Not impressed so far, Porsche!
 

I bought my 987S in May. It has about 5300 miles on it.

So far:

1. Stereo was acting weird--it sometimes wouldn't recognize that it had a CD in it when I started the engine. They just replaced the stereo yesterday.

2. Rattle from a loose clip in rear quarter panel. Found and replaced.

3. Rattling windstop--added more felt padding, seems to have fixed it.

4. Not anyone's fault--but I had to replace a tire this week because I got a screw. :(

And now, the car's popping out of second gear on downshifts almost every single time, or I can let the car coast in second and if there's enough drag from the engine, it'll pop out of gear. :mad: It doesn't pop out of gear on upshifts when you're running through the gears.

I don't get it. I don't drive the car any differently than any of my other cars and this happens? I don't know what's up with the tranny. I don't hear any busted teeth on the gears, the best I can say is that it's getting caught up on the million-cone syncros and not actually fully engaging second gear. It doesn't feel any different than it ever had in the past however.

This is seriously killing my happy. Back to the dealership for the fifth time in four months.

Does anyone know if Porsche has a history of this sort of problem?

I can say one thing though--so far Pioneer Porsche's service department has been the best dealership experience I've ever had. I've had plenty of time to get to know them too.

Sorry to hear about your problems. I only have a squeak in the rear suspension that seems to be diminishing with the miles. There's some slight vibration in the front end, but it seems to happen only on certain pavement, so I'm wondering if it's the tires.

I love the car, but my impression is that it's not as well built as the '95 968 that I sold a couple months ago.

I hate to say it, but you're one of the first model guinea pigs. The 987 was reported to be 80% new from the 986. Every first model car I've ever bought went through the same thing causing me to never buy a first model again. They will fix the problems that show up after the 987 is on the road awhile, but you'll probably be in the dealership more than the 2nd generation and up of the 987 model.

Ditto. The biggest difference I see is the "luxury" is missing. The interior especially is very cheap now where the old models were luxury top to bottom. :(

I have about 1500mi on mine and I am now starting to get the windscreen rattle.

It seems like a have a problem with fifth going into fourth. When I downshift it seems like the shifter goes directly into fourth without me putting it there. It just goes a little too easily. I'm not sure if that is the way it is supposed to be or not.

I have the same stereo problem. I thought it might be the cd's I am burning, but if I pull the cd out and put it back in it seems to recognize it.

I am still very happy with the car, but I also expect a little more from such an expensive car.

Re: the transmission. It is an all new unit for the 987, sourced from Japan. So, history on the 986 trans will not be useful to you I think.

That said, the trans and clutch on the 986 seemed to be troublefree for the most part.

It was the dreaded RMS that many complain about.

I do agree with the comments on how the interior was redone on the 987, I did not like the direction they took on that. Of course, that is subjective.

The car popping out of second sounds to me like a bad syncro. This usually happens on cars with tons of miles on them, not a new car.

Please keep us posted on what this turns out to be.

Best of luck.

:cheers:

Porsche will always have these issues. They are tiny operation relative to other
sportscar makes like Honda, BMW, etc.
The limited numbers of cars Porsche sells means they'll never have the "hassle free ownership product" that the huge auto makers can produce.

and I think this highlights what a great car the 2004 BoxsterS is.
Most of the gremlins eradicated for a bargain(sort of) price and its only down 22 horses.
I'm sure the 987S will be rock solid car on the reliability/quirk free front in a few years also.and Ditto on the CaymanS.

Look on the bright side...How many people in your life right now(apart from the
P-club and racing) do you know who own a Porsche? Your still the Porsche guy!

I've kept an unofficial tally of compliments since I bought this thing in November of 2004 and I'm passed the 50 mark. :D All for the price of a fully equiped Accord!

I also have a 05 Boxster-picked it up in June-so far about 4,000 km on it. So
far no complaints-the stereo is a little finicky but otherwise no other issues.
Love the car - great dynamics - taking to the track this weekend - we will see
how is holds up there.

Be careful. You may want to ask your dealer about the warranty if you take it to the track. They will void the warranty in many cases if the car is ever tracked so you want to get it in writing if they say they won't void it.

First year cars are subject to higher defect rates than those later in the run.

I noticed this in my 03s and 04s versus the first model years.

Faint consolation I know.

I own a few limited production cars and this is to be expected. Porsche only sells like 7000 Boxsters in the US, this is a very small sample to draw from. I have had my 2005 Boxster for about 3000 miles now, and its been in the shop once for a few issues.

The cost of a car has nothing to do with the bugs you mention, that is due to the limited number of cars they make. The bottom line is that Porsche is a very reliable limited production car and when there are problems the dealers understand how customer retention effects thier long term profitability and will fix the problems.

I dont consider these to be quality problems, they are to be expected in a first year car.

Scott.

I feel your pain, eslai.

I'm currently waiting for a oil relief valve fix for my 987S and have some other minor problems. My passenger side window is making noise when rolling up and down. Sounds like a 10 year old car window. My bi-xenon headlights make a grinding noise when clicking the key to the right (don't remember what posistion that is) without the motor running. Not sure if that's supposed to happen. And finally, I have a broken "sound" button on my stereo. Its funny because I use that button a lot to change the surround settings.

I have had problems with the cd not playing a couple times but it seems to have fixed itself. I remember that it only happened when it was really hot inside the car. I thought it was the overheat protection feature. I guess I was wrong.

Does anyone know if the dealer in Newport Beach give out loaners? I know Hoehn does.

