Skip the IMS??
 

its been 2 months. Got trans case back. All put together. I can wait a couple more weeks and see if he can come to my shop and fit that in or just bag it until next clutch. 134k on clock.

I'd like to reassemble and get on the damn road. :mad:

T

Do it now. You're most of the way there with the tranny out.

Why not have the peace of mind?

Nah they never go bad....


:rolleyes:

When I had my trans out at 140k I was in the same situation. I passed on the IMS, and now 4 years later the car has 173k. 'Course, my car is a 2000 with dual row IMS.
Roll the dice...

Just was at my mechanics this week and he had just done three single row IMS bearings. Every single one was in the beginning stages of failure.

I'd change it, with a Nachi high temp full seal bearing, especially since yours is a single row. This bearing is a maintenance item even if Porsche didn't designate it as one, and when it fails, well we all know that story! ;)

When I was young I believed that the outcome would be favorable. Now that I am older I plan on every possible outcome and I am never disappointed. Wait a few weeks for the part and then there is nothing left to chance.

Am i missing something? the dual row/early boxsters have a less than 1% failure rate. With an 8% for single row IMS.

If someone came to you and said you have a 99+% chance nothing will go wrong, would you not save your money? and spend elsewhere?

Sorry, if I am alone feeling this way, but other items in the car probably have a higher failure rate. Yes everything will fail eventually.

Agreed. If my trans was out I would change it.

1. that figure is wrong in that an unknown number of failures were left out.
(I never rely on incomplete data, aka the Enron rule)
2. an actual figure that is accurate is impossible to nail down.


The IMSB failure rate is like guessing heads or tails based on the last 20 flips.
What the others experience has nothing to do with the current condition of your factory original IMSB.

An IMSB that was once 1% can jump to 70% due to host of maintenance and driving variables that changed abruptly. When those figures you cite were calculated the single row bearing fleet was still relatively low mileage as group. The IMSB is not a static issue. Every 2nd, 3rd, 4th and possibly 5th owner maintained potentially different driving and maintenance habits. As the cars get cheaper less attention is given to the cars. Why is this relevant? Because a sealed bearing with no direct oil feeding it is on a timer. That timer speeds up if oil starvation or contamination is not mitigated during mileage intervals that are too long for the quality of oil used.

This is probably the simplest of all the possible engine failures to avoid. Or maybe replacing the water pump every 4-5 years. But the former can only be done when the trans is down which makes doing it a no-brainer.

The worst part of this repair is pulling the trans and Flywheel, replace it now

My car is at 70K miles
 

I think I can detect a little clutch slippage sometimes, I will probably tackle a clutch change in the next two years (only drive the car 2K miles a year) and at that point I will for sure do the IMS bearing....I have time to pick the best method between now and then

Aside from money, what about the IMS replacement is going to delay you getting on the road? You said it would be weeks before the transmission would be reinstalled. You have time to determine which bearing is needed, what your replacement choice should be, order it, obtain the tools, study the instructions and do it.

~4 years ago, with single row engines that were up to 11 years old, the failure rate Porsche knew about was around 1% per year with surely more failing that were junked or repaired outside Porsche's knowledge. It is now ~4 years later than when those statistics were first presented to the courts. The average Boxster has gone through another owner in that time. And more miles and more unknown or undone maintenance. So the probability of a single row failure is much higher now but then again the probability of failure for all the parts is also higher.

So it comes down to are you willing to spend to fix this potential problem when all the other potential problems may, taken together, have a higher and increasing chance of taking out the engine before the IMS does?

As these cars become almost cheaper to replace than repair, this becomes a more difficult decision.

Good luck in whatever you decide.

"Well punk, do you feel lucky? Do you...?" :cool:

Personally, I think it's cheap insurance to install a new super- bearing (ceramic).

True the numbers are not static. But the information comes directly from the manufacture of the solution. IMS 101

I don't know the values through out the country, I am speaking of my car. 97, 78000miles. New to me. Value 11,000$(CDN). this car is mint with everything working appropriately. Now, average replacement cost is 1500-2000 up here in Canada.

So spend 20% the value of the car on item that is advertised at a 1% failure rate. Even if the failure rate increased 10 fold. The question is spend 20% value of the car for an item that has over a 90% success rate.

Yes I know its only matter of time before the item fails. But, that statement can be made for every single item on that car. We just focus on the IMS.

