Blown engine. This sucks!
 

Well, in December of last year, on my 37th birthday, I was finally in a place in life that I could afford a Porsche. Found one liked, a Black on Black 02 Base. Had 61k miles on it. Price was right, and it was in good shape. It was at a dealership that took the crap Scion I had to trade, and financed me on it. Within 60 miles the check engine light went on and it ran like crap. I bought it with no warranty. However, the dealer agreed to repair it. After some issues, they took it to a good European shop and got it fixed. MAF sensor had failed. Over the next several months I drove it, and enjoyed it. However, I couldn't help being afraid something expensive would break. It's a fun toy, not a commuter car. For that, I had a company vehicle. At the end of June, after 10 years, my company took my company vehicle. Suddenly, the Boxster was being driven 110 miles daily. 2 weeks in, I was halfway to work and suddenly it jumped. Had half as much power, and the check engine light went on. I pulled over, and it died. I nursed it home. About halfway home the check engine light began to flash. Should've just had it towed. Got it home and pulled the code. P0343. Cam position sensor fault. I figured the problem was electrical. I wasn't at a point where I had the money to take it to a shop. So it sat. I found a new job with a company car, and got to a point where I could take it to a shop. My wife thought it'd be a $5000 repair. Nonsense I said, it's an electrical issue. $1500 maybe. Well, the same shop who fixed the MAF called me within a few hours of getting it. No compression on cylinder 2, and that was just the 1st one he checked because it was throwing a misfire code on that cylinder. He told me they weren't equipped to do an engine swap, but reccomened a shop that was. I had it towed there. That shop had a 2 week waiting list. So patiently I waited. It had now been 2 months since the car broke. 2 weeks later he calls me. Lots of metal in the oil, car needs a new engine. Wonderful. The car has 64900 miles on it. It's going to cost 14.5k to replace the engine. Bad thing is, with the trade in, I still owe about 15k ok it.

So, when it's all said and done, I'll have a $30000 986 that's worth about 8.5. I am very disappointed and dismayed.

Ouch! Sounds like you could have done some things differently to have minimized this risk.
But what's done is done. If I were in your shoes I would park the car and keep an eye out for a used motor. No point wrecking your credit. You'll have one expensive Porsche once its running again but the math on owning these cars long-term is always horrible. You either lose $40k in depreciation or you end up spending as much on repairs and maintenance, upgrades as you paid for the car in the first place.

qualityporscheparts on eBay does have take-out engines that may be a fit for what you need. Not endorsing, just suggesting to take a look.

A bad day for sure.

Find a same year replacement motor at a dismantler for $3-5k, have the IMS and chain guides replaced and get it installed. Maybe $6-8k and you are back in business. Things could be worse.

That's really crappy man. I feel for ya. I just got to a similar place in life where I could stretch it and get a Porsche - and now I too do live with a similar fear.

Good lesson for all new buyers - get a PPI done before purchase and check/change the oil often. Everything I've read says consistent oil changes will give you good notice to hopefully help avoid impending doom. (not foolproof of course).

Well, the 14.5 gets me a rebuilt by Porsche engine with a 3 year 36000 mile warranty. I had the shop order it. Just very dismayed. Partially by the short lived engine, and more so by the fact that I can't do it myself. I've built lots of VW aircooled engines. I hate that the boxster is so unserviceable.

Sorry for your loss. Like the others are saying though, it can be fixed for a lot less than your current quote. I am still very new to these, but before buying learned that I would have to budget $2-$3K a year for care and feeding. $14.5k is well beyond that.
I'm guessing that you are not in a position to DIY, but that is a possibility if you have some aptitude, time, and space. There are some good guides, and plenty of people on the forums to help with questions. Do you have any local enthusiasts that may lend a hand? I would if I was local.

Just to make myself feel better. The rebuilt engine also includes a new LN IMS bearing and clutch and flywheel. In fact, the shop says only my AC compressor and throttle body will be reused, the rest will be new or rebuilt. Still though, it's a lot of money. It does seem on par with what I've read others have spent for the same thing.

