Change Oil Pan Baffle - Good Idea or Not?
 

So I run across a fancy oil baffle that's supposed to be an improvement on the X51 design. I'm in the process of installing it and I see the factory baffle. Not sure I like the new one better than the original. The original kind of looks like a cofferdam. Thought the new one would be a good idea since I use my CSS for DEs. Am I overthinking this? Should I install the new one?

1st pic is original, 2nd is new one.
http://986forum.com/forums/uploads01...1404515727.jpg
http://986forum.com/forums/uploads01...1404515750.jpg

Good idea. Very good idea.

The new one looks like the EBS oil baffle. I use one of these in my Spec Boxster for racing.

Here is a link to a few pic's from the install (scroll down the page a bit):
http://986forum.com/forums/boxster-racing-forum/30625-oil-starvation-2.html

+1 very good idea I use to see pressure drops and now it on 70 - 80 PSI all the time unless RPMs are down

thstone, thx for the link. Great info. I'll move forward this morning.

I'll look closer but on initial inspection it appeared the lower rubber edge on the wings causes the baffle to be too high for the mounting plates (gap between). Do I just tighten the bolts down or trim the rubber for a perfect fit?

How long should the gasket cure before putting in oil and running? Didn't see this on the tiny instructions on the gasket tube.

Get the deep sump with extended baffles... there are at least one company makes these.

Plastic baffles are pretty crappy IMO, designed by bean counters trying to save a few dollar per engine!!

The Loctite 5900 technical data sheet says to cure for 7 days (click on link and scroll to right hand column on second page). But that seems like a LONG time so I waited 24 hrs before filling with oil. Your choice on how long to wait. :)

http://krayden.com/tds/henk_loctite_5900_tds.pdf

http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/...psd06f283e.jpg

I have got that exact same baffle, the EBS one, I was able to use the pictures from thstone's thread to help me install it. One thing I would do differently if I ever take that sump pan cover off again, and that is to use the Dreibond. It comes in a tube with a little handle that you turn to force the sealant out. Getting that Loctite 5900 out of the tube and onto the baffle was easily the hardest part of the job for me.

Pelican parts sells it, but oddly I couldn't find it even though I just spent 10 minutes searching their site for it. I bought a tube of it when I thought I was going to have to go back into that area but ended up not needing to.

One big thing that helped me is I took one of the sump cover bolts to lowe's and bought three long bolts with the same thread pattern, and then had then cut the heads off using the chain link cutter, and used them as guides when putting the cover back on.

Good luck!

Steve

Found here on Pelican Parts: 1988 Porsche 944 Turbo Coupe - Engine Miscellaneous - Page 2

This page also lists Dreibond.

I can't explain why the Loctite 5900 it not on the 986 Boxster pages! :confused:

The practice fitment was a bit scary - had to favor the driver's side to get it to slip in. It then slid back into alignment w/ the bolt holes. Had an 3/16" gap between the pan cover and block but it seemed to snug down when I tightened the bolts. This was a practice run w/ no loctite. I didn't go full tight w/ the bolts.

Hope it's not bending the pan cover or jamming something at the top of the baffle. Think I'm going to stop for lunch before I complete the job.

I used the LN deep sump kit with mine but I also had to trim a small amount at the top edge around the one return defoamer

As far as the 5900 I've already put oil pan on and filled it in less than an hour with no leakage.

I had to favor one side at first, I seem to recall it was the passenger side but being upside down and under the car I can't remember. Once I got it started, then it leveled out. Then like you, there was a tiny gap that firmed right up once I tightened up the bolts. I think I let mine cure overnight but I'm not 100% sure, it may have been longer.

I took the baffle off the pan cover and slid it up in the block to see what was the issue. Several places need some modifying. Taking my time grinding but feel it will fit properly after I'm done.

When I'm done I'll take some pics of the offending areas.

I went with the EBS baffle kit and the BK extension kit both sourced through EBS

Came with loctite 5900.

First thing I did when I picked up my S to be a track based car.

Less than 2 hours taking my time
No issues what so ever.

Mike

Got the fitment where I like it now. Pics below. The tiny red circles show where I've done my "adjusting".

The new baffle basically seals up the sides to prevent oil from excaping the central area where the orig had some openings in the back and didn't go all the way to the back of the engine. This would be where the slopping would occur - out the front and back openings.

