Upshifting and Downshifting

[NNH]

Originally Posted by 986President

...
Any wisdom on sitting at a stoplight on a slope with cars jammed in behind you and trying to avoid the car from rolling back?

Thanks in advance.

Do the same thing as Europeans, use the handbrake/e-brake:
Stop the car, put on the handbrake before shifting into neutral
When preparing to start, push the clutch in, move the stick to 1st, then use gas and clutch to find the biting point, before taking off the handbrake to move smoothly away. This is actually a compulsory part of the British driving test.

I have been holding the car in place on a slope by finding the "biting point" or letting the clutch out just enough to hold the car on the incline. I did not know to use the parking break or hand break. I assume that by using the hand break you are taking some stress off the clutch.

[NNH]

Originally Posted by 986President

I have been holding the car in place on a slope by finding the "biting point" or letting the clutch out just enough to hold the car on the incline. I did not know to use the parking break or hand break. I assume that by using the hand break you are taking some stress off the clutch.

Yes, it keeps the clutch from overheating and wearing: I've had clutches last way past 100,000 miles by being careful with them like this, whereas my brother does things differently and has trashed 3 clutches in the last 3 years...

[eslai]

Originally Posted by 986President

I have been holding the car in place on a slope by finding the "biting point" or letting the clutch out just enough to hold the car on the incline. I did not know to use the parking break or hand break. I assume that by using the hand break you are taking some stress off the clutch.

Oh yeah, that's the surefire way to need a $700 clutch job within a year. Don't do it, you're burning up your clutch!

[deliriousga]

Originally Posted by 986President

I have been holding the car in place on a slope by finding the "biting point" or letting the clutch out just enough to hold the car on the incline. I did not know to use the parking break or hand break. I assume that by using the hand break you are taking some stress off the clutch.

I'm not sure if you're talking about doing that when starting to go or while sitting on an incline. Doing that while sitting at a light will wear the clutch disc out really quick. It also stresses the engine, drive shaft and flywheel.

IMHO it's best to learn to get it quick so you don't have to use the brake. If you can't, using the parking brake is the next best thing.

I appreciate even what seems to many as basic advice. I learned to drive a stick 18 years ago on a VW Golf and never drove another until I got this car so I am trying to iron out bad habbits.

I am getting better at quick starts on an incline but if you are in traffic on an incline you are constantly doing quick starts and stopping after only a few feet. It seemed easier to just ease the clutch in and out to control speed and keep from rolling backwards but it sounds like I am putting undue wear on my clutch. Thanks to all for your advice.

[eslai]

Just keep in mind also that you have a lot more torque in your current car than in your old VWs. You can really punish your clutch without even feeling it.

[deliriousga]

Originally Posted by 986President

I am getting better at quick starts on an incline but if you are in traffic on an incline you are constantly doing quick starts and stopping after only a few feet.

Sometimes you just gotta do whatcha gotta do. It drives me nuts on the freeway just stop-go-stop-go. Especially when you're uphill and the guy behind you is 6" off your bumper. It may not always be the best driving conditions, but hey, I'm in a Boxster with a hot woman in the passenger seat . (when she lets me drive )

[deliriousga]

Originally Posted by 986President

I learned to drive a stick 18 years ago on a VW Golf and never drove another until I got this car so I am trying to iron out bad habbits.

Man have cars come a long way. I learned at about the same time in a delivery van (I was a L'eggs rep when first married) with a column shift 4-speed. Now that's a manly man's car!!! :dance: ROFL

[Rail26]

That was great advice! Thanks! SD987, ever thought of being a motivational speaker? The golf/driving vignettes were interesting. Would somebody now discuss rev matching?

[Rail26]

I read the included website below and think I have a vague idea of rev matching....as you are coming out of gear going to the next are you giving it some gas before you get to the next gear?

[ho2go]

Thanks for the informative post, SD987! Your explanation of physiology & pedal operation was awesome new info to me.