His car is worth almost twice what yours is and he can install the bearing himself. The vehicle's already apart- all he has to do is buy the bearing for something like $4-500(?). The car is easier to sell with it replaced and may be worth more as well. Also, few parts will cause destruction of a very expensive engine when and if it fails greatly increasing the risk of leaving the old one in.

I think there are some things to clarify in this post -

1) I would be SHOCKED if a '97 could fetch anything north of $8k USD, but perhaps that is neither here nor there

2) $1500 - $2000: Isn't that a price if the trany is still IN the car? It is quite a bit cheaper if it is out, no?

3) If your IMS fails, the value of your car goes to just about $0. By putting in an IMS, for 20% of the value of the car, you ensure you can keep it a $11k (or whatever the correct price is). That is what we mean by insurance...

We all sort of have a big revolver with one bullet that we are spinning...at some point it will go boom.

For $400 i might do it. I'm just pointing out. there is a lot of hysteria surrounding the IMS situation. Most of it valid. But with that said. I am talking about the more robust dual row IMS. I would not buy a 01-05 Boxster or 911 because of that issue. but a 97 0r 98. I would roll the dice everytime. again, value of the car has to be taken into account. Just, don't get tunnel vision on the IMS and failure rates of said part.

Other parts can go boom too and there goes your engine and your investment in any IMS. A simple accident in a car this old will take it down too.

So by adding 20% to its cost basis, you add how much to the probability that it will still be around in a few years? Do you increase the probability more than by changing the water pump?

Even at 10%, if the IMSs fail at 2% a year, is that still a good investment?

My point is that when these were $25k cars, the investment made obvious sense. But now? Does it still?

Maybe emotionally or for peace of mind.

Value of car is not reduced to zero. You could part the car out, or sell as a rolling chassis. Probably get 6-7kCDN. in essence without IMs and engine failure. value-7K. 11K car with 2K invested in an IMS replacement. Car value 11K. SO really the swing is roughly 3K on the car. Now saying that we are talking about a 97 Base boxster.

If you're in the position as Timco is currently in, it's a no-brainer to me. The trans is out and he has a person to do the work. All he has to do is be patient.

For me, it's a $4,000 cost having the Tiptronic trans, I can't justify it.

The pelican parts bearing is cheaper if money is an issue.

Money not an issue. My question is. Would you spend 20% of the value of your car for a 1% failure rate? Your car has 99% chance of never suffering this failure.

Having said that, if the engine and tranny are out, and I have free labour, I would probably spend a couple hundred dollars on parts.

Unless I missed something this is a 2004 Boxster with a single row 6204 bearing. I bought the Pelican bearing and am running the nut and bolt in my box. Far superior to stock. I did not favor the NSK bearing that came with the kit as it was not fully sealed. I sourced a Nachi 6204-2NSE a fully sealed high temp bearing with Viton seals instead of Buna-N used in the NSK bearing. Or, you might try an S6204 ceramic open bearing, they run about $80 instead of $10, make sure you get Si3N4 (silicon nitride) with a steel race. Search for 6204 bearing and bearing retail sites will come up with what you need for a few bucks. The OEM bearing was nothing special so it's easily replaced with the same or better.

Even on the 97 Base, you should now consider it a maintenance item. Not an end all fix that will make the car last forever, or a reason to immediately stop driving and head to your nearest LN authorized repair shop. Clutch, suspension, tires, etc will all wear out. Most likely you will not let them go until there is a catastrophic failure.
Do the same for your IMS. When the clutch is replaced replace the bearing. Not that big an add-on if the other work is already being done.
I pulled the bearing on two '01 2.7s with about 125K miles. Both were intact dual row, but had lost the grease and had foul smelling oil within the IMS tube. It was just a matter of time (and probably not long) until they started started wearing through the finish on the bearings.

6-7?? For an old roller up here? No way. There just isn't much of a market here in Canada, and if you want to sell it down south, well, there are lots available, so supply vs. demand just isn't there. I'm guessing you don't have collision insurance on your car too? Or any life insurance?
IMS fix is really just insurance - odds are you will never ever use it, but it can be comforting to have. Especially for a car that sits, like most in Canada do over the winter.

D@mn... Now I want to pull out the Pelican bearing I put in and swap it for one of those. Oh well, maybe after I put on 20K miles or so and change out all the chain ramps. :D

Seriously thinking of picking up a spare 2.7 and just rotate it through my 2 cars. Swap one out each year or two, do maintenance and swap it into the next car due.

