Single row or double row?
 

The other day, curiosity got the best of me and I crawled under my 2001 BoxsterS and wrote down the engine serial number. My engine number is M96.2167103372. According to the lists of engine numbers I have seen published in the Pelican book and elsewhere which show the change points for double to single row, my engine should have a double row IMSB. My question is whether anyone has kept track of engine numbers of cars with the single row bearing to see what the earliest serial number for the single row bearing would be? I know the only way to be certain is to pull the transmission and have a look, but I wondered if anyone has seen a single row bearing in an engine with a serial number as low as mine? Is roughly 8,000 engines away from the published change point enough to be sure I have the double row? John

Porsche released the list of affected VIN's so check against this also:

6. Which Porsche vehicles are included?
The following Porsche Boxster and 911 vehicles that experienced or will experience IMS related engine damage are included:
• Model year 2001 - 2005 Porsche Boxster vehicles manufactured with an IMS between May 4, 2001 and February 21, 2005 with VINs in the following ranges:
o WP0CA29851S620508 - WP0CA29831S620619
o WP0CB29811S660405 - WP0CB29801S660492
o WP0CA29821U625959 - WP0CA29891U627644
o WP0CB29861U664289 - WP0CB29841U665473
o WP0CA29892S620061 - WP0CA29802S620238
o WP0CA29832U620061 - WP0CA29892U626107
o WP0CB29802U660062 - WP0CB29892U664319
o WP0CB29862S660062 - WP0CB29852S660344
o WP0ZZZ98Z2U602762
o WP0ZZZ98Z2U640813
o WP0CA298X3S620068 - WP0CA29853S620222
o WP0CA29813U620061 - WP0CA298X3U625002
o WP0CB29803U660063 - WP0CB29803U663240
o WP0CB29853S660068 - WP0CB298X3S660227
o WP0ZZZ98Z3U604185
o WP0ZZZ98Z3U640971
o WP0CA29854S620061 - WP0CA29824S621085
o WP0CA298X4U620061 - WP0CA29854U621568
o WP0CB29804S660061 - WP0CB29834S660555
o WP0CB29854U660061 - WP0CB29834U661824
o WP0CA298X5U710067 - WP0CA29815U711852
o WP0CB29885U730069 - WP0CB29835U731310

Man I had hoped (yeah I know hope is not a strategy) my S had avoided the single row. Car was a May 2001 production but my VIN is square in the middle of one of the sequences above. Oh well I guess with 60K on the clock my clutch will need replacement soon anyway and I can replace it then.

Looks like I have a double row bearing. Door sticker says October 2000 production date and the serial number is outside the range of serial numbers listed above.

Did you try writing to the dealer that sold the car? Not that this would go very far but I would be curious to see how they handle such a request in light of the recent settlement. Maybe they had to dust off their records and get them all updated and compturized to handle/verify the claims/payouts on 2001-2005's.

The settlement is not official or final yet, wait till the judge blesses it and both parties sign off. April?

It's a moot point. As we now know, if you have a double row it will never go bad anyway. If it is a single it's a timebomb and you are covered. End sarcasm

I have a 2000 2.7 with a build date in August of 2009 and have been told that even for a car that was produced so soon after the development of the single row bearing, there is no way of knowing which bearing was used without removing the transmission and inspecting it.

The bottom line is that, even though I have installed a magnetic drain plug, change the oil every 3- 4000 miles and inspect the oil and filter for particles and debris, I still intend to replace the IMS bearing when the clutch needs replacement. Considering the much better reliability on the double row bearings, the question is whether it would be preferable to install a new factory double row bearing, rather than an aftermarket one. Does anyone know if the double row bearings are still available?

Brad

John...
Looks like its a crap shoot whatever bearing / engine is installed in the late 2000 / early 2001 cars. My 2001 S was built in Feb with engine #M96.21 67107779. Its fitted with a dual row bearing and when I replaced it in 2010 with 45,000 miles on the clock the bearing was in excellent condition. But the oil had been changed annually and no more than 5,000 miles....

Not trying to scare anyone, but dual row bearings have failed too, though to a lesser extent.

I understand that dual row bearings have failed. For me, knowing whether I have a dual or single row bearing helps me decide whether to replace the bearing without regard to the condition of the clutch (single row) or wait until the car needs a clutch and replace the bearing then (double row). If there is a less than one percent chance of a double row bearing failing and a 4 to 8 percent chance of a single row bearing failing, that is a significant difference to me and will help me make a decision. At this point I am leaning toward waiting until my car needs a clutch to do anything with the bearing and in the meantime will continue to check camshaft deviation with my durametric and examine the oil filter for metal.