So this will solve the sloshing issue, BUT there aren't many openings to the two side areas. It doesn't appear to this virgin engine builder that much oil would get into those area. It looks like the return oil is dumped into the center section. If it fills up faster than it can seep into the outsides, what happens? Or if the seal is so good, can you run out of oil in the center section if you're driving in a straigtht line (so the side flaps don't open)? Sorry for being so anal, but this is a big deal with major ramifications, not some air filter swap. Obviously must work because we have live testimonials, just wondering how it works.

This pic shows the passenger side clearance issue that had to be corrected.
http://986forum.com/forums/uploads01...1404665082.jpg

Here is the driver's side. Originally the baffle was stopped by the bolt head.
http://986forum.com/forums/uploads01...1404665139.jpg

This pic shows the baffle level with the engine block.
http://986forum.com/forums/uploads01...1404665193.jpg

This pic shows the baffle and all the areas I adjusted. I did it in 3 different steps but I probably ended up taking off the 3/16 that was stopping me before. I didn't do any grinding on the top of the wings, just removed the rubber seal. I may take the bottom rubbers off the wings before I do my final assembly.
http://986forum.com/forums/uploads01...1404665328.jpg

Folks, I installed the EBS baffle this evening, and I'm a little uneasy about the way it fit.... so I did a search and found this thread.
When I put it up in, it fit nearly tight on the rear, but had a 3/8" gap on the front. I pressed (hard) and it moved up in, but sprung back. So I put the bolts in and pulled it up evenly with them.

Now I see this thread.

Should i drop it and trim it? What could i have bent? Or is this correct? Should i leave it be?

Thanks in advance.

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No, it supposed to be a tight fit. The point of the rubber seals is to do just that, seal. It takes some wiggling but fits just fine. This is a pretty old thread EBS may have modified the design a bit. I installed mine about 9 months ago.

I had to trim one corner in mine I think it was near a bolt on the one defoamer.

Geof3 is probably correct in suggesting there have been design changes in the last 4 yrs. I just did not feel comfortable with forcing the sump cover on with that much deformation.

I have not had any issues with the sump cover leaking in the 4 yrs since putting the EBS baffle in. Since I can't remember what I had for lunch yesterday, there's no way of knowing how long I waited to refill with oil, but chances are it was 1 day not 7.

I was prepping for a 2 day DE at Kansas Speedway later that month. Ended up going there the next yr too. No issues with oil starvation.

Thanks to all the forum members who talked me off the ledge. Great bunch of guys.

Mine didn’t require any deformation to fit. But, it definitely required being installed straight up, right on the money. Off even a little stopped it completely. Then compressing the rubber seals was all it needed, and that wasn’t much.

Change Oil Pan Baffle - Good Idea or Not?
 

I received my LN/BRS sump a couple of days ago and when dry fitting the baffle to the windage tray I found the holes are half a hole off and to get them lined up I will really have to force the baffle in place. The issue stems from the fact the sealing edge with the radius does not have the same radius as the windage tray.

I’m not really happy with the fitment and LN says I am good to go and just force it to line up. Hopefully I don’t have clearance issues at other places after doing so.

Pic of the baffle/windage hole misalignment.

https://i.ibb.co/HLvfFhV/EB6185-FE-9...153941-AE8.jpg

Oh, that’s pretty poor measuring there. I can’t imagine there would be much, if any, variation to the width of those holes. I’d probably just ream one side out a bit to fit.

Yeah.... but that kinda sucks, don't it? When you pay a premium price to buy a "premium" product from the company that's supposedly the best (that's what all the zealots would have us believe), you shouldn't have to "ream" anything, should you?

LN strikes again.

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Wait..... can I say that, without this thread getting deleted?

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That thought crossed my mind 4 yrs ago when I had to do so much customizing to my EBS baffle. But I was glad I did it as I wanted it to fit precisely on it's own, not something that was shoved in there and slammed in place by a deformed sump plate.