Ummmmmmmmmmm......., I have a problem here. All factory reman engines coming out of Porsche since 2005 carry the oversized non serviceable IMS bearing that requires a total engine tear down to replace. Exactly where is your shop getting this engine from??

Man that sucks. I also just purchased a 2000 Type S with only 55,000 miles on it and really hope I don't have those kind of issues with it.

Reman engine through Porsche won't have the LN IMS bearing. Best option may be to get a good used engine, do the LN IMS retrofit, RMS, AOS, and other easily-accessible-while-out parts and save about 8-10k.

Remember - these forums are here for people to help people, so most of the posts you read are asking for help fixing something. With tens of thousands of these cars still rolling happy and healthy - it's still a small percentage that suffer any kind of catastrophic damage such as this. And there are things you can do to help manage the catastrophic damage. Regular maintenance is key.

If you search through the forums - you will find a nice thread about the 100k club - lots of those cars have had zero issues other than routine maintenance.

Theres a lot better ways to spend 14.5k.

If it was me I'd call Jake Raby and for the same money end up with a much more bullet proof upgraded HP engine than just going with the same thing you had fail on you already.

Just saying that if you want a better outcome you have to change the path, not repeat it by going down that same path again with a reman standard Porsche Engine.

Or

Sell your car as a roller for 5K and buy another 9.5K Boxster and roll the dice again.

or

Buy a 5K engine with ~50k miles on it and cut your losses.
(14.5K will get you 3 rolls of the dice with this option so your odds are better)

No cheap options some are clearly better than the others in my opinion.

This just highlights the truism: You can buy a 9-year old $70,000 car for the price of a new Kia - but the day it needs to go in the shop it's still a $70,000 car.

First, I feel for your pain and the expense you're going through.

As a guy who built his own air cooled VW engines I feel there are way more similarities than most Porsche fanatics would care to admit.

I looked through the engine build sequence on flatsix's page and was impressed with the design differences (the crank running in a bearing carrier instead of right on the case halves), but in the end it's a horizontally opposed engine with two more cylinders and the cams (plural thank you) out where they belong. You just have to move the expected prices over one decimal point.

That is the truth right there.

The VW engines I built were hopped up and you had to be just as meticulous as Jake discusses on his 986 build or you were just throwing your money away. If you slap a type 1 together you will get what you deserve in short order.

Engine comes out from underneath just like a bug. There isn't tons of reach from the top but there isn't much to be done up there anyway. There is access from the front side which no air cooled VW had, and pretty much everything else it comes down getting at it from underneath.

As for the rest of the car outside of the longblock, I'm finding it to not be any more exotic or difficult to work on than any other car I've owned (and I've owned plenty of cars and worked on them all).

And in three years that KIA is still crap -- maybe crappier and about worthless
the Boxster is still giving you PermaGrin.

Treat it like a $70k car with the PM to match -- but find a reasonable Indy to maintain it for you -- or educate yourself.

In 10 years -- you could still be enjoying the
Boxster -- while others are on their 3rd KIA :-)

Mike

14.5K gets you another 02 base. IDK that price seems pretty steep.

Good point, plus supposedly only short blocks are available from Porsche now.
When Porsche supplied complete engines with accessories it was a 2 year warranty if installed at a authorized Porsche dealer. Be sure to see what you are getting & what the warranty is, in writing!

Call Sunset Porsche and get a quote -- they'll be pretty close to cheapest if
you go the factory route (not that I recommend that) but some folks
will pay for that comfort.

Otherwise do what others have suggested and search the reputable dismantlers.

I just used my last 2.7L -- or I would have had a heck of an engine for you for 2/3 that cost.

Mike

Why do you owe 15k on a base 02 Boxster?

