I bought a 1998 Boxster 2.5, did I make a huge mistake???

[Nimbus117]

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

The % of failure is both inaccurate and almost irrelevant. If you have a 2001-2005 there is a very obvious flawe in the engine design. One that can be exacerbated by the stewarship, or lack of, by the previous owner if you're someone that purchased the car used. Porsche just settled claims for precisely these years. Generally big companies don't do something like this unless there's something in their own internal records confirming that a problem isn't a small % but well beyond the industry avearage for what is acceptable. Records from dealerships and engine replacement programs that would not play well before a U.S jury. Otherwise Porsche would have settled on all Boxster/Carrera claims, dual row bearings included. But they didn't -- just the single row. That's a point that shouldn't be lost on a single row bearing owner. Either are bad design but single is by far the worst. Just ask Porsche's lawyers.

So it's not a "just in case" retrofit, it's addressing a known problem now confidentially confirmed by the manufacturer. The IMS Guardian is probably good advice but since a clutch is not an item that's going to last forever a single row Boxster/Carrera owner would be wise to simply address the problem rather than waiting for a flawe to turn into game ender. Relying on unconfirmed, inaccurate and undisclosed %'s to any degree is questionable/shaky advice.

There are things you know (engine design flawe) and the things you don't know (% of IMS failures). I replaced a dual row bearing, but if I had a single row IMSB, I'd be swapping it out before the ink on that class action settlment check had even dryed.

p.s.
relying on the oil change filter inspection to detect IMS failure is like cargo inspection for narcotics at the U.S. Border.
The probability that a physuical search of every 100th car/container will land on the very car carrying drugs is a long shot.
You'd be quiet the lucky guy to be changing your oil just when the IMSB decided to let go.

Again, this is just you opinion. You don’t know what the real failure rate is so how say that every Boxster with a single row IMSB should be replaced immediately. 99% of 986/996 owners do not post on forums and fair to say the only people that do post here and other sites about this issue either have had issues or have concerns. Scaremongers like you just feed the IMSB replacement industry (who also don’t disclose the condition of the bearings they replace). Does anyone even know if the LNE replacement is a permanent fix or will these engines need pulling apart in a few years too?

I clearly stated that I might get mine done when the clutch needs replacing for my peace of mind which you disagreed with. My car has done 80k, has an oil change every 5k miles and filter checked for particles, driven as recommended etc and had no problem with the engine exploding getting to work today or the previous 10 years for that matter. Porsche had to admit there was a design issue but only in the US due to the blame culture, they have not offered to modify every affected engine free of charge, have they? There may be a minority that continue to experience failures so every owner will have to weigh up the risks but there are things like regular oil changes that you can do to reduce it.

Toyota allegedly have a 3.7% catastrophic engine failure rate and other manufacturers have similar rates but you never hear the hysteria like you do on Boxster/911 forums (Honda are best with 1 engine failure in every 134 cars).

[Timco]

Originally Posted by Nimbus117

Again, this is just you opinion. You don’t know what the real failure rate is so how say that every Boxster with a single row IMSB should be replaced immediately. 99% of 986/996 owners do not post on forums and fair to say the only people that do post here and other sites about this issue either have had issues or have concerns. Scaremongers like you just feed the IMSB replacement industry (who also don’t disclose the condition of the bearings they replace). Does anyone even know if the LNE replacement is a permanent fix or will these engines need pulling apart in a few years too?

I clearly stated that I might get mine done when the clutch needs replacing for my peace of mind which you disagreed with. My car has done 80k, has an oil change every 5k miles and filter checked for particles, driven as recommended etc and had no problem with the engine exploding getting to work today or the previous 10 years for that matter. Porsche had to admit there was a design issue but only in the US due to the blame culture, they have not offered to modify every affected engine free of charge, have they? There may be a minority that continue to experience failures so every owner will have to weigh up the risks but there are things like regular oil changes that you can do to reduce it.

Toyota allegedly have a 3.7% catastrophic engine failure rate and other manufacturers have similar rates but you never hear the hysteria like you do on Boxster/911 forums (Honda are best with 1 engine failure in every 134 cars).

While I agree with this, if the IMS failure caused the engine to catch fire in some cases or caused a rear wheel to fall off occasionally, every Boxster made would have been recalled. Remember the Ford / Firestone issue? How many tires actually failed? It depends on the safety of the occupants when the failure occurs.

[mikefocke]

You bought a 14 year old car that had been driven 2k per year.

Sure there will be minor issues. And only time will tell if yours will have major issues.

I'd do all the fluids changes, look at the tire dates. Check the serpentine belt. Inspect the coilpacks.

Expect plastic parts like tanks and AOS to fail because of age.

An issue might be major to you while from an overall percentage basis not so much.

Concentrate on enjoying it.

[paintboy]

Your big mistake is worrying too much. Drive. Enjoy. Repair. Repeat.

[Vista glass]

No you did not make a huge mistake. Drive, enjoy! IF it breaks at least you enjoyed it. Then go down the logic/decision tree. I have a 98 with 87K. I did the LN upgrade when doing a clutch. The old bearing was in great shape, but since I was there. If you are stressed I prescribe a long drive on a twist stretch of road for relief. Otherwise I'll give $3000.00 for it to help you de stress.

