What you think of the Z4 M?

[tmc]

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=107689

I must admit, it's tempting. The one big flaw with the Z4 was the all-electronic steering, and it seems that Group M has scrapped that in favor of a power-assisted hydrolic unit. The styling still looks like a suit someone slept in, but it is not as bad as the original Z4.

Is it a 987S killer? 3300 lbs (Z4 M) vs ~3000 lbs (987S), but 343 hp vs. 280 hp. Probably 0-60 in about 0.3sec less than the box S, from what I've read so far.

tmc
(who just traded an M3 to buy a 987S)

[limoncello]

I looked seriously at the Z3's before buying my Boxster.
Styling - I really liked the Z3's, thought I might warm up to the Z4 (it would grow on me), but it hasn't really. It's just not a "beautiful" car.
Power - seems more than ample in the M. Should fly.
Brakes - even if "upgraded", hard to believe they will be a match for the Boxster.
Handling - same as above. Low CG and balance win.
Ownership - there are a lot more BMW dealers and garages than Porsche, maybe easier to take care of it.
In the end, I chose Boxster, & still would today.

[tmc]

limoncello,

I agree completely about the Z3, which had a horribly loose frame. But the Z4 is a different car. You should drive one. You will discover the two negatives are the steering (it's all electronic and not up to the usual BMW standards) and the harsh ride on the run flat tires. BMW M Group seems to have addressed the first of these by swapping the steering for a more conventional power-assisted hydrolic unit. So I am curious as hell whether or not the Z4 M will slay a Boxster S.

Not sure why I care but that I juuuust bought a 987S after deciding it was the absolute best roadster out there (outside of exotics).

tmc

[Brucelee]

I liked everything about the z3 save the horribly cheap materials on the interior. The M interior on that car was better but if I had one (I may buy one again someday), I would pull most of the interior for a custom job.

The M version of that car ran very nicely thank you and was pretty easy to mod up the power, handling.

Used ones (regular z3s that is) are now quite cheap and it really is a fun car.

Nice compare and contrast to the Box.

[KShep]

Article here...Germans know how to build sports cars. Can't get used to the BMW styling but 343hp is for real.

http://www.germancarfans.com/news.cfm/newsid/2051025.002/page/1/lang/eng/bmw/1.html

[Perfectlap]

Mid Engine: There is no substitute.

[grease]

The M Roadster was much more of a sports car than the Z4 will ever be. Z4 had zero feedback through steering and felt like driving an American car. The M roadster you could do remarkable things with. too bad the interior and outside mirror location was for short folks only -I would have bought one.

[tmc]

I think there's some confusion in this thread. The Z4 M is not a 2.5i nor 3.0i Z4, it's a new car based on the Z4. BMW Motorsport Division (Group M) reworks BMW production models and delivers souped up versions in lower production volumes. Mercedes' equivalent is their AMG division. There is no Porsche equivalent per se, but the "S" badge (e.g., Boxster S) is roughly equivalent to M.

Group M had made an M version of the Z3, called the M Roadster. It had two Group M-designed engines over its lifetime, the S52 and the S54. The latter is the (now both famous and infamous) engine that's also in the E46 M3. It produces 333 HP from a naturally-asperated 3.2L engine (note: >100HP per liter is a Group M hallmark).

There had long been a rumor that BMW would take their 2001-released Z4 frame and have Group M rework it. But the rumors also included a pause, because the sales of the original Z3-based M Roadster were very low. BMW stated flatly "there will be no Z4-based M Roadster."

That was, until last week.

My hunch is that the Z4 M Roadster is positioned to react to the strong sales of the 05-06 Boxster S / 987S and also the successful launch of the new MB SLK AMG. The original Z4 3.0i (non-M) had performance roughly equivalent to a 986 Boxster non-S. The S version was not a high volume competitor to the Z4 3.0i in BMW's view. But again, 987S's are selling very well. Porsche hit one out of the park.

