OH NO!! Metal shavings in oil filter :(|
 

So I just now got a call from the work shop (I dropped my 2000 Boxster off for a small service this morning) and they said that they'd forund lots of metal shavings in the oil filter. I told them to call me, if they would find this, as I have read on these forums amongst other places that metal shavings is the first sign of an IMS failure.

SO: WHat the f@£k to do? Is there just one option? Which is to do the IMS bearing upgrade? Because the cheapest place I found quoted me $3300 for JUST the job :eek:

Have a great weekend you guys!

What to do, what to do......

#1 - Do you have confidence in the workshop inspecting the filter?? how long since it was changed ??
#2 - Go and look at the offending filter - determine how bad it is.
#3 - Is the metal in the filter ferrous (magnetic) or aluminium /white metal debris - this could be important.
#4 - If the filter debris is exessive, have the workshop remove the sump cover plate and inspect the inside - if the filter is full of metal, there could be more in the sump which could indicate where the failure occurred ....

10.100 miles / 16.300 km (and 27 months) since last oilchange.

Note: I was the one who asked the mechanic to call me if he found some metal shavings in the filter.

I will post pics of the filter tonight.

What is the difference between aluminium / white etc shavings? What is from where?

Q: can a metal expert tell what sort of metal this is, and where it comes from? And in that way, tell me if the IMS failure is around the corner?

If the metal debris is non magnetic, there's a good chance that the big end /main bearings of the crankshaft have been compromised....
Run a magnet over the metal in the filter - if it stick to the magnet, its ferrous, which could be debris from the IMS ball bearing, timing chains / sprockets etc.
Even after 10,000 miles, there should be no metal (or plastic from the guide rails) in the filter - you need to determin the source of the failure asap.

If it were me, I would follow Steve's advice on checking the metal bits out then drop the sump pan to check. Secondly, start changing your oil more often (3,000 to 5,000 mile intervals). Lastly, $3300 is high for this job but your options in Norway may be limited vs. the states.

Post up high resolution pics of the debris found in the filter.

I will update you guys after I retrieve the car in 3 hours. I'll check with a magnet also in addition top posting high res pics.

PS: I have owned this Boxster since july 4.th and couldn\t change the oil before now, all shops have been closed for the summer.

2 years and 10K miles? Wow!

Wow what??

On the outside chance that you can get 3-4 ounces of oil, you can send a sample to Blackstone Laboratories for an oil analysis. This will tell you exactly what's in your oil.

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I'll probably find a place a lttle close to me, but yes, finding out where it comes from is something I'll do. I'll have the oilfilter later today.

Are you going to drive the car like this?

Don't start the engine or drive the car until you know what's going on. If it is something serious, it will only be made worse by running the engine.

Incorrect in the cases where debris is large enough to be seen with a naked eye. In this case a particulate analysis must be done, which is not the same as a standard UOA. This can only be done by Caterpillar as it is common place with heavy equipment.

Any debris that is great enough in size or quantity to be seen with the naked eye is a serious condition. I'd not operate that engine again until an invasive inspection is carried out, to include sump removal.

With the oil filter removed insert a clean finger into the center inlet of the oil filter housing. If you find debris on your finger when inspected under direct sunlight or flash photography you have permanently damaged main and rod bearings as the debris has passed through the oil filter (via the bypass) and has been fed directly to the main and rod bearings. If this has occurred seek assistance at the next level.

I took some photos of the oilfilter, please comment:

http://img577.imageshack.us/img577/1081/urvy.jpg

http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/3509/6r5q.jpg

http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/7851/vugg.jpg

Do you have any way of knowing (from previous owner if clutch was replaced perhaps) if it is a dual row IMS bearing? or the single row?

can you tell the build month of the car? (assuming it is a 2000 build)

2 and 1/4 years is a long time for old oil to be sitting in the car.
And 10,000 miles is too long to put on the oil. Although this would have been a good time to have the oil inspected before the purchase. Sounds like your mechanic did not do this? assuming you had the car inspected by someone who knows about this car's engine needs.

p.s.
Over here IMS replacement (without replacing the clutch, but something not recommended) is probably approximately 10 hours of shop time at the most. Do you know what a Porsche specialty shop charges per hour in Oslo? I'm sure a competent shop can get it done between 9 am and 5 pm with access to all the right tools. The bearing itself here can cost between $100-$700 (there are a few options so I'm sure about range). The tool to extract the bearing is like $600 or so. But if the shop knows how to do this job they should already have this custom tool. This is not a generic tool you buy at a hardware store.

I do not know if it has a single or a dual row, nor which month in the year of 2000 it was built. Maybe there is a way of checking, say via the VIN number?

I know 27 months between oilchanges is too long. As I said, I purchaes the Boxster july 4.th and all shops were closed during the summertime. They opened now and that´s why I did the service incl oilchange..

I´m thinking of returning the car to the seller..

I will bring the oilfilter with some metalshavings to my local Porsche workshop so that they can determine what type of metal this is, and thereby determine where it comes from within the engine..

Does Norway have a guarantee time for used cars?

