Newbie on the hunt

[EricF]

Hey all, another newbie here searching for his first 986. I'm a grad student looking for a fun driver (I bike nearly everywhere at the moment, so I won't be relying on the Boxster for much other than fun weekend car for wine tasting in the valley, driving downtown, etc). I took a look at a couple cars in the LA area over the weekend, and one in particular stood out to me as an interesting case that I wanted to get a bit of input on.

It's a '97 Tiptronic, 75k mile, 3 owner weekend car. Matte gray vinyl exterior (which looked better in person that I thought it would, to be honest) over Arctic Silver base paint with 19" black BBS Staggered rims. Seller is asking $9000 for it at the moment. However, the problem is that I never got to drive it! As he was pulling the car out of the garage I noticed the back right tire was flat. Unfortunately, both rear tires were worn down almost completely to the point where they would be unsafe to drive on, hence the flat. Front and rear brake pads looked a bit worn too (around 50%). Plastic window has a slash in it that needs to be replaced. No maintenance history to speak of, though seller mentioned that he recently took it to a local indy porsche shop for an oil change (at 3k miles).

All of these threw a few red flags for me. It is highly optioned, however. Interior is in good condition, exterior is well cared for, and seller has both keys, manuals, and all the other little goodies. He just doesn't seem like much of a car person/mechanically inclined, so naturally I'm worried about mechanical gremlins that have gone unchecked (suspension, pads/rotors, water pump, RMS, etc) as there's no way to confirm if it has had the scheduled maintenance. Is it worth biting, or at least scheduling a PPI? Seller said he would be replacing both rear tires this week and invited me out again to look this weekend.

How helpful would a PPI be in this situation, given that I have no idea of past maintenance? Is there anything else in particular that you would suggest I ask if I decide to go back to test drive it? Anything that jumps out at you immediately as a problem area on these cars that should be checked that I might have missed?

A couple pictures for your enjoyment:

[pothole]

I don't know what the going rate is for 2.5s in the US, but this car needs to be spectacularly cheap to be of interest. There are plenty of normal, straight examples out there to choose from.

[2003S]

1) run, don't walk away
2) the vinyl wrap is most likely covering a paint job in bad shape, so add that to the other 'concerns'
3) if you don't run away, do not even consider buying this car without a PPI -- a PPI from an independent shop is ALWAYS useful when buying; a couple hundred dollars could save you thousands ($9K in this case)

[ekam]

The owner is brave for putting that thick rubber mat that's not made to fit the car on the driver's side...

[Topless]

Just keep looking. There are dozens of well cared for Boxsters in SoCal that could be had for the same price.

[EricF]

Originally Posted by ekam

The owner is brave for putting that thick rubber mat that's not made to fit the car on the driver's side...

See now ekam, I would have never noticed that. That was part of my motivation for throwing this post up here; it never hurts to have a few trained eyes/minds in my corner. I was flabbergasted when he rolled the car out of the garage on a flat tire. To be fair, he was definitely embarrassed about it, but I just don't like the idea of taking a gamble on a car who's owner isn't even maintaining the obvious/visual components.

To everyone else (Topless, 2003S, pothole) thanks for the quick and straightforward responses. This is basically where my head was, so it's nice to get the confirmation and support from others with more knowledge than myself. You're definitely right about the availability here in SoCal. I'm not on any sort of time crunch and will keep perusing craigslist for the next few weeks (anyone know if there are any forum members who might have insider info on any cars for sale in the LA area that might not be found in the online classifieds?).

The hunt continues! Cheers guys.

[schiller2300]

I live in Arkansas, and was able to find a 2000 S that was a lot like the one you are looking at with Teutonic, upgraded sound system, and heated seats with 67,000 miles for 15k. I would think that California would have a lot better solection than Arkansas. The fact that the car was wrapped would send me away, the poor tire condition also tells you a lot, it seems that this owner and probably the owner before him did not have the money too invest in maintaining the car if he was not willing to even but good tires on it. It is so typical of that type of Porsche owner to let 1K maintenance things add up to the point where it will take 4 to 5K to get a car back in shape that they would rather dump it. STEER CLEAR OF THIS ONE!

