Porsche 1 hour Crashed Unsure Why Can you help?

[ginge]

Hi

I had a Porsche Boxster 99 reg for a couple of days, yes a couple of days, I will explain in the best detail possible. I was driving, not at a significant speed as it was Bank Holiday and I was going into a seaside town so traffic was busy not heavy but moving about 40mph, the road conditions, well it was slightly wet but was not raining at the time , I was going completely round a roundabout to go back on myself (as I had missed the turn off), I accelerated as I was coming off the roundabout when suddenly the rear end shot out, I tried to correct this and couldn't the car spun across the road about 10ft, and hit a curb.
There was not a scratch on the actual car and the grass verge was only slightly damaged (I think where I was trying to get back off the grass).

I tried to drive the car but couldn't. A motorist pointed out my headlight had fallen out. I picked this up off the road and drove about 5 yards thinking all was ok, ( as it wasn't a bad accident). I could here vibrations so I pulled over onto the grass verge. I thought it was something under the car but it wasn't. When the recovery vehicle came he checked the car, as I said the paintwork wasn't scratched at all but the rear wheel drivers side was virtually hanging off.

This is the damage I have been advised is wrong my mate tells me there is no way I was not speeding due to the amount of damage, I can assure you I wasn't hence why I am after a bit of advice, how all this damage could possibly happen.

Are you ready?

Sub Frame Snapped,
Both driveshafts broken,
Rear Wheel Hub broken in two,
Radiator Bent,
Both wheels damaged driver side,
Headlight broken,
Both Wheel Arches Covers broken,

And a few other bits and pieces. Been told at the moment no reverse gear but this worked after I curbed the car as I had to reverse slightly for the recovery truck.

Any advice would be appreciated.

[husker boxster]

I'm not clear on what advice you're looking for.

If you're wondering how you could have caused that much damage from a simple spin out, it's quite possible. You don't say how fast you were going at the time of the spin, but even a "slow" 15mph would be enough to do that much damage. Porsches were not designed to stop sideways into curbs using the wheels as the stopping mechanism.

There are plenty of threads here about people who lost their Boxsters on wet or damp roads. It happens. With the amount of damage you've listed, you may have totaled your car. You may want to look into a 987 with PSM - Porsche Stability Mgnt, which is a computer system to assist when things get going sideways. It's also known as Please Save Me!

Good luck with your situation.

[ginge]

Originally Posted by husker boxster

I'm not clear on what advice you're looking for.

If you're wondering how you could have caused that much damage from a simple spin out, it's quite possible. You don't say how fast you were going at the time of the spin, but even a "slow" 15mph would be enough to do that much damage. Porsches were not designed to stop sideways into curbs using the wheels as the stopping mechanism.

There are plenty of threads here about people who lost their Boxsters on wet or damp roads. It happens. With the amount of damage you've listed, you may have totaled your car. You may want to look into a 987 with PSM - Porsche Stability Mgnt, which is a computer system to assist when things get going sideways. It's also known as Please Save Me!

Good luck with your situation.

I would envisage about 15mph, I understand Porsches aren't designed to go sideways, just wandering how on earth, I could total the car only driving slow. Thanks for the advice though, truly appreciated, at least in my head now I know this can happen. TBH I posted as my mate, whom I had the car on test drive from blatantly thinks I was speeding and I know I wasn't.

[Frodo]

What kind of shape are your rear tires in? Good tread or not? Sort of irrelevant at this point I guess, but I just wonder if wet road + balding tires + accelerating in a turn all conspired to do you in. Sorry for your predicament---with that damage in a '99, it would seem dangerously close to totaled. Have you gotten estimates?

[Spinnaker]

Just a guess, but from your list of broken items, I notice that you state that both drive shafts are broken. Not sure if it is possible to break both drive shafts from only getting hit on one side, so I theorize that a drive shaft may have broken as you were exiting the roundabout and that is what caused you to slide into the curb.

[ginge]

Originally Posted by Frodo

What kind of shape are your rear tires in? Good tread or not? Sort of irrelevant at this point I guess, but I just wonder if wet road + balding tires + accelerating in a turn all conspired to do you in. Sorry for your predicament---with that damage in a '99, it would seem dangerously close to totaled. Have you gotten estimates?

£3k up to now, so I think it is totalled. I don't think anything was wrong with the tread.

[ginge]

Originally Posted by Spinnaker

Just a guess, but from your list of broken items, I notice that you state that both drive shafts are broken. Not sure if it is possible to break both drive shafts from only getting hit on one side, so I theorize that a drive shaft may have broken as you were exiting the roundabout and that is what caused you to slide into the curb.