Absolutely agree. The difference in my mind being that I bought the EBS unit 'cuz it was the cheapest one I could find that looked like it would work. I sort of expect some of that when I buy that way. Hahaha


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The horror! :eek:

After trying the EBS “deep” version baffle along with the .5qt sump extension, I decided to switch to the FVD .6qt bespoke oil pan and their x51 style baffle. The FVD oil exchange windows are smaller than the EBS, use rubber flaps and are positioned higher in the baffle. The FDV edge seals are rubber wipes rather than the EBS wraparound rubber. No clue whether the design differences are good, bad or a wash but a friend of mine has been running the FVD in HPDE for several seasons with no problems (in a 996). The FVD was a perfect fit out of the box.

Like others on this thread I had to make minor mods to the upper and rubber edges of the EBS to make it fit to my satisfaction. Additionally I was glad to eliminate the double row of flange sealant. I applied the SI5900 using a regular caulk gun with no problems.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...d6ba8a1200.jpg

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That is pretty slick! :cheers:

That FVD is a sweet looking unit.

Always interested in the flappers and how they're made. Factory and FVD use rubber doors, the EBS uses a metal hinged door. Rubber ages and will crack. Not good. The metal hinge seems could get debris in it and freeze open. Not good. It's probably my paranoid nature with something this important, but each method appears to have potential issues.

However, still no issues with my EBS after 4.5 yrs.

I agree, good points all. One of the doors on my EBS unit was binding on the edge of the mounting bracket when tilted certain directions. I was able to grind a little off the edge of the door to fix this. When fitted into the engine that same door was binding a little at its hinge due to a slight torque on the unit due to the fit. I scoped the EBS after installation and an oil fill/drain (luckily it was the drivers side flap which I could see with the scope). The door was still binding a little so I decided to go with the FVD rather than continue with fitting mods on the EBS.

At 109,000 miles / 15 years the oil flaps, mounting tabs and baffle still looked like new on my original pan and baffle. No deformation or cracks of the flaps, flaps still very pliable. I realize this is not the case for everyone however. I think the EBS would have been fine if I had went ahead and resolved the minor binding issue. I did confirm with Rhonda at FVD that their rubber flap compound was spec’d for this app.

that silicone application is WAY WAY WAY too thick on the left side of the pic. You likely have a bunch of that silicone floating around now or will shortly.

The right side is much closer to what you are looking for.

also no need to silicone on the outside of the bolt holes since the pan gets sealed on the lip to the inside of the holes

thnx QC. Because it’s on the left side I should be able to lift the flap with a pick and check with the scope to see how much went to the inside. It will not take much to reseal it if necessary (I haven’t put oil in in yet).

Scoped the pan and was surprised at the size of the silicone bead on the inside versus the outside. After I pulled the pan I saw what was going on. The FVD pan flange is much wider than the engine case edge. For this reason, it’s hard to know where to lay down a (very) narrow bead of flange sealant on the pan flange.

I can’t work on the car again before Monday but at that time I’ll clean everything up and attempt to lay a very narrow bead of sealant down centered directly on the engine case. That way I’ll ensure alignment between the engine case and the pan flange. Then I’ll try bolt everything up before the bead drops.

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Can you put the silicone on the engine rather than the sump? That way you know it will be sealed when the sump goes back on.

That’s my next move. Don’t see any reason I should have a problem if I get the bead ‘just right’ :-)

[QUOTE=Oldcarguy;589087]That’s my next move. Don’t see any reason I should have a problem if I get the bead ‘just right’ :-)[/QUOTE



It seals easily with just about any name brand sealant, no need to use Drie Bond. Permatex European is what I use.

Thnx ByP. I had plenty of SI5900 left so I took the time to clean up the surfaces and reseal it this morn. Used an extremely narrow bead going to the inside of all bolt holes (didn’t surround the bolt holes) on the engine casing. It held fine, plenty of time to fit the pan. Nominal to no seepage to the outside when torqued down (7 ft/lb). Didn’t have a chance to scope it but I’ll do it Monday morn. I think I’ll be in good shape now (if it doesn’t leak).

With this mod, how is the oil level checked? Does the same oil dip stick work for accurate measurement? How about the digital gauge on the instrument panel?

I have run many deep sumps in every thing from air cooled VWs to big block 455 Olds. The dipstick stays the same. if you changed the mark or extended the dipstick to compensate that would defeat the purpose of the deep sump. :cheers:

also the same for the digital gauge. Both work as before.