Not breaking apart, and not being bad are not the same things. The dual row bearing still suffer from rubber seal failure which displaces the sealed grease. With twice as many balls there is twice as much ferous metal debris that can/will conaminate other bearing surfaces (namely cam and crank surfaces).

The improved durability against breakage/toal failure is a compromise to more metal contamination circulating through the lubrication system.

If you have an engine with a servicable bearing its worth changing as early as possible. IMO

Skoot

I haven't seen anything about the 1997, is that a double or singlerow?

1997's are all double.

Thanks for the quick reply!

It must be too early in the morning for me, I can't seem to figure out where my vin fits in here. :confused: Can someone help me out?

My 2002 S VIN= WP0CB29852U663832

Seems like that's a good thing.

It's in the middle of this range:

o WP0CB29802U660062 - WP0CB29892U664319

good points. Which sort makes me wish there was an LNE no-bearing upgrade for dual rows.
But I guess the money is with the single row sales.

WOW REALLY?????:ah:

LOL!!!! Yes the money was absolutely with the single row bearings. I just wonder where they found such a good deal on the oversized single row bearings?

I bet it fits some Czech tractor transmission that was obsolete in the 80's.

Skoot

YEAH! WOW REALLY!!!!!!!

Sheeessshhhh......... So sorry for my original post, I hope I didn't upset your personal life too much! :rolleyes:

If I would have known that YOU would have had such pitiful surprise, I would have been more clear "just for you"
and put into details, that I was up early and I had not yet put in my contact lenses and was having a hard time seeing my screen. WTF?

I should have done more research (about 5 minutes worth) before posting. Search "VIN" decoder before referring to VIN list posted regarding single vs. double row.

Lesser extent is an understatement. Less than 1% vs. 8-10%. There are many motors from many manufactures that have engine failures near 1%. And as for the argument that the more bearings mean more metal particles in your oil, not so much. If your double bearing is shearing off slivers of metal, it will totally fail at some point so I don't think this a big issue due to the less than 1% failure. With the current stats that Porsche has released, I think if you have a double bearing engine, you can rest easy! The double bearing engines are no more likely to have total engine failure than any other performance motor. I'll think about changing mine when I need a new clutch. Until then, I'm not going to give my IMS a second thought!:dance:

I'm just wondering where the failure rate statistics are found? I have seen a lot of numbers thrown around, in regard to IMS failures, and they all seem like here-say.

Regardless of the actual numbers though, this is a well-documented shortcoming of these motors. And given the motor replacement cost, it almost seems like a no-brainer, to have this bearing upgraded, when it is either convenient or financially feasible, unless you are the gambling type.

My 2001 S has a build of 03/2001. BUT.... it falls is this area of single rows; WP0CB29802U660062 - WP0CB29892U664319.

It's morning. Still workin' on my first cup of joe. And I do appreciate your confusion...

Once again, Porsche has made things more confusing than is necessary, IMHO anyway. For starters, WHY do they have some of the ranges in ascending numerical order and some in descending order? :confused:

Secondly, they have some ranges that are, to varying degrees, duplicates, ie that seem to be overlapping. What's the logic in that? :confused: :confused:

I sort of wonder if they're just being recalcitrant (ie difficult) in their responses to requests for discovery at trial maybe?? Whatever...

In any case, mine ('01 S) has a VIN that begins with: WPO CB29841

I would seem to be triple-whammied, since I would appear to fall in ALL 3 of these ranges...

o WP0CB29802U660062 - WP0CB29892U664319
o WP0CB29854U660061 - WP0CB29834U661824
o WP0CB29885U730069 - WP0CB29835U731310

The Porsche supplied VIN data is sorted by model year with 01 on the top and 05 on the bottom. The three ranges you questioned are for 02, 04 and 05 models respectively.

Maybe not..
Do a research of VIN,this site.
Look at 10th character.
Build date.
Your Box is not in that range.

Hummmmm...... I believe you're right. The VIN range I was looking at was for 2002s; WP0CB29802U660062 - WP0CB29892U664319. Odd that my last six sequential numbers, 663867, are included in the 2002 VINs.

Thanks jotoole, I appreciate your help.