I have to be honest and say I do not know much about cars, especially Porsches do they have more than one driveshaft (I know I have listed this but I have listed what the garage has said). How common is it for a drive shaft to break, bearing in mind the Porsche was 12 years old? I would also like to Thank you for your response.

[shadrach74]

Boxsters are built to be light weight and handle curves. The are not that stout in terms of durability. I have learned this the hard way as well. I bottomed my car out on an unfamiliar back road. It did not feel that bad, but when I went to shift, I realized something was not right. In my case both lower tranny mount bosses cracked. The tranny came to rest on top of the rear sub frame. Porcshe in it's infinite wisdom cast the bosses into the case, and do not make that part of the case available so the only option is to install a new/used tranny. The impact also destroyed all 4 CV boots. So I here ya, I had my Box for all of 2 months when it happened. The only good thing is that it forced my hand on the IMS as it did not make sense not to do it when the tranny was being replace. Keep in mind that my Tranny was never impacted, it was strictly inertia that did the damage.

What you did was a blunt impact to the car in an area and from an angle in which it was not designed to take a blow. I am not surprised at all that it suffered the damage you mentioned.

Light weight, rear drive cars should be driven with care in anything but bone dry conditions. A quick light rain will make the roads very slick because it's just enough to release some oil from the surface of the pavement but not enought to wash it away. Be careful out there!

[shadrach74]

Originally Posted by ginge

I have to be honest and say I do not know much about cars, especially Porsches do they have more than one driveshaft (I know I have listed this but I have listed what the garage has said). How common is it for a drive shaft to break, bearing in mind the Porsche was 12 years old? I would also like to Thank you for your response.

I believe that your mechanic is referring to the axle shafts on your car as the tranny is a one piece trans-axle. The drive between the differential and transmission that we normally think of as a drive shaft is inside the transmission case.

[tonycarreon]

Originally Posted by ginge

TBH I posted as my mate, whom I had the car on test drive from blatantly thinks I was speeding and I know I wasn't.

this is probably the most painful part. took the car on a test drive and possibly totaled it. hopefully your friend is a good one...

[ginge]

Originally Posted by shadrach74

I believe that your mechanic is referring to the axle shafts on your car as the tranny is a one piece trans-axle. The drive between the differential and transmission that we normally think of as a drive shaft is inside the transmission case.

Is this possible for it too snap just driving around a roundabout?

[shadrach74]

Originally Posted by ginge

Is this possible for it too snap just driving around a roundabout?

Doubtful, but anything's possible. I doubt the shaft itself is snapped, likely the joint at one end. I would have likely started making quite a racket long before it broke. Even if it was something internal to the trans-axle, it would have likely given an aural warning.

The majority of these cars do not have limited slip diffs, which makes them even more of a handful in the wet. It is not hard at all to break the rear end loose in damp/wet conditions. once it goes, if the driver gets off the gas, it just exacerbates the issue. The only chance of saving it is to modulate the throttle and steer into the slide. Not an easy task in a split second and not something you think about. It has to be a natural/muscle memory type of reaction and that only comes from practicing...in an area that is curb and obstacle free.

[Ghostrider 310]

shadrach74 Is on point, I lost an X19 on an off ramp at 19, (had all different brands of tires on it for those interested). Once you lose a mid engine you never forget it, it spins in a unique way and recovery is twitchy. I stored that experience and have always been gentle with all Porsche cars in the wet. I have also not pushed the spyder anywhere near as hard as the 986 in a corner yet as I am still learning the car characteristics.

Based on the accident you described it doesn't sound totaled if you get a roller donor car and do the work.

[Frodo]

Originally Posted by Ghostrider 310

shadrach74 Is on point, I lost an X19 on an off ramp at 19, (had all different brands of tires on it for those interested). Once you lose a mid engine you never forget it, it spins in a unique way and recovery is twitchy. I stored that experience and have always been gentle with all Porsche cars in the wet.

On point as well. I've posted this before, but I'll post it again: The above warning goes TRIPLE if you're on summer performance tires and if it's both wet and cold. I've done it and had no time to recover---had my ass end in front in the blink of an eye. Was not even accelerating in a turn---was moving in a straight line, going up a gentle slope and punched it ever-so-slightly. That's all it took.

I won't say that I never drive with summer tires when it's cold, but I definitely take it easy. And if there's even a trace of dampness on the road, I drive like a Granny.