So BMW's reaction is this:
* Z4 frame
* New steering rack that, from what I can find out, is thought to be the same rack as used in the E46 M3
* Limited slip differential
* A further souped up version of the S54 engine to bring it from 333HP to 343HP
* Cosmetic changes (such as new fender flares, new domed hood, new "carbon look" interior, etc.) Honestly, I think they make the Z4 frame look very aggressive and all-in-all less ugly, but still only "less ugly"

What does this mean to Porsche drivers? Probably not much. However, if I were still in the market for a new top-performing roadster, the Z4 M Roadster would give me great pause.

tmc

[Rail26]

It is still a BMW and it is still a Z4 chassis no matter what kind of engine they put in it.

By my calculations BMW + Z4 + M(badge) < My Box therefore: My Box = Wow!

I drove the Z3 and the M3 and did not like either one. I can't explain the way the Box feels, but damn man, it just feels better! You know? The difference between the P cars and the BMW/MB line is that we built our cars around the engines and suspension, we don't need to constantly shoe horn bigger and bigger engines into the cars. The other day I was smoked by a Mustang Cobra in about a 1.4 mile before a hairpin turn...However, I hit that turn without letting up the gas, flew by him and kept toolin' on down the road. He almost slid off the road.

[Brucelee]

No question that the Box handling is superior to a z3. Seems this also pertains to an M Roadster but I have never owned one so I can't say.

[tmc]

Rail26,

A Z3 was based on the E36 frame and is a completely different car at every level than a Z4, which is in turn not the same as a Z4 M Roadster. Driving a Z3 or a Z3M (Z3 M roadster) tells you nothing about the Z4 nor the Z4 M Roadster any more than driving, for example, a 993 would tell you how a 997 handles.

I drove both the Z4 and the 987S when I was in the market. The Z4 is a very capable car. It handles in some ways better than a 987S, notably better in the body rigidity category. Its steering is numb, and the run flats make going over rough road an uncontrolled experience. The new Z4 M fixes the steering. It still has run flats, so I am curious to find out if they have compensated in the suspension somehow. And it has one thing the Boxster S does not have: limited-slip differential. In my opinion, a real track car should have LSD, and I was surprised (and it gave me great pause) to discover the 987 does not even offer it.

I believe BMW can produce fine automobiles and so can Porsche. BMW's forte is more sport sedans than roadsters. But I do think Porsche will have to react to the Z4 M Roadster. My guess is they will drop the 3.4L version of the M96 engine into the Boxster S (i.e., the same engine as what's in the Cayman S). I hope Porsche considers adding LSD as an option. If they do those two things, I will trade my current 05 987S for this (hypothetical) new car in an flash (modulo major cash loss for depreciation).

tmc

[ljd-924se]

Originally Posted by tmc

Rail26,

. . . In my opinion, a real track car should have LSD, and I was surprised (and it gave me great pause) to discover the 987 does not even offer it . . . I hope Porsche considers adding LSD as an option . . .

tmc

I share the same sentiment. However, I don't expect to see a factory LSD available for the boxster/cayman any time soon. Thanks to the weight distribution of the mid-engine layout, slipping the inside rear tire does not occur nearly often enough to warrant an LSD. . . at least that's what porsche seems to think. Whereas, the front-engine Z4M has much less mass holding the rear tires to the ground, and a good deal more power.

If you are willing to spend, quaiffe and guards both have LSD options available for boxsters. Quaiffe specializes in 'torsen' type LSD's that transfer power according to torque , and Guards specializes in 'clutch' type LSD's that transfer power according to relative wheel speed.

The following quote is from a thread on renntech.org by the owner of a boxster with the 'torquey-er' 3.4L 996 engine. . .
Limited Slip Differential, Performance Improvement

"Last Sunday we drove the car for the first time with the LSD and what a ride!
It was the last PCA-LPR autoX of the season with 47 drivers with around 35 cars. The results have not been posted yet but we may have run 2nd and 3rd over all with a ultra light full race 914 in first place. I can tell you there were some 911's working very hard to beat the Monster Boxster. But the real credit goes to the Quaife torque biasing differential, we accelerated faster and corner much faster.

You can view Quaife's web site:
http://www.quaifeamerica.com/

Three parts were purchased from Patrick Motorsports in Phoenix: 1. Quaife Torque Biasing Differential, 2. Side Cover, 3. Bearing. Total with shipping $1,827.51.

This is the best single mod that I have done in terms of performance improvement."