Sorry to resurrect an old thread but the more I read the forum the more worried I get about the much talked about IMS failure. My Vin: WP0CA29841U621069 I don't believe lies in that range. Moreover, on the passenger door sill, the manufactured date states 09/00 in Finland which I believe is September 2000. This must mean my engine was manufactured before that. Is that any assurance that I could have a double row bearing? Losing sleep over this so finally decided to put it out there. Thanks.

Since my original posting I found a posting by Pelican. http://www.pelicanparts.com/techarticles/Boxster_Tech/14-ENGINE-Intermediate_Shaft_Bearing/14-ENGINE-Intermediate_Shaft_Bearing.htm

Below are their findings.

The engine number of my 2001 Boxster S with a 3/2001 build date is M96 21/ 671 09227. According to a Pelican Technical Article, this engine should have a double row IMS baring.

The class action lawsuit states that single row bearings have an 8% failure rate while the double row has a 1% failure rate.


Engine Number Model Bearing Type
Up to engine # M 651 12851 Boxster 2.7L M96.22 Double Row Bearing
Up to engine # M 671 11237 Boxster S 3.2L M96.21 Double Row Bearing
Up to engine # M 661 14164 Carrera 996 3.4L Double Row Bearing
From engine # M 651 12852 Boxster 2.7L M96.22 Single Row Bearing
From engine # M 651 11238 Boxster S 3.2L M96.21 Single Row Bearing
From engine # M 661 14165 Carrera 996 3.4L Single Row Bearing
All 2005 Boxster 987 (maybe some 2006 models) Single Row Bearing
All 2005 Carrera 997 (maybe some 2006 models) Single Row Bearing
Maybe some 2006 Cayman models Single Row Bearing

All of those numbers posted are to be taken with a grain of salt. We find discrepancies with them routinely here in the real world. In 2000 and 2001 the engine can be a single or dual row. In 2005 the engine can be an M96 single row or an M97 single row. Those years require a visual inspection to verify which bearing the engine is fired with.

The info for other, non change- over years is more accurate.

Not even the data from the class action suit is 100% correct.

I understand that the visual inspection you mention will require pulling the clutch assembly amongst other things, right? Is there any alternate way to make this determination in the least intrusive way? Thanks.

No...........

Hello,

I hope someone can HELP.

I am very interested in buying a used 2000 Boxster , but am afraid of the IMS issue. Sticker says mfd 12/99. Can I supply the vin and can someone tell me if the car has the single or dual row IMS?

Thank you !

Sorry... No one can help you. As mentioned in this thread, the only way to determine which IMS you have is to drop the transmission and look at the cover.

If this is an issue now to you don't buy the car. If you do, it will haunt you. Or, if you do buy it plan on spending another $2,500ish to have it updated with one of the after market units out there.

There are many of us that just don't care. I may have mine replaced when I do the clutch.

My hat is off to you... you obviously used the search feature to find this older post. Keep looking and reading and you should be thoroughly confused when finished.

Good luck. :)

Factor in the price of a quality IMS replacement and bargain for half the cost. If it is going to worry you, walk away.

My VIN. number on my 03 Boxster is WP0CA29863U620735. Can some confrim for me my car is not affected by the IMS problem?

<<< Never mind looks like i jumped the gun i'm affected by IMS issue :o WP0CA29821U625959 - WP0CA29891U627644

In order of importance:

#1 Porsche never associated VIN numbers with engine numbers, so VIN numbers are useless in determining which style IMS is in a car, period. Assuming the car has its original engine, 1997 thru 1999 cars were all dual rows; 2000 and 2001 cars can go either way, but under NO circumstances will the VIN or build date tell you anything useful, you need to pull the car apart and look to find out if it is a single of dual row. THERE IS NO OTHER PROVEN WAY. Cars built from 2002 thru 2004 are ALL single row engines. 2005 is another crap shoot year, some of the cars are single row serviceable IMS bearings, others are the over sized non serviceable IMS bearing. Again, YOU HAVE TO PULL THE CAR APART TO FIND OUT WHICH ONE IT IS. VIN numbers, build dates, or phases of the moon won't help you, it has to come apart, period. 2006 thru 2008 engines are all non serviceable IMS bearings.


#2 Your 2003 car, if it has its original engine, has the single row bearing in it, which has the highest probability of failure (around 8-10%).

#3 All engines with IMS bearings in them have some level of potential for the bearing to fail, the only thing that changes is the probability of failure.