

If I were giving advice to potential first time buyer I would say go for a S model from 2000-2002, preferably one that has already had the IMS issues addressed with an upgraded bearing (extra points for a longer lasting dual row bearing over the more common single row in 2000-2004 cars), or dig deep and get a 2009 or newer. The 2000-2002 S cars have five chain 3.2 engines like the 96-99 2.5 but come with some stronger cylinder walls and are less prone to certain lifter failures like the 2003-2004 (three chain). Basically 2000-2002 S engines check a lot of boxes you want while giving you a good discount on price over the 987.1 that has a fairly similar engine at the end of the day. I don't think a more Audi sedan like interior and revised exterior styling is worth paying a lot more imho, a bit more just not a lot more.

Bottom line, these cars get nearly all of their value from the engine, and will eventually depreciate down to just the replacement cost of just the engine itself. Don't pay up a lot for options or special features. Eventually depreciation will erase the value of these things entirely. It's simply a case of too many cars for sale now. And lean towards cars from climates that have year round mild weather. Extreme heat or cold, wears out parts much faster.

[CoBeerToad]

The most important question is what color are these cars?

[brjak]

Originally Posted by RandallNeighbour

Plus, the 06 will have two very important things you may not realize you'll get: a glove box and a rear glass window in the convertible top. The lack of interior storage is crazy on the early models and that plastic window is a pain in the arse to get out and fold manually each time the top is lowered, not to mention the fear of cracking the plastic when it's cold.

I agree the lack of interior storage can drive you nuts, But, whats this "get out every time you lower the roof" I have a 97, Never have I had to "fold" or get out of the car.
the 06 is by far the superior car. But, if you are buying a car to drive on weekends. a 97,98 is a great option. The IMS failure is minimal at around 1% as opposed to the 99-05 at roughly 8%.

THe 98 is a great option providing maintenance has been kept up. You can't beat a 10K price for a Porsche.. leaves you plenty of room/money to play with.

[kjin]

98' is silver/red while '06 is silver/cocoa


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[Perfectlap]

Originally Posted by brjak

The IMS failure is minimal at around 1% as opposed to the 99-05 at roughly 8%.

To the OP, and not to be a jerk brjak, but these numbers though often cited for 2000-2004, are as reliable as ENRON accounting. 96-99 IMS bearings are dual row and fail a lot less often than the single row found in most 00-04 cars. That's all you can really say with any certainty. Those who try to put a number on the number of single row (2000-20004) failures are doing with with woefully incomplete data, and not to mention that the probability of failure has in great part to do with the maintenance and driving habits of 00-04 owners. No two 00-04 Boxsters (still on their original factory bearings) were subjected to the same treatment, especially when a car has changed ownership numerous times. Also, since most 00-04 Boxsters did not have their IMS bearings replaced when the clutch was replaced as well, the likelihood that we will see an even greater number of IMS failures, for both single and dual row cars 96-04 is great.
Given enough time, neglect and mileage, even a dual row bearing will fail and with more potential for destruction than a single row.

Point being that if you have a 00-04 car, you should get the IMS replaced while the oil is still free of metal debris and not make the mistake of procrastinating if long-term ownership is the plan. If you have a 96-99 car, you should not pass up the opportunity when the clutch has to come out.
Dual row does not mean ever-lasting row.

[dghii]

I guess that my problem with trying to give an opinion is that your price point is so wide that even though both cars are Boxsters, they're 'apples and oranges' apart.

I don't know if you're looking at the car as a daily driver or weekend warrior. Both are great cars...I've had two 98's that were not low mileage but were still good solid cars. I'm sure the 06 would be a very nice car as well.

Sorry for not being any help!

[cardiffgiant]

I was all for the 06 until I read that the owner was uncooperative on the PPI. Personally, I'd tell him that I wouldn't buy without one and to give you a call if he changes his mind.

He might want a fast sale... but he isn't likely to get it.

I looked at a 99 and the owner didn't want to do a PPI. I moved on and ended up with a better car. He also said he wanted a quick sale and had other buyers lined up... but his was on the market for months after I bought mine.