[Porsche Chick]

Oh, stop being such a girl!

You bought it, now enjoy it.

[Meat Head]

After Porsche released the actual percentages of IMS bearing failures I feel MUCH better about my purchase. My Boxster is a 1998 with the 2.5 motor and to my understanding has the double bearings that have less than a 1% failure rate.


I'm so happy I want to :dance:



I will still most likely upgrade my IMS bearings but not until I need a new clutch.
I'm very curios to see if this drives up the price on the 2000 and earlier Boxsters.

[Perfectlap]

Originally Posted by Nimbus117

Again, this is just you opinion. You don’t know what the real failure rate is so how say that every Boxster with a single row IMSB should be replaced immediately. 99% of 986/996 owners do not post on forums and fair to say the only people that do post here and other sites about this issue either have had issues or have concerns. Scaremongers like you just feed the IMSB replacement industry (who also don’t disclose the condition of the bearings they replace). Does anyone even know if the LNE replacement is a permanent fix or will these engines need pulling apart in a few years too?

I clearly stated that I might get mine done when the clutch needs replacing for my peace of mind which you disagreed with. My car has done 80k, has an oil change every 5k miles and filter checked for particles, driven as recommended etc and had no problem with the engine exploding getting to work today or the previous 10 years for that matter. Porsche had to admit there was a design issue but only in the US due to the blame culture, they have not offered to modify every affected engine free of charge, have they? There may be a minority that continue to experience failures so every owner will have to weigh up the risks but there are things like regular oil changes that you can do to reduce it.

p.s.
How much does it cost to replace a corolloa engine vs. an m96/m97? All failure rates are not created equal.

Toyota allegedly have a 3.7% catastrophic engine failure rate and other manufacturers have similar rates but you never hear the hysteria like you do on Boxster/911 forums (Honda are best with 1 engine failure in every 134 cars).

I will say this, which I've said already, it's NOT about the number of cars that have failed. It is simply about addressing a design flawe. Porsche have recognized it is a flawe by opening up their wallets even when the cars were out of warranty, a very uncommon practice in the auto industry unless the failure was a consequence of POOR DESIGN. And Porsche have yet again opened their wallets for fear of bringing their document discovery to the light of day which could find their way onto infinite numbers of car blogs. Leaks would have been unavoidable if the case went further. Now all those records have been quietly shreded and erased.

YOUR engine has a POOR DESIGN element still in it. One that can actually be addressed without 1) removing the engine, 2) splitting the engine or 3) without expensive parts. THANKS TO LNE. You don't have to "fear monger" to recognize that LNE provided a solution where Porsche told everyone else to pound sand.


You can choose to ignore it, fine. Take your chances. It has nothing to do with the stats becuase 1) they're all garbage and 2) it doesn't change the fact that a single row bearing should never have been put in your car in the first place. If I know something is poor design, and ignoring opens the door to the possibility of a big big problem, I close that door...No matter how unlikely or accurately documented. And given that you're already changing your oil more frequently than the factory ever recommended it seems you're into closing doors yourself.

p.s.
How much does it cost to replace a cheap Toyota engine vs. a Porsche M96/M97?
Cost of repairs do not scale down with age. Probably why all thy hysteria...

[Nimbus117]

We all know of the flaw but the car has lasted this long and got me to work again today.

I will stand by what I said originally and that was I will probably get the IMSB replaced when the clutch goes and this will be to put my mind at rest. There is a chance it could fail, however the oil gets changed regularly and the car is driven regularly so the risk is low for me.

You have a different viewpoint and that's fine, like everything in life there are risks and repercussions. I feel my car can last a year until the clutch needs replacing, I would ask that you respect my choice instead of rubbishing it.

[EssexPorsche]

**Subscribed** AGAIN!.

I'm like most and have responded with my honest opinion to this and other threads that are all related and running at the same time.

I had to get peace. I wanted to keep the car. Some say a P of this age is a cheap car... that may be the case but its still an expensive lawn ornament or a total B@ll ache to part-out if it goes bang.

So i did not ask opinions - i quietly read up and i made my choice and made my peace. I had two obstacles!!! My wife and my wise old dad.

Both told me i was nuts, that it was fine, it would not happen to me, told me to think about the cost of the repair in relation to the value of the car.

I offered them both the same deal. I would pay them £500.00 with which they could do with what they wanted. This was my 'insurance'. The deal was that if the engine goes bang because of the IMS ANY TIME during my ownership they had to pay for it to be rebuilt, say £6k! If they were so confident then they could spend the £500.00 and never worry! Strangley with that on the table neither had the same confident outlook and soon agreed that it was an ok investment if i intend to keep the car - which i do.

Look at it like this - Its rather like a rubber cam-belt in any other car - would you leave it on there for 10 years or 100k miles would you? No - you would take preventive measures. Yes i know that cam-belt changes on other cars are cheaper... but you have a porsche! What did you expect. Treat it as a part of the car that can and will need maintenance. If this cost is an issue... you have bought the wrong car for cheap thrills - go and buy an MR2 turbo!