I've never analyzed my personal clutch takeup technique before but from what you said I know I can make some improvements. First start pivoting at the heel (larger movement) until the bite point, then use the toe/front area of my foot to fine-tune the clutch takeup from there. Nice.

[eslai]

It's funny to me when I see drivers that stomp on the clutch pedal with their entire foot. I don't see how anyone can retain any fine control without the foot anchored to the ground, but y'know, i've seen a lot of videos of rally drivers that drive that way. To each his own; they're better drivers than me so who am i to judge?

As for the question of rev-matching, yes, it's about giving the car gas between gears (when you're downshifting) so that when you put the car back in gear and let out the clutch, the input and output shafts in the tranny are spinning at matching speed and the car's balance isn't upset when the clutch reengages.

[SD987]

Just to be clear, I wasn't espousing anchoring the left foot to the floor at any point in the clutch process, I was suggesting using the left heel as a reference point even if the heel is unsupported, but I would certainly agree to each his own YMMV. In that vein, one can't discount one's feet in the process, considering that a large portion of the earth's population have foot problems. Personally, I have low, and consequently weak arches (flat feet) and need to adjust accordingly.

To respond to Rail's question, matching revs on a downshift would go clutch-in gas - gas (the first time being a blip to get the revs up, the second one being timed with the clutch release).

I did want to expand on one of the last points in my post regarding how one holds the shifter and shifts. I was over at Barnes and Noble the other day (does anyone actually buy, let alone subscribe to magazines anymore? or do they just read them at the store, like me?) and I was pleasantly surprised to see a book on performance driving. Sadly, it didn't have much "practical" advice, but the author (some racer whose name I didn't recognize, but I'm sure others would) said it wasn't till into his career did he realize the correct way to shift, and it was from driving an Audi (during Audi's stretch of dominance). He said the mental picture that worked for him was to enfold the shifter in the hand as delicately as if it was an egg, thus primarily using the other muscles in the wrist and arm to shift with while maintaining the appropriate lack of force in the hand.

If you read Golf Digest, there is this section where they have like a 3, 15 and 20+ handicap try whatever swing-tip Golf Digest is recycling that month. The section is called "I tried it" and it makes me laugh because the 20 + guy is always like, "Yeah, it worked for me" (funnier if you're a pretty decent golfer)...anyway, back to the point of the yarn, I tried the "egg" thought....and "Yeah, it worked for me". Weird thing is, not only does the shifter shift better, but the clutch engages and disengages smoother too...Pretty weird stuff, which I haven't thought of a complicated reason for yet (but give me time). But this does remind me of a sign of whether you're a good rower or not. If the shifter goes into gear as a one-syllable sound ("Chunk") you're being overly forceful with the hand muscles;...If it goes in making a two-syllable sound ("Cachunk")...that's about right.

[SD987]

Limoncello, thanks for that link, interesting reading.

I don't claim to be 'Joe-driver', and just like anyone else, my tendencies come from how I was originally taught and personal experience driving manual cars from day one. That being said, I've found the following tips to be helpful in improving performance.

In my experience the timing of the pedal movement is actually secondary to making the correct movements. What do I mean? How hard can it be to press three pedals?

Well it’s like a golf swing, if the same basic movements are done with the wrong muscle groups instead of the right ones, it’s pretty hard to hit a perfect shot, no matter how you time it. The first thing I would recommend is to actually stick your head in the footwell (preferably when no one else is around) and see how the pedals are configured; look behind the gas pedal. Automotive engineers are pretty smart people and they don't place the pedals in a car without one, consideration for human physiology and two, the time honored art of performance driving.

A. For a human to exert maximum force with their feet, involves the leg muscles motivating first the heel muscles which serve to align the primary muscle group below the arch for optimal application. Lastly the muscles toward the front of the foot below the toes fully extend to apply smaller but more precise amounts of force. When releasing that force, the heel actually starts first, down and slightly forward to serve as a pivot point of reference for the rest of the foot.

