Michelin Pilot Sport AS/3

[Paul]

That test was not done on wet ice, the difference in all 3 tests would be much less based on my experience growing up in the mountains of PA.

[Joe B]

You people are all missing my point (except maybe Timco and Mark_T). Read my original post again. I never said that The Michelin AS/3s were as good as snow tires, or that everyone should use them. I simply pointed out that I've been pleasantly surprised with them, and they have suited my needs well. Everyone knows dedicated snow tires work better on ice and snow !

[Perfectlap]

^ nobody said you did.

while you may be an experienced driver, most are not. The results you've had with an all season tire over substantial snow rely heavily on your competency as a driver. Driving over snow with the wrong tread pattern is a skill set most simply do not have.
All season tires, on a RWD car, in more than 2" of snow and plenty of dry ice, under hands of only average driving ability are a bad winter mix.

[Timco]

Originally Posted by Joe B

You people are all missing my point (except maybe Timco and Mark_T). Read my original post again. I never said that The Michelin AS/3s were as good as snow tires, or that everyone should use them. I simply pointed out that I've been pleasantly surprised with them, and they have suited my needs well. Everyone knows dedicated snow tires work better on ice and snow !

And it really depends on your definition of DD. I drive my Box all winter, but on snow days it's the truck. So frozen road, or wet road, I'm in the Box and it does far better with these than the Sumis but will never be the 4x4 nor do I expect it to be. I have no doubt a snow tire will indeed work better in powder, but snow over ice or straight slush really is what it is, and short of a bigger vehicle most tires will act the same. My opinion is these give you the best balance of year round performance without the extremes of performance tires or snow tires.

Plus, compared to my Sumis, these are like driving on soft clouds, super smooth and quiet and zero road noise. Very responsive.

[Timco]

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

^ nobody said you did.

while you may be an experienced driver, most are not. The results you've had with an all season tire over substantial snow rely heavily on your competency as a driver. Driving over snow with the wrong tread pattern is a skill set most simply do not have.
All season tires, on a RWD car, in more than 2" of snow and plenty of dry ice, under hands of only average driving ability are a bad winter mix.

And that's why I just drive the truck on bad winter days. Regardless of tire, that car is not a snow day car. Sure, it's still reliable but once you've driven a 4x4 on snow days, you realize how much safer and reliable it is if you find a gutter, have to swerve, go up any slight incline, drive down a hill, or anything other than flat and plowed.

[Joe B]

Originally Posted by Timco

And it really depends on your definition of DD. I drive my Box all winter, but on snow days it's the truck. So frozen road, or wet road, I'm in the Box and it does far better with these than the Sumis but will never be the 4x4 nor do I expect it to be. I have no doubt a snow tire will indeed work better in powder, but snow over ice or straight slush really is what it is, and short of a bigger vehicle most tires will act the same. My opinion is these give you the best balance of year round performance without the extremes of performance tires or snow tires.

Plus, compared to my Sumis, these are like driving on soft clouds, super smooth and quiet and zero road noise. Very responsive.

+1, yeah, what he said !

[Perfectlap]

I'll just add one more point because I see this done so often when people discuss non-winter tire performance on snow and ice. People here often say "they're doing well". Or one forum member even posted that he was able to hold a straight line on summer rubber in snow on his drive home as if that was some sort of accomplishment.
This sort of feedback isn't really saying much at all about the merits of non-winter tires in wintery conditions. A tire proves itself in conditions that require it to punch above its weight when things don't go to plan and they need to take evasive action or stop suddenly. For instance, when some dimwit on all season-tires misses a corner and ends up in the oncoming lane straight at you. Or when the car in front of you locks up and you have to dart quickly to left or right, or perhaps you're boxed in and have no choice but slam into the wide pedal. That's when a non-winter tire proves itself. You are only as safe as the upper limit of your tire. Believing that a tire is performing well when you are NOT really testing its limits in any way is simply overstating the effectiveness of the tire.
I'm glad to hear you guys have back up vehicles, but those of us who dont' have one should not be driving a RWD car on all season tires in any kind of snow that is accumulating beyond an inch or in temps well below freezing. This simply is not safe for you or the other motorists. Leave the car at home or switch over to winters in the early part of the month you typically see snow. It's simple logic, the better an all season tire performs in winter the worse its going to do in the summer. The better it performs in summer, the worse its going to perform at the exact momment you need it to pull you out of danger.

[BYprodriver]

As Bobby Ore told us in Stunt Driving School: "Never drive beyond your ability or the ability of your equipment!"

As I tell people often: How can you compare your brand new tires to 4+ year old tires you considered worthless enough to disgard?

