Go Back   986 Forum - for Porsche Boxster & Cayman Owners > Porsche Boxster & Cayman Forums > Boxster General Discussions

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-03-2013, 10:37 PM   #1
Registered User
 
americantoys's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: NJ
Posts: 1
New guy: Exactly what is "heel and toe to rev match"

Hello....new guy here. Looks like an excellent forum. I've seen the term "heel and toe to rev match" with regards to down-shifting. I'm enrolled in the Porsche Sport Driving School for later this year and this is a point I'd like to familiarize myself with before attending. Can anyone explain it? Thanks

__________________
Dan

Last edited by americantoys; 02-03-2013 at 10:41 PM. Reason: clarification
americantoys is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2013, 01:59 AM   #2
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Malta
Posts: 144
Let me google that for you

Let me google that for you
rene525d is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2013, 06:14 AM   #3
Registered User
 
Perfectlap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 8,708
Is that going to be your first driving school or instruction of any kind?
__________________
GT3 Recaro Seats - Boxster Red
GT3 Aero / Carrera 18" 5 spoke / Potenza RE-11
Fabspeed Headers & Noise Maker
BORN: March 2000 - FINLAND
IMS#1 REPLACED: April 2010 - NEW JERSEY -- LNE DUAL ROW
Perfectlap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2013, 07:51 AM   #4
Registered User
 
The Radium King's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Canada
Posts: 2,987
when you downshift you take foot off gas and push clutch in. engine rpms drop (say to idle at 800 rpm) but wheels (transmission) still spinning at whatever rpm they were at when you started the procedure (say 4000 rpm). to just release the clutch would slam the engine pretty hard, so what you do is blip the gas prior to releasing the clutch to try and raise engine rpm to match transmission rpm.

when driving aggressively into corners you are braking and downshifting at the same time because you want to be in the proper gear on exit from the corner. gas and brake use same foot, so in order to do a throttle blip, downshift and brake all at once you have to use part of your foot on the brake and part on the gas; heel/toe, side of foot, whatever.
The Radium King is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2013, 11:51 AM   #5
Certified Boxster Addict
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 7,613
Approach the braking point for the corner
Apply brakes
Clutch in (still braking)
Down shift (still braking)
Keeping the ball of your right foot on the brake, roll right foot over and blip the throttle using either the side of your foot or the heel (still braking)
As the engine RPM's rise, engage the clutch smoothly (still braking)
Come off the brakes and get back onto the throttle
Turn into the corner using the throttle to modulate your corner entry speed (you should have completed all of your braking by now)
Make mid-corner corrections using smooth inputs to the steering and throttle
Start to unwind the steering and get onto the throttle as you exit the corner as fast as possible

Takes lots of practice and should be one smooth fluid movement instead of 4-5 discrete steps. You will definitely need this technique to drive well on a track.
__________________
1999 996 C2 - sold - bought back - sold for more
1997 Spec Boxster BSR #254
1979 911 SC
POC Licensed DE/TT Instructor

Last edited by thstone; 02-04-2013 at 11:54 AM.
thstone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2013, 12:54 PM   #6
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Toronto
Posts: 2,656
Ayrton Senna's Heel-and-toe - YouTube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IuoZeuSgEj4
ekam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2013, 01:26 PM   #7
Registered User
 
Perfectlap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 8,708
I think, don't quote me, but PDS puts you in PDK cars.

Which sounds like they want you to concentrate on things other than proper shifting.

at any rate, to get the most out of the class, you should do a few autocross days with your local PCA beforehand. As many as you can fit into your schedule. There's no downshfiting in Autocross (unless its an unusual lot). You shift once and concentrate on the basics for a roughly one minute lap, probably at your local football/baseball stadium. Cost is usually $40-$50 for the day.