B. The brake and gas are located close to each other, obviously because the same foot controls them, but also to perform classic heel-toe shifting, in which the right foot operates both pedals simultaneously.

How does A + B translate into action?

1. The gas pedal is meant to be operated with the right half of the right foot (think of using the outside foot muscles) and pressed down and up to the right (northeasterly), oddly enough, the same direction that the pedal is pointing. If you’re someone who pushes the gas pedal straight down, with the inner/stronger foot muscles (the natural tendency), you’re going to tend to lug the engine and have difficulty. The ability to modulate the throttle response pushing as I suggest, versus straight down is night and day and essential if you were to actually give heel-toe shifting a shot.

2. Brake pedals are meant to be pushed down with the inner leg muscles and left top side of the right foot. The brake response between doing this and just jamming on the brake with your whole foot isn’t remarkable, but using that part of the foot improves switching speed between brake and gas which is key. Initial alignment of the right foot at rest should be to the brake pedal.

3. The clutch pedal is also engaged by pushing down and forward with the inner part of the left foot to maximum extension (of the arch), and is released by initiating with the heel as I mentioned above. Many drivers don’t fully extend their arch (and thus the pedal) when putting the clutch in, which is helpful to smooth shifting. The combination of the heel initiated release and relaxation of the arch muscles from full extension is engineered into the “take-up” built into the clutch pedal, i.e. the amount of required release during which little noticeable happens before the point of engagement when your primary muscle group and toes come into play. I think alot of drivers initially control the release of the clutch from the front/toe area creating labored starts, e.g. riding the clutch. Without employing the heel area as a reference point, your left foot is a ship without a rudder. These folks not surprisingly find that they shift smoother when they don’t push the clutch all the way in, just until they are below the engagement point (the clutch slip area). Because they can’t get the timing of the take-up right, they skip the whole take-up step but are reducing clutch life. Using the clutch slip area to hold yourself on a hill is even worse...

Move purposefully and with confidence. Tentative movements while driving are like decelerating your putter…However, don’t make your feet stiff as a board, otherwise you’re running counter to everything I suggested above. A bad tendency people have is to delay the gas. As soon as that gear clicks into place, apply gas. Even during what seems like a momentary delay your car is actually foundering (has no drive to the wheels) and is slowing down. People have too much pause in all gears, but mostly they seem to do this in first gear, which is the natural tendency after years of tentatively pulling out of first for fear of stalling out.

When using the shifter in the Box use your wrist muscles more than your fingers. The wrist muscles are stronger and the Porsche shifter is heavy, but more importantly the wrist muscles have a limited range of movement which also match the movements built into the shifter. If you wiggle your fingers, they can go all over the place but this is an instance where flexibility is less desirable than strength and muscle-matched engineering.

To be in optimal position for manual driving I would do a couple of things.

Unless your arms and legs are proportioned like a baboon I suggest you push yourself back a little. Most drivers I see are too close to the wheel and pedals. Move back to a point where with your arms extended, the top of the wrist joint overhangs the steering wheel; and your legs (with the clutch pedal pushed fully in) are extended but to a point well before your knees lock. Your knees should be slightly bowed out but not touching the center console (right knee). This will put you in that maximum force position when the clutch pedal is fully depressed and facilitate using the outside/right portion of the right foot when applying gas. People who sit too close are also putting themselves in real danger if the air bag is activated. Manufacturers recommend a minimum of 10 inches from the air bag.

Some readers of this post may say..."no kidding" to most of these or think I’m full of crap. That’s OK, and I'd welcome other points of view or disagreement, but maybe something we add in this thread will make someone shift smoother, launch faster and have more clutch life.

[eslai]

Originally Posted by SD987

Some readers of this post may say..."no kidding" to most of these or think I’m full of crap. That’s OK, and I'd welcome other points of view or disagreement, but maybe something we add in this thread will make someone shift smoother, launch faster and have more clutch life.

Oh I don't think so--I think there's a lot of guys here that have expressed interest in learning, your post is well-received!