Just my 2 pounds worth!

There is no right or wrong - there is rationale on both sides , you only need to sqaure it away with yourself. It depend if you are the worrying kind and risk averse, or if a porsche of this age does indeed represent a cheap beater. Ultimately you have to weigh up the odds for yourself and live with a decision.

Un-subscribing now as i have made that decision and i sleep very soundly - not smug, just happy.

[Perfectlap]

Originally Posted by Nimbus117

We all know of the flaw but the car has lasted this long and got me to work again today.

I will stand by what I said originally and that was I will probably get the IMSB replaced when the clutch goes and this will be to put my mind at rest. There is a chance it could fail, however the oil gets changed regularly and the car is driven regularly so the risk is low for me.

You have a different viewpoint and that's fine, like everything in life there are risks and repercussions. I feel my car can last a year until the clutch needs replacing, I would ask that you respect my choice instead of rubbishing it.

Fine. But it's NOT fear mongering for the sake of profit. It's simply a modification/upgrade to a known problem (single bearing vulnerabilities).
Some do it out of fear, some do it because its logical. Either way the problem doesn't go away.

[Nimbus117]

Originally Posted by EssexPorsche

**Subscribed** AGAIN!.

I'm like most and have responded with my honest opinion to this and other threads that are all related and running at the same time.

I had to get peace. I wanted to keep the car. Some say a P of this age is a cheap car... that may be the case but its still an expensive lawn ornament or a total B@ll ache to part-out if it goes bang.

So i did not ask opinions - i quietly read up and i made my choice and made my peace. I had two obstacles!!! My wife and my wise old dad.

Both told me i was nuts, that it was fine, it would not happen to me, told me to think about the cost of the repair in relation to the value of the car.

I offered them both the same deal. I would pay them £500.00 with which they could do with what they wanted. This was my 'insurance'. The deal was that if the engine goes bang because of the IMS ANY TIME during my ownership they had to pay for it to be rebuilt, say £6k! If they were so confident then they could spend the £500.00 and never worry! Strangley with that on the table neither had the same confident outlook and soon agreed that it was an ok investment if i intend to keep the car - which i do.

Look at it like this - Its rather like a rubber cam-belt in any other car - would you leave it on there for 10 years or 100k miles would you? No - you would take preventive measures. Yes i know that cam-belt changes on other cars are cheaper... but you have a porsche! What did you expect. Treat it as a part of the car that can and will need maintenance. If this cost is an issue... you have bought the wrong car for cheap thrills - go and buy an MR2 turbo!

Just my 2 pounds worth!

There is no right or wrong - there is rationale on both sides , you only need to sqaure it away with yourself. It depend if you are the worrying kind and risk averse, or if a porsche of this age does indeed represent a cheap beater. Ultimately you have to weigh up the odds for yourself and live with a decision.

Un-subscribing now as i have made that decision and i sleep very soundly - not smug, just happy.

Where did you get it replaced for £500 Pete? cheapest reputable place I have seen is a place called Revolution at £1200 (£1500 with the clutch).

[EssexPorsche]

I didn't get it replaced for £500.00
That was just the offer I have the naysayers!
All in I spent £1950.00
This was what my wife and dad had trouble with. £2k on a £10k car isint great economics I grant you, but the £500.00 I offered made them think about it from my perspective and eventually I hade harmonious agreement to raid the kitchen re-fit money to prevent my toy from breaking.

Ha ha.

[EssexPorsche]

I didn't get it replaced for £500.00
That was just the offer I gave the naysayers!
All in I spent £1950.00
This was what my wife and dad had trouble with. £2k on a £10k car isint great economics I grant you, but the £500.00 I offered made them think about it from my perspective and eventually I hade harmonious agreement to raid the kitchen re-fit money to prevent my toy from breaking.

Ha ha.

[Nimbus117]

These guys get rave reviews on boxa.net so will get them to do the IMSB, clutch and RMS. Bit loathed to do it now as I have no issues with anything.

All the latest revolution Porsche offers

[EssexPorsche]

Nimbus, I hear you.
You have to cut your cloth as you see it, plough your own furrow.
I wasn't rail roadbed or pressured. I arrived at my decision in my own time.

[Nimbus117]

I want to see what happens with this idea and whether it will come to the UK:

Direct Oil Injection for IMS Bearings | TuneRS Motorsports – Porsche performance, repair and restoration

[westladog]

I was like you about two years ago. I really didn't need to replace the ims because it was still great when they pulled it out. I also had the clutch replaced all for $1700 parts and labor. It only gave me piece of mind.

I've put 50,000 miles in two years with no issues at all. Can't wait when it hits 100k miles in a few months!

I also got rid of the Mobil 1 overrated oil. Just plain oil every 5k miles. No issues!
I rev it to 5k rpm everyday on my way to work.

Maintenance is easy if you can raise the car. It's no different from standard cars.
If I can perform the 60k miles maintenance myself, anyone can. I can't believe some shops want $3000 just to replace the spark plugs, oil, oil filter, cabin filter, air filter, belt?

Just drive it
Just be glad that you didn't pay retail and people think you're rich when you only paid less than $15k