Whatever is taught at that pricey school will not be fully absorbed in just one day. It's best to go in with some seat time. The more seat time you have going in the more you'll get out of the class.
__________________
GT3 Recaro Seats - Boxster Red
GT3 Aero / Carrera 18" 5 spoke / Potenza RE-11
Fabspeed Headers & Noise Maker
BORN: March 2000 - FINLAND
IMS#1 REPLACED: April 2010 - NEW JERSEY -- LNE DUAL ROW

Last edited by Perfectlap; 02-04-2013 at 01:29 PM.
Perfectlap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2013, 04:36 PM   #8
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Miami florida
Posts: 1,591
One step at at a time. First, practice, practice, practice rev matching without braking. In 3rd gear around 3k rpm, put the clutch in, blip the throttle and downshift to second and quickly let the clutch out. You have to do it quickly, any hesitation and it wont work. If you over blipped, the car will lurch forward, if you under blipped, the car will lurch backwards. Do it over and over again until you get the sweet spot so when you let the clutch out the car doesn't lurch.

Once you have mastered rev matching, then add the braking. Put the ball of your foot on the brake and apply some pressure, clutch in, move your heal or side of your foot to the throttle and while still braking, blip the throttle, downshift to second, clutch out, brake off. It takes a lot of practice, so just go slowly.

Then if you really want a challenge, you can move up to heal and toe double clutch. But that's another lesson.
__________________
Current car

2000 Boxster 2.7l red/black

Previous cars

1973 Opel Manta
1969(?) Fiat 850 Convertible
1979 Lancia Beta Coupe
1981 Alfa Romeo GTV 6
1985 Alfa Romeo Graduate
1985 Porsche 944
1989 Porsche 944
1981 Triumph TR7
1989 (?) Alfa Romeo Milano
1993 Saab 9000

Last edited by san rensho; 02-04-2013 at 04:44 PM.
san rensho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2013, 04:52 PM   #9
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Miami florida
Posts: 1,591
That video is fantastic. What is really impressive is how busy he is the corners. He is simultaneously sawing the wheel and furiously on and off the throttle at the same time, yet the car is going smoothly through the corner. Perfect control at the edge. But he probably was the best F1 driver even though he didn't have the stats of other drivers.
__________________
Current car

2000 Boxster 2.7l red/black

Previous cars

1973 Opel Manta
1969(?) Fiat 850 Convertible
1979 Lancia Beta Coupe
1981 Alfa Romeo GTV 6
1985 Alfa Romeo Graduate
1985 Porsche 944
1989 Porsche 944
1981 Triumph TR7
1989 (?) Alfa Romeo Milano
1993 Saab 9000
san rensho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2013, 07:31 PM   #10
Registered User
 
Perfectlap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 8,708
^ ah the famous white socks video. That video does an excellent job of showing Senna's "jab the throttle" technique. It was a carry over from his early days in the turbo cars. He was constantly pumping the throttle through the whole lap. Together with his amazing talent for knowing exactly where the tires would have the most bite and he never lost any momentum while everyone else was driving the old way losing a tenth here and a tenth there.
__________________
GT3 Recaro Seats - Boxster Red
GT3 Aero / Carrera 18" 5 spoke / Potenza RE-11
Fabspeed Headers & Noise Maker
BORN: March 2000 - FINLAND
IMS#1 REPLACED: April 2010 - NEW JERSEY -- LNE DUAL ROW
Perfectlap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2013, 07:39 PM   #11
1999 base
 
Meir's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Coral Springs FL
Posts: 1,586
Garage
A little of topic, but I highly recommend watching the movie about his life.
It's simply called "senna", and available on Netflix.
Meir is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2013, 06:10 AM   #12
Registered User
 
Perfectlap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 8,708
^ if you're a big F1 fan want to see something even better (imho) and still have a VCR, go on Amazon and order the documentary about him called "A Star Named Senna". It's probably one of the best sports documentaries I've ever seen. I think it came out in the late 90's before DVDs became so common. A really amazing amount of one on one interview footage that showed a whole different side of Senna. And wayyy more onboard footage than the recent movie. They have old footage of Senna karting with his nephew Bruno (now an F1 driver) on the family karting track.