The build date on US cars is on the driver's door jam. Where the door closes.

Dual row cars are the most unlikely to have an IMS fail. Some 2000 cars had dual row. But Porsche's serial numbers are not reliable to determine this.

If you have ANY chance of getting your money back do it! I have a dual row and was felling pretty good (based on the law suit reported failure rates), until I recently had the opportunity to hold a failed duel row in my hand....from a low mileage car. That metal does not look like IMS to me....but listen to Jake and the experts.

Did you stick all that up to a magnet and see if it sticks??? A lot of that looks like plastic?

Yeah if there are a lot of fragments from the IMS, that means the bearing is about to fail at any momment. It is very rare/extremely lucky for someone to catch the failure at that exact time just from inspecting the oil and filter.

It sounds like your engine has other problems from possibly bad maintenance. Although that's not certain.

Haz you need to cut the ends off the filter & open the paper out flat so you can see everything in the filter. Drag a magnet across it to see what sticks. It doesn't look to bad, most of what we see looks like silicone sealant. You should have the shop remove the oil sump pan to see what is there & clean the oil pickup tube screen.
Post pictures with a small object so we can reference the size of the particles.

Hi Haz,

Check this worshop nearby, Porsche | SS Performance

So, without taking the car apart to visually see, how is someone going to know if they have one or two rows?

As long as you are certain that the engine is original to the car, all model year 1997 to 1999 Boxsters have a dual row bearing.

If you go further and remove the transmission, you can identify a dual row bearing by a narrow IMS flange.

Model years 2000 and 2001 are a tossup as to which IMS bearing is in there. You can only be certain there by at least removing the transmission. If you find a wider, more offset IMS flange, then there is a single row bearing installed.

Regards, Maurice.

^^ This is the next step before panic sets in. So far I am seeing dirty filter with metallic flakes but not dead motor.

Is it metal? Is it ferrous? Maybe part of it is plastic?

I'd guess chain, chain guides, or paddles wear based on the picture.

Note your IMS rests in a plastic cradle as well as a shoulder/hip type socket
on the far end -- so if its going but somehow hasn't completely failed it
can wear against these surfaces -- but I can't imagine it would be long for life
under those conditions.

There are several points where chains ride against plastic paddles
and there is metal behind some of the paddles.

I'd try to figure out what it is -- but either way that level of debris does not bode well.

Mike

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You're logic is terrible. I sold off half of my Pinball collection to get this car, and no way in hell will I be able to afford another When/If this car's engine goes.
I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.

As far as the IMS scare.. After driving this car for a while, That's the last thing on my mind.
I'm a gambler by nature.. I can only do what I can do.. so I studied up, paid up, rolled the dice.. And now I'm living the dream with no regrets.

*fingers crossed*

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Calm your tits down, I´m cutting the oilfilter as we speak, I´ll report back soon :p

I just cut the filter in its ends to be able to release it and stretch it out.. not a lot of new info, only that there is a lot of metal shavings as the mechanic said.. I´m going out right now to pick up a magnet. Will respond all of your responses asap, I really appreciate any help here :)

http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/4264/s433.jpg

http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/4642/5h8a.jpg

http://img837.imageshack.us/img837/2466/nhzd.jpg

http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/5179/31mr.jpg

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Wow...........:rolleyes:

Sorry to hear of your circumstances. I am following along. If local regulations permit you to return this unit to the dealer/seller, cut it loose, and get another regardless of the severity of this problem.

Here are my replies to you guys.. I will send the particles to a Porsche specialist for an analsys on monday..Looks like I have to save up some serious $$$$ :rolleyes:

Looks like it sticks to a magnet, so it´s not aluminium..

http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/7837/tevj.jpg

They quoted me 20.000 NOK / $3300 for a IMS replacement... NOT inc the part itself.. I got that quote a few weeks ago as I was curious on that cost if it were to ever happen to me....

I did that, see pics below. I already picked the car up, and the mechanic said there were metal particles in the pan as well...

It has a proper servicehistory. Same mechanic for 7 years.

Went out to pick up some magnets now.. and yes it sticks :(

Why does this not look like IMS to you?

I don´t think so. I bought the car july 4.th from a private seller.

Here is a pic from my door. Is this the engine number? e1398/140020

This should help: http://986forum.com/forums/general-discussions/44248-understanding-vin-codes-engine-numbers.html

Also, see the chart in this article: http://www.pelicanparts.com/techarticles/Boxster_Tech/14-ENGINE-Intermediate_Shaft_Bearing/14-ENGINE-Intermediate_Shaft_Bearing.htm

I have a 2000S and it has the dual row bearing. The engine number is stamped on the bottom of the block near the sump plate. Good luck!

Man I am hoping for the best for you? Remember, just fixing IMS may not be the best option. If there is that much material in your filter, most of that was running through your engine and might have scored the other internal parts. Good luck on this...

Haz, sorry this has happened to your Boxster, but 1 oil change in 27 months is NOT proper maintenance. When you get this sorted out, and you will, stick around here and learn about a better oil change interval (yearly, or every 5-7,000 miles, whichever comes first).

Take care.:)