An All-Electric Porsche?

[thstone]

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

The Palm Pilot and Handsrping Visor was the modern smartphone. Ahead of its time because wireless networks for this kind of thinking weren't even ready yet.

Hmm. I think that the PP was a technical dead end and mostly an example of how something clever can become a fad. But forcing buyers to learn a new "language" was never going to work. Wireless network or not, it was doomed.



The smartphone was the result of "lessons learned" from the failure of the PP (and many others) and has proven to be a runaway success.

Remember at one point, Palm was valued at $1.5B. The question is whether Tesla represents the PalmPilot or the Smartphone?

[Perfectlap]

Originally Posted by thstone

Hmm. I think that the PP was a technical dead end and mostly an example of how something clever can become a fad. But forcing buyers to learn a new "language" was never going to work. Wireless network or not, it was doomed.



The smartphone was the result of "lessons learned" from the failure of the PP (and many others) and has proven to be a runaway success.

Remember at one point, Palm was valued at $1.5B. The question is whether Tesla represents the PalmPilot or the Smartphone?

If memory serves you weren't actually forced to learn "grafiti" to type out messages. There was the option of the on-screen keyboard. Interestingly enough I'm doing the exact same thing 15 years late with my Samsung Galaxy Note. When typing messages I can write out the letters in a little box that has amazingly accurate text recognition or I can just I can peck at the keyboard with the S-pen (way more accurate for me than my finger) -- just like I did with the PP stylus. Today, the Samsung Note was the #1 selling smartphone in tech crazy South Korea at time of the Note 3 launch ant the Note 4 has done even better. A "Palm" sized device was such a success that Apple was forced to offer the iPhone 6 Plus to have something to compete with the Galaxy Note.

Without high speed wireless, any mobile smart device was going to have limited use and people would eventually lose interest. Once high speed wireless (at least 1 MBPS) brought you YouTube, NetFlix, audio streaming on Pandora/Spotify/etc, Skype/face time, WhatsApp/FB/Instagram, bla, bla, a mobile smart device would become indispensable to non-techy people. Had all those services been available to the PP on at least 3G-fast network, Palm would without question have partnered with a Sony, LG, Sharp to provide high resolution touch screens capable of playing back video and color web browsing. The PP didn't fail so much as it was ahead of its time or had bad timing depending on how choose to look at it. The iPhone's small size for nearly 7 years really didn't fill the void that the PP absolutely started. The PP was certainly the first mobile smart device that got non "techy" people to get out their wallet. Fast forward to 2014. Apple finally offers a palm sized phone in addition to their largest regular iPhone ever and the biggest quarter in corporate history follows.

As far as Tesla, their customers love the cars much the way iPhone early adopters loved their devices. That doesn't happen very often. That's usually a sign that someone has refined something to the point where others have to take notice and offer similar products or be left way behind. One minute it was the old thing, the next it's a whole new ball game. Tesla has quiet a head start.

[Pominoz]

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

Electric is in favor with consumers, or anyone who favors energy costs that are more predictable and less prone to volatile swings and cartel mischief. Most any modern economy can make electricity cheaply which makes the issue of whether it is cleaner irrelevant. Nobody is trying to save the planet in earnest, but nearly all want to drive out the uncertainty in costs from energy sources that largely based on speculative demand (and always will be).
If you look at the history of business, once a more predictable option emerges in a feasible way, it takes over. Look at these guys drilling oil out of the ground, one year they're popping champagne the next year they have more rigs sitting dormant than at any time in decades. Business likes certainty. And it just so happens that single largest economy in the world is the Saudi Arabia of electricity-making coal. On the one hand you have gigafactories making batteries and on the other side you have all that coal. Sooner or later consumers and business will figure it out. This cheap oil isn't going to last.

Batteries don't create energy, they just store it, inefficiently. Wait and see what will happen to electricity costs, if we ditch petrol and run all the world vehicles on electricity.

