What I am doing wrong for smooth shifts? - 986 Forum - The Community for Porsche Boxster & Cayman Owners

rondocap · 01-03-2013, 02:55 PM

This is my first manual car, so It's a learning process.

I noticed that went I shift from 1st to 2nd, to 3rd, at around 2k RPM, the shift is pretty smooth and I apply smooth gas as well minimally.

When I shift from 1st to 2nd at a higher rpm, like 3 or 4k, I get a bit more of the car engaging not smoothly. Is this because I have to give more gas to match the rpms when it is 3k +? I'd guess that around 2k I need to give it less gas as I disengage the clutch.

Also, is it normal for there to be slightly more resistance on the shift from 1st to 2nd as opposed to 2nd to 3rd?

Meir · 01-03-2013, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rondocap

This is my first manual car, so It's a learning process.

I noticed that went I shift from 1st to 2nd, to 3rd, at around 2k RPM, the shift is pretty smooth and I apply smooth gas as well minimally.

When I shift from 1st to 2nd at a higher rpm, like 3 or 4k, I get a bit more of the car engaging not smoothly. Is this because I have to give more gas to match the rpms when it is 3k +? I'd guess that around 2k I need to give it less gas as I disengage the clutch.

Also, is it normal for there to be slightly more resistance on the shift from 1st to 2nd as opposed to 2nd to 3rd?

You are doing nothing wrong.
It shouldn't be any difference between the RPM's, when all is right.
I had a similar issue, that I hope it will be solved.
I'm in the process of replacing the clutch, and did also the front engine mount.
I truly hope it will solve it.
The boxster is not the best car as a first manual, but could be you just need a new engine mount.
How many miles do you have on your car, and is it base or S?

rondocap · 01-03-2013, 04:11 PM

It's a base 2001, with 54,000 miles on the original clutch and motor mounts.

pothole · 01-03-2013, 04:16 PM

Without observing you, this is hard to answer.

If you are changing gears reasonably rapidly, you don't really need to "give more gas". Indeed, you lift of the gas you depress the clutch and only get back on the gas after you have selected the new gear and re-engaged the clutch - well, in reality you're getting back on the gas in parallel with re-engaging the clutch, but anyway.

This applies to changing up through the box becuase when you select a higher gear, naturally the revs will be lower in the new gear.

Downshifts are a whole different ball game as the revs are higher after a downshift and you need to blip thr throttle and /or use heel and toe if you are braking at the same time. But that's getting ahead of ourselves.

Getting back on message, if you spend too long changing gear, obviously the revs will drop. The solution for upshifts is not to "get on the gas more" or to blip the throttle, it's to speed up your gear changes.

Meir · 01-03-2013, 04:28 PM

Main is a 01 S with 77k.
My neighbor has a 99 base with 150k that shifts 10 times better then main.
So I'm sure with the new clutch and engine mount I'll be good.
In your case, I believe the clutch is still fine at 54k (assuming the car was not abused) but the rubber mount can be shot after 12 years.
Problem is, to insect it you will need to remove it.
Not a very hard job if you have some thec skills.
The mount itself goes for around 110$.

jacabean · 01-03-2013, 04:39 PM

after your motor mount is done you might want to upgrade to the 997 shifter assembly. i replaced mine at 50k and the shifting is much smoother .

kk2002s · 01-03-2013, 04:49 PM

Also being from NJ and the cold we are currently seeing, there will be stiff shifting initially until everything warms up. Especially 1 to 2. I have 02 s w/56K. This would be the 6 speed. I think shifting at 2k is a bit low, even when things are cold. In the cold, I shift in the 2500 to 2700 range for the first several shifts, then move up around 3k. Once the mechanicals warm up, then boxsters shift so sweet well past 4k. Not sure about the Base motor but I feel that the 3.2 RPMs drop very quick during the shift cycle. If you take a long time to shift into the next gear, you will need to tap the gas to get the RPMs up to match. That is the dance between the gas and the clutch. I also agree that quick shifts make it so much smoother in the lower RPM shifts. Again cold weather makes initial shifting slow so this really only works when things are warmed up and more fluid. As has been said on many posts, Boxsters love to sing at high RPMs

rondocap · 01-03-2013, 04:54 PM

Thank you guys, a lot of good information. My next step is to further practice my shifting to make it a bit quicker and smooth, hopefully that should solve this issue.

The hardest part for me was the initial 1st gear from a stop, but now I am getting the hang of it and have not stalled much.

AKnowles · 01-03-2013, 05:01 PM

For my 2 cents worth, I have driven many manual transmission vehicles, and when you try to be smooth you invariably fail. Best advice I have is to not be self-consicience about it. Just do it.

It is also hardest to shift at lower RPMs. If you wnt to practive your shifting, you can start with shifting smooth right at 1000/13000 RPM to get the car moving. It will start to bog as the clutch enages, but if you add a little gas, the shift will be smooth and the car will start moving. Without excessive slipping I might add. This will teach you where the clutch enages and when it is fully enaged. This can help you find the "sweet" spot for later shifts.

shadrach74 · 01-03-2013, 05:17 PM

Try being faster with your shifts, as in move the stick and clutch faster. Many newbs focus so much on what they're doing that they never get past the mechanical movements into a more fluid motion; many let the revs drop too much on up shifts and not enough or too much on down shifts.