It's not having what you want, It's wanting what you've got!

[recycledsixtie]

Originally Posted by Topless

Just keep looking. There are dozens of well cared for Boxsters in SoCal that could be had for the same price.

Ask for maint. receipts. Take your time. Are you sure u want tiptronic - try manual. Check out different options - eg. remote key entry( I have manual key only on my 2001). Have patience. Consider joining Porsche Club of America. Get somebody knowledgeable about P cars to go with u. A PPI is a must once u decide on a car. Too many problems, walk away or reduce asking price as a way to fix the problems. Can get really expensive if u get a lemon. If u dont feel comfortable with the seller eg. sleezy - walk away.
Enjoy our search. Your above suggested car sounded like a stinker. You made right decision to walk. Cheers.

[Jager]

Originally Posted by Topless

Just keep looking. There are dozens of well cared for Boxsters in SoCal that could be had for the same price.

Ditto… I recommend AutoTrader and Cars.com. SoCal has many Boxsters, take your time and be picky.

[Ghostrider 310]

Just a thought, if you desire an automatic you should be able to negotiate favorably by pointing out the advance of PDK versus an tiptronic. Having said that there probably are not as many tips out there sitting as five speeds. I wouldn't read too much into a floor mat, especially since the guy isn't clutching, at least he was protecting the floor mats and rugs.

[ekam]

Originally Posted by Ghostrider 310

I wouldn't read too much into a floor mat, especially since the guy isn't clutching, at least he was protecting the floor mats and rugs.

Yup. Totally a non-issue. Even better with one less pedal.

Need "fix" for floor mat making gas pedal stick down. - Pelican Parts Technical BBS

[Ghostrider 310]

Originally Posted by ekam

Yup. Totally a non-issue. Even better with one less pedal.

Need "fix" for floor mat making gas pedal stick down. - Pelican Parts Technical BBS

You can't fix stupid by removing a floor mat, two major crashes in my town in 24 hrs, ten bucks says a cellphone was involved, why? because you can't fix stupid. In forty years do you know how many customers drove after the oil light came on? MANY

you can't fix willfully executed stupidity, it's a major factor in the decline of society

[pothole]

Originally Posted by Ghostrider 310

Just a thought, if you desire an automatic you should be able to negotiate favorably by pointing out the advance of PDK versus an tiptronic. Having said that there probably are not as many tips out there sitting as five speeds. I wouldn't read too much into a floor mat, especially since the guy isn't clutching, at least he was protecting the floor mats and rugs.

PDK is utterly irrelevant. It was a decade away when this 2.5 was built and simply not available.

You may as well say "I want an extra special discount on this because it doesn't have the latest 3.4-litre DFI engine!"

[ekam]

Originally Posted by pothole

PDK is utterly irrelevant. It was a decade away when this 2.5 was built and simply not available.

You may as well say "I want an extra special discount on this because it doesn't have the latest 3.4-litre DFI engine!"

The good ol' get the seller mad by spewing nonsense bargaining technique...

[Ghostrider 310]

Originally Posted by pothole

PDK is utterly irrelevant. It was a decade away when this 2.5 was built and simply not available.

You may as well say "I want an extra special discount on this because it doesn't have the latest 3.4-litre DFI engine!"

It's not irrelevant it's a good tool to knock money off of old technology, of course whatever technique helps the buyer is fair game it's just a suggestion.

PS I know when PDK came out I have one oh and across the pond offering less for a less equipped car happens daily.

[EricF]

Originally Posted by Ghostrider 310

...whatever technique helps the buyer is fair game it's just a suggestion.

Yeah, if I were planning to go after this one I'm fairly certain I could knock the price down a bit. Seller seems like a good guy (not pushy or trying to move the car quickly) but I think he just lacks the knowledge (and admittedly I'm still climbing the learning curve myself). Part of the reason may be that he's only had the car for a year and has only put around 3k miles on it during that time. It's a shame he didn't collect service records from the previous owner, though.