[Giller]

Originally Posted by Pominoz

Batteries don't create energy, they just store it, inefficiently. Wait and see what will happen to electricity costs, if we ditch petrol and run all the world vehicles on electricity.

Who knows what will happen? What we do know is that oil and gas is finite and eventually will run out. Still lots left for sure - but the costs of getting it will get higher and higher.
Batteries and electric vehicles are the future and with all the R/D will only get better and better, until the next technology comes along.

[Perfectlap]

Originally Posted by Pominoz

Batteries don't create energy, they just store it, inefficiently. Wait and see what will happen to electricity costs, if we ditch petrol and run all the world vehicles on electricity.

yes we know all about inefficiency via the internal combustion engine where nearly 70% of the energy that is paid for can not be used by the motorist. Every year trillions of dollars go right down the tubes that could have gone into the economy in ways that lifts demand for all sectors of the economy instead of just the few who do well when the oil markets spike.

As far as electricity costs, necessity is the mother of invention. When the free market senses a ramped up need for cheap electric power, those wishing to profit like a Bill Gates from filling that void waste no time in entering the race to deliver it. So the saying should be profit is the mother of invention.

In the end we may not end up saving any money at all vs. the current system of relying so heavily on a finite and inefficient commodity but we however will no longer be dependent on the wildly speculative demand of the oil markets that can erase a small business profit from unexpectedly high fuel costs in a matter of weeks. The oil market completely ignores falling oil consumption, excess supply one year and pays attention the next only to ignore it all over again. What business or household wants to continue depending on that kind of instability?
Volatility is great for hedge funds but households and small business not so much.

[Nine8Six]

Originally Posted by Pominoz

Batteries don't create energy, they just store it, inefficiently. Wait and see what will happen to electricity costs, if we ditch petrol and run all the world vehicles on electricity.

LOL not only it stores energy inefficiently, it is also unsustainable. Go figure.... billions and billions thrown at it with a blind eye. The only reason 'why' that I can think of is ROI. Sad to see in all honesty

Keep dreaming! The traditional computer will have more transistors than a human has neurons in its brain way before the energy crisis is half sorted. Keep spending your R&D funds dearest world powers, its entertaining!

[stephen wilson]

Originally Posted by Giller

Who knows what will happen? What we do know is that oil and gas is finite and eventually will run out. Still lots left for sure - but the costs of getting it will get higher and higher.
Batteries and electric vehicles are the future and with all the R/D will only get better and better, until the next technology comes along.

Umm, what do you think generates electricity? In the US, primarily Fossil Fuels. Plus, you're adding losses from power transmission and storage. Electric cars are not some magic bullet to solve all our ills.

[Giller]

Originally Posted by stephen wilson

Umm, what do you think generates electricity? In the US, primarily Fossil Fuels. Plus, you're adding losses from power transmission and storage. Electric cars are not some magic bullet to solve all our ills.

Yes, right now, primarily fossil fuels. But wind power is growing and water power has been around for some time. Solar is still finding a way to be cost effective, but full of promise. There is a TON of potential in renewable energy sources. Unfortunately, the big money is still in oil and gas (okay for my stock portfolio, bad for the environment).

[tomonomics]

Moving to electric cars shifts the energy requirements away from oil and towards other resources, as well as where those resources are consumed. Oil is only burned for 1% of our electric...however coal/natural gas generate almost 70%. Do we really want to triple our coal consumption so that we can have 'cleaner' cars?

Also, getting all that power to the local level is not easy, and our current grid could not support even a modest increase in plug-in vehicles. Your average US house might only draw 2 to 3 kilowatts at peak usage. The new Tesla fast charger draws up to 20kw. Put two or three electric vehicles in one neighborhood, and you will need some new power lines in your backyards. That's a lot of expensive infrastructure cost that will be included in all of our utility bills. And while solar power is the big thing right now, you'll never have enough solar power to recharge a car each night. Unless you live in AZ, have a few acres of solar panels, and only drive 20 miles a day. That technology is just too far off in regards to the huge power demands of an EV.