[Timco]

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

I'll just add one more point because I see this done so often when people discuss non-winter tire performance on snow and ice. People here often say "they're doing well". Or one forum member even posted that he was able to hold a straight line on summer rubber in snow on his drive home as if that was some sort of accomplishment.
This sort of feedback isn't really saying much at all about the merits of non-winter tires in wintery conditions. A tire proves itself in conditions that require it to punch above its weight when things don't go to plan and they need to take evasive action or stop suddenly. For instance, when some dimwit on all season-tires misses a corner and ends up in the oncoming lane straight at you. Or when the car in front of you locks up and you have to dart quickly to left or right, or perhaps you're boxed in and have no choice but slam into the wide pedal. That's when a non-winter tire proves itself. You are only as safe as the upper limit of your tire. Believing that a tire is performing well when you are NOT really testing its limits in any way is simply overstating the effectiveness of the tire.
I'm glad to hear you guys have back up vehicles, but those of us who dont' have one should not be driving a RWD car on all season tires in any kind of snow that is accumulating beyond an inch or in temps well below freezing. This simply is not safe for you or the other motorists. Leave the car at home or switch over to winters in the early part of the month you typically see snow. It's simple logic, the better an all season tire performs in winter the worse its going to do in the summer. The better it performs in summer, the worse its going to perform at the exact momment you need it to pull you out of danger.

I'll just add one more point because I see this done so often when people discuss non-winter tire performance on snow and ice. People here often say "they're doing well". Or one forum member even posted that he was able to hold a straight line on summer rubber in snow on his drive home as if that was some sort of accomplishment.

Let's start here. This thread was about the Michelin AS/3 tires. I am pretty sure AS stands for All Season, which includes winter. It's a year round balance, not meant for extremes either way.

"The Pilot Sport A/S 3 tire is designed to provide Michelin's highest level of all-season performance, emphasizing dry road handling and wet road grip while retaining all-season traction for occasional light snow."

As to the forum member who made the claim you mention, what if he was driving in a sane manner and leaving plenty of room between him and the car in front, and driving defensively at an appropriate speed for conditions? This statement discounts the driver's responsibility to drive as per conditions, and no tire on earth can overcome that. It all begins with the driver, and tires are a factor, but the blame for any weather related accident or loss of traction accident remains with the driver exceeding their car's ability to handle conditions regardless of tire.

I'm glad to hear you guys have back up vehicles, but those of us who dont' have one should not be driving a RWD car on all season tires in any kind of snow that is accumulating beyond an inch or in temps well below freezing. This simply is not safe for you or the other motorists. Leave the car at home or switch over to winters in the early part of the month you typically see snow. It's simple logic, the better an all season tire performs in winter the worse its going to do in the summer. The better it performs in summer, the worse its going to perform at the exact momment you need it to pull you out of danger.

From their website:

"Pilot Sport A/S 3 tires feature Michelin’s Helio compound made with sunflower oil combined with their Extreme Silica Technology to increase traction at low temperatures and on wet roads."

What do we consider to be "low temps" and "well below freezing"? I feel pretty safe with these tires at 10˚ or less, and do not think I am putting anyone at risk when driving within my car's abilities as per conditions, period. I feel like I made an informed choice, based on mfg data, and recommendations from my tire dist, and internet reading. Again, if the road is frozen solid, ALL tires will be less effective.

Ask Paul Walker about the right tire for conditions....and how driver error contributes to an (any) accident where grip loss is a factor, not the unforeseen.

No one is saying a snow tire is not specifically designed to be better in dead cold winter or in snow or on ice, but I am saying my tire is plenty safe and safer than a performance tire when driven as per conditions. Maybe a Boxster is not the best choice of car, period, if you live in such a climate and do not have a different vehicle for winter / snow driving?

[woodsman]

I HEREBY DECLARE; ALL CITIZENS SHALL HEREBY SELL THERE CURRENT VEHICLES AND PURCHASE A NEW ALL WHEEL DRIVE VOLVO WAGON FOR WINTER MONTH'S TRANSPORT.

I have spoken. That is all for now. Proceed with caution my fearful flock.

[Mart]

Originally Posted by woodsman

I HEREBY DECLARE; ALL CITIZENS SHALL HEREBY SELL THERE CURRENT VEHICLES AND PURCHASE A NEW ALL WHEEL DRIVE VOLVO WAGON FOR WINTER MONTH'S TRANSPORT.

I have spoken. That is all for now. Proceed with caution my fearful flock.

Aye, by any chance do they also supply half tracks?

[Mark_T]

Best we can do...

[woodsman]

for the man who has everything?
Nash Metropoliton Customized- If only we got enough snow here...