Tesla sells 5K cars....in one quarter

[jrblackman]

Originally Posted by stephen wilson

The Tesla is cool, but electric only vehicles are still only practical for short commutes. The range is only 200 miles at a constant Hwy. speed, spirited driving will kill the battery very quickly. Besides, they still consume fossil fuels, just via powerplants instead of directly. Powerplants have fewer environmental controls than autos, so I don't even buy the Eco-friendly angle.

Also the batteries used in electric vehicles are anything but eco-friendly. Marketing sells electric vehicles as green but it isn't true.

[southernstar]

Electricity is not only 'green' if produced by nuclear plants, but also by wind turbines (popping up in huge numbers in various parts of the world), hydro (think of the Sir Adam Beck plant at Niagara Falls, but also various other smaller hydro-electric plants) and solar (which is becoming more and more prevalent). Furthermore, even when plants use oil to generate electricity, less polution will typically result at peak periods (aka rush-hour) as vehicles are using their stored electricity and recharging at night when there is typically less demand. Over time, as more and more electricity is converted to 'greeen' sources, the difference will become even greater.

At present there are many reasons to prefer gasoline or diesel engines, but contributing to the environment is not one of them.

Brad

[fatmike]

There are at least 3 Model S Tesla's in my town (I've seen three different colors).

Just the other day, a guy in a Tesla pulled up to me and said "nice car" to which I replied "want to trade..."?

He said the car has been a rock solid daily driver for him.




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[stephen wilson]

Brad, I see you've drank the Coolaid. First, the US is unlikely to build any more nuke plants because of the minor inconvenience of the radioactive waste produced. Not very Green to just bury it in Salt mines. Hydro is also has a limited number of sources. Solar is a supplement at best, the power output is tiny compared to a traditional power plant. Ditto wind. I think you're being naïve to think "green" sources will ever produce the bulk of our energy. They are now switching to Nat. gas power because it's so cheap. Pollution is OK if it's produced at night instead of rush hour? Don't get me wrong, I think we should pursue all available energy sources, but other than Nuclear, they don't provide enough to meet demand.

Sorry for the thread derailment.... moving along......

[thstone]

Originally Posted by jrblackman

Also the batteries used in electric vehicles are anything but eco-friendly. Marketing sells electric vehicles as green but it isn't true.

Bingo! Here is some more insight into Li-ion battery recycling:

First, many e-cars use propylene glycol as a coolant for the battery pack. We all already know that this stuff isn't good for the environment and must be carefully recycled or it will contaminate the ground.

Second, the electronics components used to charge and monitor the status of the battery packs must be removed and disposed as e-waste. E-waste is also harmful to the environment.

Third, the batteries are mechanically shredded and then screened into three components: fluff, copper cobalt, and slurry.

The fluff consists of most of the physical parts of the battery (ground plastic, ground metal, and other materials). The battery and car companies say its mostly plastic and say that it is disposed in landfills. But they fail to mention that its been contaminated with a lot of different chemicals so it gets a quick wash (creating contaminated rinse water) and then goes into landfills where whatever chemicals are leftover leach into the soil.

The copper cobalt is sold for later processing to recover the metals such as cobalt, aluminum, nickel, and copper. This requires significantly more chemical processing using ammonia, hydrogen, and sulfuric acid in processes similar to smelting, which in turn, create additional toxic byproducts. Definitely not good for the environment.

The slurry is processed into cobalt filter cake. Soda ash is added and precipitates out as lithium carbonate. Lithium carbonate is well known for its affects on the central nervous system: lithium carbonate is used in the treatment for bipolar disorder and manic depressive illness. 300mg per day is the standard dosage and will significantly affect brain behavior. That is the good side; the bad side is that lithium carbonate toxicity can occur at levels only slightly higher than therapeutic levels (>500 mg per day). Remember 500mg is the amount in one Tylenol capsule - this is not massive dosing. Lithium carbonate has also been proven to be harmful to pregnant women and harm kidney function. There are no formal regulations for the handling, storage, or transportation of lithium carbonate.

Lastly, ask this: Is the battery recycling facility located in the US? Probably not (and in fact, Tesla's battery recycling facility is outside the US). Why? Because EPA regulations make battery recycling almost impossible to perform safely and without impacting the environment. Thus, almost all battery recycling facilities are located outside the US where environmental laws are weak and/or poorly enforced.

The battery recycling facilities that are located within the US are generally only Level 1 facilities where the batteries have the coolant and electronics removed and the batteries are shredded. Then the waste is sent outside the US for the remainder of the processing. This allows companies to "claim" that the batteries are recycled "locally" - true in some sense but ultimately misleading.

Green? You decide.