I am a big proponent of clean/hybrid vehicles - a diesel/electric hybrid would be my ideal daily driver. But a large, short-term increase in plug-in cars just doesn't make sense right now on many levels. Unless you start raising the gas taxes, and put that money to good use in renewable energy R/D and mass transit...

[Nine8Six]

^ Oopsy!

We have a 18GW dam here that is (unofficially) near half of its capacity already. Must be all the 'Smart' Phones and Palm Pilots around charging every nights Pray god that this battery powered transport thing never hits China, I'd really love to see my favorite Chinese fish on my menu at least for a few more years LOL

In a meantime, here's Dorothy working on my next FLAT-ONE Porsche engine. Runs for 99 years without refueling. Cheap, compact, 485HP minimum


(source: Lockheed Martin announces it's working on a compact fusion reactor)

batteries... nano or whatever, geez feels like hearing the 1960's space travel dreams all over again LOL

[tomonomics]

I hope that's not a cheap Harbor Freight multi-meter!!!!! lol you might only get 350HP when they are done. (385HP for the Cayman version)



(Sorry, I couldn't help cross-referencing three different threads).

[Nine8Six]

LOL. Anything yellow in the 'measuring' tool are stopped at US Customs at the request of Fluke Corp (in the news lately). So it has to be the real deal

More worried about Dodo's ballistic eyewear. Hope those are genuine 3M and nuclear blast-proof lol

[particlewave]

Originally Posted by Nine8Six;

batteries... nano or whatever, geez feels like hearing the 1960's space travel dreams all over again LOL

That 1960's space travel thing worked out pretty well for us Americans.

You're so scared that it's making you angry!

[Nine8Six]

Originally Posted by particlewave

That 1960's space travel thing worked out pretty well for us Americans.

You're so scared that it's making you angry!

That's because you've been using the Canadian Arm thingy to screw your bolts everywhere in space

And yes I'm scared. Not shy to admit it. Had an e-l-e-c-t-r-i-c car passing right in front me at a red light the other day. A freakin Tesla... couldn't believe it (in China).

IT SOUNDED LIKE A F'N WHEELCHAIR

Scared?! I was terrified, petrified. Not sure I am ready for this dramatic change of car 'culture' - you know what I mean by that. Was the first time for me (sorry guys, isolated here). Think you can convert me please?

no offence, I do realize the environment benefits and I am all up for that. Just not ready, need to b itch, blame policy makers... who else, you?

YOU, that's right.... you are the guy developing this technology stuff, you certainly participate anyway. Forgot about that

[particlewave]

Naw, I threw my hat in the ring, bro.

I'm retired now. Moving to Colorado to become a hippie
Population #'s worry me more than anything to do with electrons and hydrocarbons.

[Perfectlap]

Originally Posted by tomonomics

Oil is only burned for 1% of our electric...however coal/natural gas generate almost 70%. Do we really want to triple our coal consumption so that we can have 'cleaner' cars?

We are headed there regardless of whether we consume crude or not to run our vehicles. Simple consequence of population growth, increasing standards of living and the inherently high degree of uncertainty in nuclear power from an investment standpoint -- one miscalculation and that nuclear plant is a financial loser before it's even operational. Which basically means coal power will see a tremendous increase in the decades to come.

The question is do you want to continue relying exclusively on a gasoline powered cars that are subject to the whims of speculative oil demand or do you want to finally have greater diversity in our vehicle fleet? I'm not sure why its always argued that electric vehicles will never get to the level where they can replace the gas-burning car because that's not at all the point. If the consumer can wake up one day and say "both of these cars cost $25K, let me consider my needs to determine which is better for me" then we'll create greater diversity in our domestic economy and less reliance on the volatile and uncertain nature of the oil market.

As far as a greener planet, good luck with that mother Earth. The cleanest energy is rarely the cheapest.