Fuel Injector Cleaner?

[Adam]

Bottom line...if I use 93 oct gas all the time do I need to worry about this?

[MNBoxster]

Originally Posted by Adam

Bottom line...if I use 93 oct gas all the time do I need to worry about this?

Hi,

Well, Yes and NO. It depends upon where you buy your Gas - look for the busiest, Name Brand, Station you can find as they are constantly emptying their Tanks and so there's less contamination build-up. Also, if you drive daily, this delays the need to clean the injectors.

But, realize that these OTC Products are limited in how well they can clean your Fuel System, they're much better as once a year treatments to prevent a problem rather than cure one.

The best product is a commercial kit from 3M which sells for something like $150. In it, there is an adapter to hook into the Fuel Rail to which you attach an aerosol can filled with their Cleaner, mostly their own mix of polyether amines and Techron. You screw this Can onto the adapter, pull the Fuel Pump fuse and start the car. The Car runs exclusively on the contents of the Aerosol can for about 3 min at idle and then quits as the Can is exhausted and your injectors are clean. See it here: http://products3.3m.com/catalog/us/en001/auto_marine_aero/automotive_aftermarket/node_GSRTBL245Qgs/root_GST1T4S9TCgv/vroot_GSLPLPKL4Xge/bgel_QF2T43N7Q7bl/gvel_GSJX1THS8Hgl/theme_us_aad_3_0/command_AbcPageHandler/output_html

I have used this system and it works quite well. Hope this helps...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

[trube78]

Jim sums it up pretty well.

1. Always use premium fuel (91 to 93 Octane in the states.) If you must use less than premium, try not to fill up and fill up with premium as soon as possible -- this prevents engine knock.

2. Pick a good gas with a good detergent, the links give some recommendations but there are others

http://www.toptiergas.com/retailers.html
http://autorepair.about.com/od/generalinfo/a/110305.htm

If all you want is the low down stop and read no more.

If you are using a local gas say sheetz, liberty, Wawa, Racetrack, etc. They may not have the best detergents added and probably add the minimum additives for compliance with existing laws. In those cases a good system cleaner should be used about once a year. In the tank, techron concentrate is about the best -- Chevron has some others that are cheaper (Pro-Guard) with less Techron. There are others but beware of cleaners that are mostly kerosene or Naptha spirits. If it costs $2 it probably is kerosene.

The 3m system Jim mentions is the great but costly. For $150 for the kit and about $20 for the refills you can use Chevron Techron Gas exclusively for a few years or about 10 years worth of techron concentrate twice a year. But if you know someone who has one ... it is the way to go. Some service centers use them and charge about $40-50 for a one time cleaning.

Final note some local gas companies (here in VA, Wawa and Sheetz) are low on detergent additives but have other advantages. Most Sheetz and WaWa's are relatively new with the best state of the art pumps and tanks. The pumps actually monitor the gas for particulate and water and will shut down and or switch supply tanks if they exceed the allowed specification. Rumor is that Sheetz has been trying to license with Chevron or Citgo to use their detergents (Texaco merged with chevron in 2001 and began using techron in 2005.) Because they are a volume seller, the appropriate seasonal formula is usually readily available while some "name" stations do not cycle out their tanks as frequently.

hope this helps,
ATB,
Tom

[Adam]

Thanks for your help Jim and Trube. Very informative stuff! One more quick question, I live out here in cornville where some of gas stations put in 10% ethanal in the 93 oct gas. Aside from being more environmently friendly, is there any reason to choose or not choose this gas over the standard stuff? I think Jim said alcohol has less engergy than gas(but I couldn't find it). That had me thinking about alcohol powered dragsters lol. Those things rip pretty good and run on about 100% alcohol right? Also, would ethal alcohol work as a solvent as well to clean out the system?....I know it cleans me out when I drink it. Thanks again for the help guys.

[MNBoxster]

Originally Posted by Adam

Thanks for your help Jim and Trube. Very informative stuff! One more quick question, I live out here in cornville where some of gas stations put in 10% ethanal in the 93 oct gas. Aside from being more environmently friendly, is there any reason to choose or not choose this gas over the standard stuff? I think Jim said alcohol has less engergy than gas(but I couldn't find it). That had me thinking about alcohol powered dragsters lol. Those things rip pretty good and run on about 100% alcohol right? Also, would ethal alcohol work as a solvent as well to clean out the system?....I know it cleans me out when I drink it. Thanks again for the help guys.

Hi,

Dragsters use Methanol it because it has a Very High Octane Rating, about 120 Octane. This allows them to use a Very High Compression Ratio in their Engines - greater than 15:1, without Detonating. This allows these Monsters to make the 1,000's of HP that they do. But, they also get about 0.0625 MPG.

The same is True of Ethanol. Higher Octane, less Energy. Ethanol is a HydroCarbon like Gasoline, but it has less Energy (read Work) than Gasoline by about 10%. Your MPG would suffer a similar drop.

Aside from this, there are other considerations such as it's volatility - Much easier to ignite - could be an issue in a Collision or even a Fill-Up. And, it's Flame is nearly Colorless, making it especially Dangerous.

During the Turbo Days in F1, they used Fuel which was 85% Tolulene (Octane Rating - 114). This allowed them to use Turbo Boosts in the 5 BAR (73.5PSI) Range without Detonating. These 1.5 Liter Engines produced as much as 1,250 bhp. The Rules restricted Fuel Octane to 102, so to comply, Teams laced their Toluene with either Regular Pump Gas, or n-heptane (Octane Rating - 0) to lower the Fuel Rating to meet the Spec.

To sumarize, you can run a Higher Compression Ratio, making more Power, using a High Octane Fuels such as Methanol/Ethanol, but you burns lots more Fuel doing it. Hope this helps...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

[trube78]

Adam,

My guess is you may not have a choice in a few years. The additive MBTE is banned in 25 states and ethanol is the most likely replacement. Some states (I think Minnesota for one) require ethanol gasoline. The largest advantages of ethanol is that it replaces gasoline, could be cheap to make, and is somewhat renewable since it comes from corn. Other advantages are less certain. It could be a cleaner but there are better ones out there. It does increase octane. And in the winter it mixes with water to keep your gas dry. It does not ignite as well as gasoline so cold starting with higher blends can be a problem in winter. And there are more advantages and disadvantages being argued. Is it cleaner, what about the energy used to make it, etc.

Today, cars sold in the US are made to use gasohol to at least 10% and 15% is the new blend being touted -- for flexible fuel vehicles -- whatever that means. So there should be no problem using it.

ATB,
Tom

[Adam]

I've learned alot more about about fuel from this thread. Excellent thread. Thanks guys. I have to agree with you Trube, the push for more eco-friendly fuels in the future could have an adverse affect on the quality/performance and we'll have to use whatever the government madates.

hi guys

very good threads and extremely informative, was looking at a fuel injector cleaner bottle today made by STP, on the content it did not mention toluene or techron but only kerosene, is kerosene working the same way? here kerosene is the cheaper and cleaner fuel that is used for home heating instalation.