I'm not overly worried that he was trying to pull a fast one on me; he was quick to point out a couple blemishes to the original paint (at least the spots that were noticeable through the vinyl) and noted his lack of mechanical expertise, but I just can't get past the heebie-jeebie feeling of not knowing what's lurking in the internals of the car.

I guess my major question earlier applies to any future cars that I look at: How much of a "safety net" does a PPI provide in scenarios where a car lacks consistent maintenance records? Aside from any noticeable leaks, wear, and general aesthetics, are the guys conducting the PPI able to give me a solid indication of internal problem areas that might fail down the line (water pump, shocks/struts, yadda yadda)? Should I just steer clear of cars and sellers without a full history of maintenance in hand entirely, or is some of this risk offset by scheduling a good PPI? I'm not much of a gambling man, but I do realize that at this price point at age of vehicle I'm always going to be taking my chances.

[recycledsixtie]

[QUOTE=EricF;285897]Yeah, if I were planning to go after this one I'm fairly certain I could knock the price down a bit. Seller seems like a good guy (not pushy or trying to move the car quickly) but I think he just lacks the knowledge (and admittedly I'm still climbing the learning curve myself). Part of the reason may be that he's only had the car for a year and has only put around 3k miles on it during that time. It's a shame he didn't collect service records from the previous owner, though.

If you look enough you will find a great car. A PPI will not catch everything except what they tick on their list and then there is no guarantee. Maint. receipts will show what work has been done and if the seller has looked after the car. Obvious neglect is close to bald tires. Why bother with that kind - move on to the next one. Don't be in a hurry to buy as there are lots out there. Enjoy your search!If u like a car and there are deficiencies just bargain to discount his asking price.

[2003S]

Originally Posted by EricF

I guess my major question earlier applies to any future cars that I look at: How much of a "safety net" does a PPI provide in scenarios where a car lacks consistent maintenance records? Aside from any noticeable leaks, wear, and general aesthetics, are the guys conducting the PPI able to give me a solid indication of internal problem areas that might fail down the line (water pump, shocks/struts, yadda yadda)? Should I just steer clear of cars and sellers without a full history of maintenance in hand entirely, or is some of this risk offset by scheduling a good PPI? I'm not much of a gambling man, but I do realize that at this price point at age of vehicle I'm always going to be taking my chances.

There is definitely risk offset by the PPI; I bought a 2003 without complete maintenance records; the PPI turned up about $2K of work that the seller was kind enough to take care of (super nice guy); some of it from being under-used (CV Boots cracked) and some miscellaneous things that typically need attention on a Boxster of this age (oil filler tube, horn, alignment).

However the inspector noted it was one of the driest 986's he's seen; no oil seeping anywhere, very confident of the engine.

This was a month or so after I had a PPI done on a different car where there was an RMS problem, and the seller wouldn't budge on the price -- I was even willing to meet him half way, since the car was in excellent condition otherwise. To me, that was a pass, it was already priced pretty highly for it's excellent condition, and I wasn't willing to immediately tack on the cost of the RMS job.

My advice; ALWAYS get the PPI, and be prepared to walk -- have some patience, and you'll find one that you'll be satisfied with.

I'm not certain I would have had problems with that other car, but so far (knock wood) the one I bought has had only 1 issue -- I found a bent convertible top push rod that probably was there at the time, but that the inspector missed -- regardless, that was a $50 part, and a few hours of my time to fix. Something I would consider extremely minor.

Had I bought it without the PPI, I would have spent about $2K instead of $50. The PPI is money well spent for good expert information on the car -- what you do with that information is up to you, but the information itself cannot be a bad thing.

Just my $0.02.

[thstone]

Originally Posted by 2003S

There is definitely risk offset by the PPI;

My advice; ALWAYS get the PPI, and be prepared to walk -- have some patience, and you'll find one that you'll be satisfied with.

+1 Excellent advice!

[pothole]

Originally Posted by 2003S

This was a month or so after I had a PPI done on a different car where there was potential IMS/RMS problems, and the seller wouldn't budge on the price of an IMS job -- I

Eh, how does a PPI discover IMS problems?