You realize that someone earlier this year was selling a 3.6 swapped Boxster S for that much. This forum has Boxster S's going for 12k for an ad price without any bargaining.

That's a really bad situation that you're in. If you have a car to drive around, I would either sell it as a rolling shell and work to pay off debt, or save up and DIY. 14.5k is ridiculous for OEM. To put it in perspective, my 3.8 swap costs about that much, and I'm getting 350whp.

And if the engine in the Kia blows in 3 years....they'll fix it free with their 10 yr / 100,000 mile warranty, but that's not my point.

It's not about the Kia, it's about the fact that expensive cars are ALWAYS expensive to fix, no matter their age. You can't go into it thinking that because you paid Kia prices you're going to have Kia repair bills.

You can...if you know how to troubleshoot and have time to fix it yourself...the price of parts is (mostly) a negligible difference

Hmmn, This is a classic issue for that particular engine. I don't believe that you need an engine, I believe that you need a repair.

No compression on one cylinder and those faults could mean a munched cam lobe or lifter (both super common with that M code engine) or even a broken valve spring. Any of these will lead to metal suspended in the oil, but in the hands of a specialist that's resurrected engines for over a decade, it may not be terminal. At the same time, not calling the tow truck could have lead to driving the car to death.

BTW- The factory engine program is gone forever- there are no more completes, just short blocks that are being quoted at 18-20K. That won't help you, because a short block uses your old heads, which is probably where your damage lies.

Get another opinion, get several and go invasive. Assume nothing, quantify everything.

Do this right, or you'll be doing it again.

Your engine code is synonymous with failed cam lobes on the outboard intake valve for cylinder #1, I've seen dozens of these fail, BUT out of all those we've saved all of them but one. At 64K, its worth seeing the extent of collateral damage before throwing in the towel. No one else will tell you this- they only know how to swap things out and at the end of the day, saving an engine probably doesn't mean more to them than their paycheck.

You are 100% correct Jake. That's where my frustration comes from. No one is willing to take the thing apart and repair it. It's been to two shops now.

I honestly thought of having you build an engine but I don't have that kind of money. To be clear, the engine is going to be about 10k, 1500 for a clutch and flywheel, and $2500 in labor.

The real problem is not many shops are willing to dive into an M96 engine.

You need the right tools, you need the know how, and because of the cost of parts and the unknowns of what you find with the original engine -- it isn't always a cheaper (short term) option.

Jakes the pinnacle, there are others out there, but very few folks have the luxury
of not having the additional expense of shipping the vehicle as well.

Mike

This is the situation most of us lose sleep over. It's the scenario we keep playing through our heads driving down the road.

So we all have a true soft spot for you and your situation

I have a year left on my extended Power train warranty. After that I'm truly flying solo and I maybe I'm flying solo even with it. Would only know if something happens

I would be in the same place if it let go with no warranty.
I have a loan so either I get another loan to fix the engine, part it out or sit it in the garage until I could afford to fix it on my own

And for those who tends to bash Jack as a domes day guy about engine issues - He is the one bring a ray of light and hope into this conversation

I got my 03 S for just a little more than that too.

Sops never became proficient with these engines because they were too cheap to replace in the old days.. That is, except for us. Thats why we are where we are, because of foresight and forethought, coupled to pioneering the components and assembly before we "needed" to. Today I have done the same thing with the 9a1 engine family.

All that said, a blown engine and a broken engine are two different things. To someone thats not proficient with the engine internally, they'd rather do brake jobs and oil changes than to tear into your engine. Why? Because there's more money in it and the car leaves the same day, and there's less liability. I don't know what its like for a car to arrive and drive the same day- everything we see is broken. Broken badly and typically given up on by everyone thats touched it before.

West Virginia is what we call "local" shipping. I have cars here from California, and Vancouver Canada as well as about 28 more places across N. America.

Yes, I always bring the real news. Call it doom and gloom, or call it reality. Most modern humans can't handle the truth. They don't want to hear that everything mechanical will fail at some point, unless it wears out first.