Ceramic bearing
 

Someone mentioned this, I thought these were considered sub-standard now ??

They are now compared to the IMS Solution from flat6innovations.

Making a few leaps and assumptions. But, I will answer regardless, I have collision insurance, because it was an extra 45$ per year. So for 5 years of ownership 2.5% value of the car. If I could have any major item IMS, etc switched for a valuation of 2.5% I'd doit. but not 20%.

Life insurance is another thing- I don't have any debt, So really not a huge need for life insurance. Life insurance is a financial tool. after that i save money and invest it. Far too many people have way too much insurance. They spend far too much money on premiums. Thus never getting far ahead. When investing those premiums could yield a far larger return.
Via work family receives 2 years salary. So I guess I have a little insurance.
IMO- life insurance is the same as buying lottery tickets, or changing IMS:). I roll the dice I don't need it. But, build for a successful future. If you have a solid foundation to work off of. These other items are unnecessary.

Only buy items I have cash for. Most people will spend far more money in interest payments than life insurance would cover. I made it a life mission to only buy what I can afford. than work hard to pay off debt. Which I did. I will add I'm a simple guy who never made 6 figures in his life. But, always knew how to invest.

I recall reading it somewhere but I don't recall what years are affected (ie: single row vs. double row) with the IMS failure tendency. I own a beautiful 98 Boxster w/78,000 miles.

So does my year have a single or double row IMS?

Also, what's the average life of a clutch? I'm an "easy" driver/shifter and as far as I can tell the clutch on mine is working fine......just curious.

Thanks,
R

Only 100% accurate way to know is visual inspection but your year tends to be double Row
Clutch life is all over the place with so many variables that effect it's life. My clutch is also at 76k miles and it works great. Mid-pedal bite point, no slippage, no smell.
I'm thinking this coming winter may be my time to just bite the bullet, Clutch, IMSB (LN ceramic) RMS.
Car should be some where near 85k miles at that point
+1 on Don't skip IMSB replace now.
Seems like there is time and your trans is out of the way.
I don't understand all this risk management. The part is accessible now, it's a few hundred $$, a little piece of mind and it's definitely a known good afternoon drive killer

I have a 2000 Boxster S 6spd. Does anyone know what bearing I have for that year? Does it go by Vin#? Also, I saw this bearing (97 05 Porsche 911 996 Boxster 986 IMS Roller Bearing Upgrade New Made in Germany | eBay) on ebay. Says it's made in Germany and that shops in Germany use this a lot as a replacement. Any thoughts? Thanks for your help.

The new standard for maintaining our cars?

Oh what we have fallen to...

I didn't realize you had a dual row, but even a dual row will not last forever. Actually when they do fail they cause a lot more damage. I would not ignore replacing the IMS during a clutch job however.

Your mileage sounds pretty good, if the owners changed the oil at least annually you are probably in the clear until your clutch job.

As far as not wanting to spend X% of the car's value. While that sort of thinking sounds rational, it's still a $65K car as far as upkeep. The value of the car is almost irrelevant to the car's needs. If you intend to drive this car in the long-term, or drive it every day, you need to meet the car's needs. Otherwise what's the point of driving a world class sports car that will only have repairs done that represent only a minor part of its purchase price? The x% of car's value mentality really is for Hondas and Chevys.
If buying a $65K car that is out of warranty, requires expensive parts and specialized labor for ~$12-15K was good financial reasoning everyone would have a used Boxster or 996. A used Porsche is more like having swimsuit model for a girlfriend. If she stays around for long, your wallet will be a whole lot lighter.

The answers are no, no, not with a 10 foot pole. The long answer is there are years with mixed production of bearings and engine installation was not recorded by bearing design. The ebay question is more of a personal choice. I did not even look at the ad.

Not me
 

I plan on doing mine myself when I change the clutch out. This will be a huge undertaking and I do not plan on skimping out on a cheap bearing. I love the dual row replacement for my single row in my 2001S but no individual sales on these so I have a several months to find the best an individual can get.

This is the best you can get, period.

Porsche 911 Boxster Intermediate Shaft Bearing Update Kit IMS Solution 996 986 | eBay

http://lnengineering.com/products/ims/ims-solution-for-single-row-ims-my00-05.html


.

I will go for the lower one, I didn't think they sold those to individuals....good news.

Definitely go for the IMS solution. Best choice on the market, hands down. You'll want to pick this up quick as it's not supposed to be available to the general public. ;)