[stephen wilson]

A loose condition is definately recoverable, in all conditions, it just takes some practice

[seningen]

Originally Posted by stephen wilson

A loose condition is definately recoverable, in all conditions, it just takes some practice

My wife took my S for a "spin" one day. Fortunately she missed everything.
Managed to even stop conveniently without punching the fence and enough
dry ground to allow me to drive along the gulley and get it out of there.

Hard to appreciate from the photo -- but it's a good 20' drop off.

Amazingly nothing but pride and ego were damaged.



I've since had the back end twitch on me at the same spot she lost it, but
with much less exiting results.

Once you fix it up -- goto an HPDE and get a feel for car control and really enjoy that Boxster.

Mike

[seningen]

Originally Posted by ginge

Hi

I had a Porsche Boxster 99 reg for a couple of days, yes a couple of days, I will explain in the best detail possible. I was driving, not at a significant speed as it was Bank Holiday and I was going into a seaside town so traffic was busy not heavy but moving about 40mph, the road conditions, well it was slightly wet but was not raining at the time , I was going completely round a roundabout to go back on myself (as I had missed the turn off), I accelerated as I was coming off the roundabout when suddenly the rear end shot out, I tried to correct this and couldn't the car spun across the road about 10ft, and hit a curb.
There was not a scratch on the actual car and the grass verge was only slightly damaged (I think where I was trying to get back off the grass).

I tried to drive the car but couldn't. A motorist pointed out my headlight had fallen out. I picked this up off the road and drove about 5 yards thinking all was ok, ( as it wasn't a bad accident). I could here vibrations so I pulled over onto the grass verge. I thought it was something under the car but it wasn't. When the recovery vehicle came he checked the car, as I said the paintwork wasn't scratched at all but the rear wheel drivers side was virtually hanging off.

This is the damage I have been advised is wrong my mate tells me there is no way I was not speeding due to the amount of damage, I can assure you I wasn't hence why I am after a bit of advice, how all this damage could possibly happen.

Are you ready?

Sub Frame Snapped,
Both driveshafts broken,
Rear Wheel Hub broken in two,
Radiator Bent,
Both wheels damaged driver side,
Headlight broken,
Both Wheel Arches Covers broken,

And a few other bits and pieces. Been told at the moment no reverse gear but this worked after I curbed the car as I had to reverse slightly for the recovery truck.

Any advice would be appreciated.

I probably have most of those parts from my used 2001 S or 2000 Base that I am parting out.

No idea how much to ship to UK from Texas -- but otherwise I can save you a bundle.

email me at mike@lonestarrpm.com if you are interested.

[Brucelee]

This thread seems a tad suspicious to me. A word of caution if any transactions are about to take place involving money, parts etc.

I hope I am wrong.

[ferrytrip1]

I did something simliar 3 years ago - wanted a boxster forever, took one for a drive on a foggy damp December day. Spun it leaving a roundabout, mounted the grassy kerb and hit a lamppost side on. Mostly front 1/4 damge to wing, raditor etc. £3k damage and I bought the car as I had bent it. Sold it straight away, but it was an expensive test drive.

I learnt 2 things, the power of the boxster needs to be understood in bad road conditions to prevent the back end coming round, alway check insurance state when test driving. Oh and make sure spouse is rewarded for not complaining too much about the cost that we had nothing to show for.

[Frodo]

Originally Posted by stephen wilson

A loose condition is definately recoverable, in all conditions, it just takes some practice

Yeah, I think that's true in the large majority of cases. Have to admit to one handicap that evening: did have a Dewers (ONE) under my belt at the time, never a problem before when things that I've experienced before behind the wheel happen to me---and I've been driving a lotta years (40+). But this I'd never experienced in the Box before. The summer tires were cold---I guess it was in the low-40s, and with the precip on the road (it wasn't raining when I left home), it seemed like they become hard, inflexible, slick. My tread was very good. There was nowhere near enough water on the road for hydroplaning to be an issue (especially with the deep tread). As noted, it was a pretty half-hearted acceleration producing the spin-out---I don't think I was doing any more than maybe 30 mph. And (I failed to mention in my earlier post) I did counter-steer properly. BUT I suppose, with the scotch on board, that response was probably a few microseconds slower than it would otherwise have been.

But this was VERY different than anything I had experienced before. I have, in a pretty major way, broken the tail end loose in the Box before and, using the accelerator as well as the steering wheel, have been able to recover just fine. This time was different, like some big hand reached down and gave my rear end a sudden hard shove sideways. Nevertheless, when I counter-steered I was FULLY CONFIDENT it would correct, a confidence that likewise was measurable in microseconds. As always, correcting a problem such as this is a matter not only of doing the right things, but also doing them in a timely fashion! Live and learn...