We have two sides of the house here at Flat 6, we don't just carry out or reconstructions, but we also do these types of repairs on lower mileage engines that prove themselves to be solid candidates for repair. Not everything has a good prognosis, but you have to give it a shot before just buying something else.

Well that is not completely accurate IMHO. We had no compression on Cylinder 5 and as I had many other cars to drive we decided to tear it down at home. Without having EVER rebuilt an engine. Not even a lawn mower engine.

Car was back on the road six months later, running like a champ. Never ran that good. New IMS, new clutch, new water pump, rings, etc as we were already there.

The only tool I really had to buy was the kit for the timing. Everything else I had at home.

So yes, it is an engine. It may sound complex. But at the end of the day it IS an ENGINE. Built by Germans and NOT Aliens.

And with some GREAT guides out there like 986fix, most people can do it if they have the time and patience.

CR

For sure Jake is the guy and the more knowledgeable one out there on this matter. If I were a new owner, first thing for sure is to take care of the IMS. And then make it a routine, changing it every 25,000 to 35,000 miles with the clutch.

We changed ours at 56,000 miles and it was in good shape as far as I could see. Next time clutch is done, new IMS is going in for sure.

CR

No, this engine is not just another engine. One reason why Cros probably had a better outcome than most is because he didn't have any other engine building experience to relate to this engine.

Thats where people screw up.. They believe this is just another engine, and no it wasn't built by Aliens, it was built by German Accountants.

People treating this engine like any other, is what keeps my reconstruction backlog at 10-13 months and its been that way since 2007 on the M96 side of the house...

Whatever it is, I am living proof it can be rebuilt at home by someone that had never attempted anything similar. :D
As I said mine has never been better, running much stronger and with zero issues. We are keeping a close eye on it of course. So far, 3,000 miles later it is all 100%.

CR

Your experience should be inspirational for many here and elsewhere.

As I had stated, your lack of experience has proven beneficial in reaching your goal.

More and more people requested my engine classes at an enthusiast level, so the first one is scheduled for January 2015. What makes these engines easier to assemble for a first timer is knowing the order of assembly.

The About to be released Faultless wrist pin/ clip installation tool omits the need for Porsche special tools for this portion of assembly and you don't need a bore scope. Load up a clip and a pin and it's magic from there. The installation of the pins and clips has also been the stumbling block with these engines, especially for heavily experienced pros.

That is a fact, and something most vehicle enthusiasts don't seem to understand. I often read "why did these engineers make this decision?"

I work for a company that makes machines an order of magnitude more complex and expensive than any Porsche.

The sad truth is that every good idea put forth to improve our product has to be approved by managers and has to "buy its way on" to the vehicle. The number of ideas that die or are replaced by chicken **************** solutions is staggering.

Not to say that we don't make a good product because we do. If engineers ran the cash registers our product would be fantastic - and we'd be bankrupt.

"As I hurtled through space, one thought kept crossing my mind - every part of this rocket was supplied by the lowest bidder."

John Glenn

Well, the car is done. Rebuilt engine, LN IMS, "nickies", new clutch, flywheel, rebuilt starter, alternator, new sensors all the way around, tack welded the rattle in the exhaust heat shield, replaced the hacked up harness, new battery, and a few other small thing. It drives and sounds like a new car. Test drove it today. Going back tomorrow to bring it home. Below is the pile of old engine.

Wow
 

At the end of the day, that is one sweet ride.

Ok, so I've had the car back for a couple months now, and finally got word on what killed the engine. It jumped timing. Killed a rod bearing and bent some valves. What are the likely causes of such a failure?

Stretched timing chain is my guess.

So what are you going to do? Replace the motor? Get an different car?

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A rebuilt engine was installed. Had it back a few months. Had the front windshield replaced, replaced both front speakers, replaced the subs, added rear speakers, and polished the yellow out of the headlights.

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