http://www.amazon.com/Star-Named-Ayrton-Senna-VHS/dp/0769735312/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1360077492&sr=8-1&keywords=a+star+named+senna


I thought the recent movie wasn't nearly as good and got most of its praise because some many people in the mainstream were wholly unfamiliar with the whole Senna story. I read reviews online that said most people who were in the theaters at Sundance had no idea that Senna actually dies at the end. Which is just nuts given how huge a figure he was in racing.
__________________
GT3 Recaro Seats - Boxster Red
GT3 Aero / Carrera 18" 5 spoke / Potenza RE-11
Fabspeed Headers & Noise Maker
BORN: March 2000 - FINLAND
IMS#1 REPLACED: April 2010 - NEW JERSEY -- LNE DUAL ROW

Last edited by Perfectlap; 02-05-2013 at 06:21 AM.
Perfectlap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2013, 06:39 AM   #13
1999 base
 
Meir's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Coral Springs FL
Posts: 1,586
Garage
thanks perfeclap.
now i need to find a VCR
Meir is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2013, 06:47 AM   #14
Registered User
 
Perfectlap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 8,708
The VCR's are probably cheaper on Ebay than the actual VHS tape! LOL.

The production company that made the Senna documentary must have gone out of business.
Otherwise they would have remastered it for DVD given the success of the recent film.

And if you do end up getting the VCR get a copy of Murray Walker's Fantastic Momments. Outstanding! That was real F1 !!! not this remote controlled stuff now.
That film has the last laps of Senna v. Mansell going nose to tail the whole way at Monaco in 92. And a bunch of stuff from the early 80's like Gilles v. Arnoux.

Amazon.com: Murray Walker's Fantastic Moments [VHS]: Murray Walker: Movies & TV
__________________
GT3 Recaro Seats - Boxster Red
GT3 Aero / Carrera 18" 5 spoke / Potenza RE-11
Fabspeed Headers & Noise Maker
BORN: March 2000 - FINLAND
IMS#1 REPLACED: April 2010 - NEW JERSEY -- LNE DUAL ROW
Perfectlap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2013, 09:59 AM   #15
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 598
I find the pedal placement on the Boxster perfect (with the brake pedal depressed, the top part of the accelerator pedal is level with the brake pedal) for using the ball of your foot on the brake pedal and the opposite side of the foot on the top of the accelerator pedal, pivoting side to side, rather than the traditional heel and toe. You may also wish to consider double-clutching (also referred to as double-de-clutching) as, when done properly, the downshifts are butter smooth and put no strain on the synchronizers.

For that one depresses the brake pedal with the ball of your right foot, depresses the clutch and moves the shifter to neutral, releases the clutch and 'blips' the throttle to the appropriate number of RPM's (you will eventually get to know it by sound and feel, keeping in mind that it must initialy be higher than the perfect match of revs for gear engagement, as the revs drop as soon as your foot leaves the accelerator pedal), depress the clutch, move the shifter to the lower gear (when revs are pefectly matched it goes in very easily) and release the clutch. If it sounds difficult, it really isn't and, as has already been mentioned, practise makes perfect.

Enjoy!

Brad
southernstar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2013, 10:39 AM   #16
noneoftheabove
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Ottawa, ON
Posts: 41
I'll have a crack at explaining it!

Heel and toeing is a driving technique used mostly in performance driving. Although myself using it more and more in day to day conditions. It involves operating the throttle and brake pedals simultaneously with the right foot, while facilitating normal clutch use with the left foot. It is most commonly used prior to entering a turn, and allows the driver to "blip" the throttle to raise the engine speed and smoothly engage the lower gear.

The advantage of heel and toeing is that often through a corner you must down shift to get into the cars gear powerband, it also avoids the jerking motion of simply downshifting and not raising engine speed. It makes the motion smooth, and often enough smooth tends to be the quickest way around the track!

Hope this helped, Lucas.

RoadsideStig is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -8. The time now is 11:53 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page