[stephen wilson]

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

To the OP, and not to be a jerk brjak, but these numbers though often cited for 2000-2004, are as reliable as ENRON accounting. 96-99 IMS bearings are dual row and fail a lot less often than the single row found in most 00-04 cars. That's all you can really say with any certainty. Those who try to put a number on the number of single row (2000-20004) failures are doing with with woefully incomplete data, and not to mention that the probability of failure has in great part to do with the maintenance and driving habits of 00-04 owners. No two 00-04 Boxsters (still on their original factory bearings) were subjected to the same treatment, especially when a car has changed ownership numerous times. Also, since most 00-04 Boxsters did not have their IMS bearings replaced when the clutch was replaced as well, the likelihood that we will see an even greater number of IMS failures, for both single and dual row cars 96-04 is great.
Given enough time, neglect and mileage, even a dual row bearing will fail and with more potential for destruction than a single row.

Point being that if you have a 00-04 car, you should get the IMS replaced while the oil is still free of metal debris and not make the mistake of procrastinating if long-term ownership is the plan. If you have a 96-99 car, you should not pass up the opportunity when the clutch has to come out.
Dual row does not mean ever-lasting row.

Even Jake has mentioned that the big bearing '06+ has a greatly lower failure rate on the street. They have a higher failure rate when tracked.

[brjak]

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

To the OP, and not to be a jerk brjak, but these numbers though often cited for 2000-2004, are as reliable as ENRON accounting. 96-99 IMS bearings are dual row and fail a lot less often than the single row found in most 00-04 cars. That's all you can really say with any certainty. Those who try to put a number on the number of single row (2000-20004) failures are doing with with woefully incomplete data, and not to mention that the probability of failure has in great part to do with the maintenance and driving habits of 00-04 owners. No two 00-04 Boxsters (still on their original factory bearings) were subjected to the same treatment, especially when a car has changed ownership numerous times. Also, since most 00-04 Boxsters did not have their IMS bearings replaced when the clutch was replaced as well, the likelihood that we will see an even greater number of IMS failures, for both single and dual row cars 96-04 is great.
Given enough time, neglect and mileage, even a dual row bearing will fail and with more potential for destruction than a single row.

Point being that if you have a 00-04 car, you should get the IMS replaced while the oil is still free of metal debris and not make the mistake of procrastinating if long-term ownership is the plan. If you have a 96-99 car, you should not pass up the opportunity when the clutch has to come out.
Dual row does not mean ever-lasting row.

Please see the 8th paragraph below.

IMS 101

[Perfectlap]

Originally Posted by brjak

Please see the 8th paragraph below.

IMS 101

^These figures cited during the class action litigation are not representative of the total number of IMS failures, nor do the plaintiffs' lawyers, or Porsche the defendant, claim so.

The plaintiffs lawyers in that case were using figures that Porsche produced during discovery of documented failures as part of their engine replacement program. Porsche did not replace a majority of the engines that have gone down due to the IMSB failing and Porsche did not claim that they were alerted to all of the failures that occurred during the scope of that ligation. Nor is there any certain basis to assume that IMS failures continued at those rates after Porsche reported those figures internally.


All that we know for sure, is that single row failures for 2000-2004 are far worse than 1996-1999 Boxsters. When the internet forums throw numbers out there for the purposes of guesstimating how likely one is to experience a failure in a single row bearing, we are not dealing with reliable data or reliable conclusions.

[Perfectlap]

Originally Posted by stephen wilson

Even Jake has mentioned that the big bearing '06+ has a greatly lower failure rate on the street. They have a higher failure rate when tracked.

Yes the "perma-bearing" that Porsche began using after 2004 addressed durability. But the problem there is that it can't be serviced anymore without splitting the engine open, an expense that does not make financial sense for most. Which makes me wonder if there aren't derivative issues (since the root cause was not addressed), in the long-term of a non-serviceable bearing that may surface before the engine needs to be rebuilt.