If you're in an S model it will be even more difficult to master, as the gear ratios are not evenly spaced; the lower gears are taller ratios and the uppers are relatively close ratio, beig ~600 rpm apart...

Do not feel bad, I've driven non synchro trannies that were easier to drive smoothly than my S. I do however find that my smoothest shifts are my most aggressive.

Like others, I suspect that my engine mount has gone "TU" and is big part of the problem... I just bought a Schnell short shift kit and a new engine mount. When its all in place, if it's 70% as good as the 6spd in my GF's MCS, I'll be happy. Right now it feels completely unrefined compared to the Mini/BMW product, and that's after I put a solid flywheel in the MCS...that's saying something.

EDIT- I see while I was typing this on my tablet (takes a while), others rang in with the same advice...so there must be something to faster and more fluid...

shadrach74 · 01-03-2013, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rondocap

Thank you guys, a lot of good information. My next step is to further practice my shifting to make it a bit quicker and smooth, hopefully that should solve this issue.

The hardest part for me was the initial 1st gear from a stop, but now I am getting the hang of it and have not stalled much.

Go to a level parking lot and practice getting underway at idle with nothing but the clutch... No throttle! Just get very familiar with where the clutch grabs. Once you can do that, add a bit of throttle, and then a bit more...and so on.

1olddude · 01-03-2013, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jacabean

after your motor mount is done you might want to upgrade to the 997 shifter assembly. i replaced mine at 50k and the shifting is much smoother .

I have a 2002 S. how difficult/expensive is the upgrade to the 997 shifter assembly? If it makes a big difference I may be interested in doing that. My car only has 14,000 miles so I think the mounts should be good unless they died from old age like me!

shadrach74 · 01-03-2013, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1olddude

I have a 2002 S. how difficult/expensive is the upgrade to the 997 shifter assembly? If it makes a big difference I may be interested in doing that. My car only has 14,000 miles so I think the mounts should be good unless they died from old age like me!

Mounts are likely age related more than mileage... I bought the schnell kit that reduces throws by 30% IIRC. I have not installed it yet but it appears well engineered and nicely fabbed. I also like that the stalk itself is a bit shorter as well...

Meir · 01-03-2013, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1olddude

I have a 2002 S. how difficult/expensive is the upgrade to the 997 shifter assembly? If it makes a big difference I may be interested in doing that. My car only has 14,000 miles so I think the mounts should be good unless they died from old age like me!

It is not to hard and you can find it on eBay for 100-150$ used.
I installed the 50$ top speed SS kit. It didn't make the shifting much better for me, but it is much more "tight" and accurate, if I can describe it that way.
Defenetly one of the best modes to do on your car.
I do need to apply more force to shift, but it's not sloppy as the original, much shorter throw, and a lot of fun.

Meir · 01-03-2013, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rondocap

Thank you guys, a lot of good information. My next step is to further practice my shifting to make it a bit quicker and smooth, hopefully that should solve this issue.

The hardest part for me was the initial 1st gear from a stop, but now I am getting the hang of it and have not stalled much.

Another option for you, is to find a local friend on the forum that will take your car for a spin. Or even better let you ride his

Then you know for sure if something wrong with your car.

dbear61 · 01-04-2013, 05:38 PM

I would think a medical forum would be more appropriate for discussing problems with shifting, but oh well.

Whenever I have difficulty shifting, I eat about a dozen prunes or take a good laxative. Within a short time, my shifts are as smooth as ever.

Don't overdo it, though, or you'll be shifting almost non-stop the rest of the day and won't be able to wander very far from the bathroom.

Oh... wait... shifting? Ohhhhhh. Never mind.

Hey, just trying to make you feel at home.

As others have stated, practice, practice, practice. I've been driving stick for over 30 years and after my first five months of owning a Boxster, I still don't shift smoothly every time.

Welcome aboard, and have fun!

Bear

rondocap · 01-04-2013, 05:40 PM

I did as you guys suggested, and made my shift motion overall faster than before - and it seems to have done the trick. Even at higher RPM, the car is shifting smoother now that my shifts are faster. I think before i was holding on to it too long and the rpms would drop.

After 2 weeks driving, I feel much more confident. The first week was rough though, a lot of stalling, and being anxious at lights plus unsmooth shifts.

Hopefully it will get better and better with practice! I can even do a nice downshift sometimes.

Heel to toe I will leave for later, lol.

particlewave · 01-04-2013, 05:43 PM

I had the same issue at first. I think it's also just a matter of getting to know the car. On slower shifts, rev matching helps a lot, too.
I'm so used to it that I don't even notice that I'm doing it anymore

rondocap · 01-04-2013, 05:45 PM

What do you guys do at stop lights? I anxiously try to read the other side and predict when it will turn green, so I have time to go from neutral to 1st and get ready.

If I wait to shift to first when the light turns green, it takes me a couple of seconds because I have to go to first, and slowly release the clutch so I don't stall. An automatic can just hit the gas and go, but we have a few extra steps.

So what do you do or think is best?

particlewave · 01-04-2013, 05:51 PM

I do the neutral to first thing as well, but I goose the throttle little bit to get the rpm's at about 1200-1500 before releasing the clutch. This usually yields a nice smooth takeoff, though hills can be a little more tricky. On a steep hill, I'll usually hold the e-break up with the button depressed to keep from rolling back any.