Actually, I think the base 987 interior is pretty nice (a lot better than the 986s), except for the standard wheel. The one in my $22K Mazda Tribute feels better. I'm sorry I didn't upgrade to a sport wheel, but then I wonder why I spent $60K and didn't get a better wheel.

Except for the seats, which were the same as a base 993, the 968 interior was actually kind of cheap-looking. Still, that car just had a "beefier" feel to it than the 987, especially the steering and clutch. While the 987 handles beautifully and is very refined, it may be a little too refined and delicate. To my mind, Porsche used to make the cars the way they wanted and if you didn't like it, you could buy something else. Today, they seem a little more mass market. Of course, I'm not out of the break-in period yet, so I wonder whether I'll still feel the same way above 4200 rpm.

The only issues on my 05 base (June purchase, 5000 miles) are:

Wind deflector rattle, it was initially tight but after about 3,000 miles has developed a minor rattle. Not surprising as I've never had a wind/deflector on a convertible (3) not make some sort of noise. Surprisingly I haven't heard the side-mirror whistling that others have complained about.

Right side squealing noise was experienced during breakin, then goes away (seems to be a common phenomenon)

Stereo, i get the 'Stop' message occasionally, just requires disc reinsertion. Burned CDs frequently don't sound as good or skip more than conventional CDs, but this too isn't specific to Porsche.

I did expect the shifter to be a bit better (5 speed). I was having trouble during break-in getting 'locked' out of first, but not anymore, and I stalled out on a 3-N shift once, when it went into fourth instead. One thing I've noted is that the car does not like sloppy pedal/shifter work, so I've had to pay more attention to driving mechanics than in other cars, but this is probably a good thing.

On the plus side, the car seems to drive better after break-in and keeps improving. Performance overall is superior and fuel economy took a dramatic jump for me after 4500 miles from nocticeably poor to acceptable.

I think the interior is nice, clearly just personal preference but I also think that some of the problems we see on on loaded porsches is similar to the issues that have plagued mercedes recently and cars like the new BMW 7 series: The more gizmos and functions you put in a car, the more reliability issues you're going to create.

I also don't think people factor their driving habits into the car reliability equation. For example, I notice a surprising number of stick drivers who don't let the engine wind down and push in the clutch as soon as they start braking or go clutch-move into first instead of move towards first - clutch. These are just a couple examples of the hundres of little things people do different that result in YMMV.

SD987:

I am interested in learning more about proper clutch use, upshifting and downshifting to maximize performance and minimize clutch and engine wear. Could you start a new thread and discuss this? I'm all ears (or eyes as it were).

Actually, the rub is that to maximize performance, you are likely going to maximize clutch anhd engine wear.

To wit, racing a car will bring an end to these items faster than if you don't race the car.

And, there MAY be a happy medium.

Lets here from the drivers!

:cheers:

Bought my 987S 3 weeks ago. 900 miles and nothing other than a slight vibration in the steering wheel at 80 mph over the weekend, but today nothing on the way to work so I’m hoping it was the road!

Eslai- sorry to hear you have troubles and certainly hope things resolve immediately. It looks like the good news is your dealer is treating you like we want ours to treat us. Good luck. Please keep us apprised.

Wow, this thread's hoppin'! :)

First off, I still love the car and yes, I was prepared for the usual first-year car shenanigans, but transmission failure? Definitely not! Brand new transmission though... we'll see.

Especially since I'm pretty-damned nice to the tranny. I don't engine brake, I rev match all downshifts, I don't slam it into gear, I ease it into gear. I always use the clutch, I don't lug the motor, and I've never "launched" the car.

I have raced cars in the past and I know what it takes to break a transmission. :)

I agree with you bruce that it's probably a bad syncro. If the problem keeps on recurring hopefully they'll redesign it. I haven't heard any other reports of problems though. Hopefully I got a Friday Car or something...

I'm surprised to hear that so many of us have had problems with the stereo--my dealership had not received any of the kind of complaints that I had. I think that if you want to be nice to future 987 owners, you should all go to your dealership and report the problem! I'll let you all know if my replacement CD player still does this. FYI, I had the problem happen with any kind of CD--brand new, burned copy, old and scratched, perfectly clean--whatever. I saw the STOP message at least once a week but there are no stored fault codes in the stereo when they check it out.

My windstop didn't start rattling until about 4000 miles. The felt additions seem to have stopped the noise. :)

Oh, and I think the 987 interior is a pretty impressive step up from the past year models, I'm surprised to hear that that's not a universal opinion. There's a little goofiness here and there, but part of what made me not want to buy a 986 was the dated and less-than-expensive looking interior.

I definitely prefer the 996/986 interior. The steering wheel (with silver crest) is great design. Although on some 996/986 models the car could have greatly benefited from nicer materials and colors.
Even a great desing will be ruined by poor interior materials like cheap plastick and fake aluminum/chrome.
The interior of my car was what pushed me over the bump and its probably the first thing people compliment.

Different strokes for different folks I guess. :)

Seems like we all share the same:

Whistling side mirror
Rattling Windstop
Stereo problem

446 miles to go on the break-in. My trip to Santa Fe should take care of that!

I've now clocked 3,500 miles on my 987... It's been nothing but sheer delight... only had the "stop" radio message appear once... have added h&r lowering springs, BMC air filter... Valentine One detector... I had no complaints with my 986 interior, but I do find the new interior styling a bit more upscale...

OK guys and gals her comes the big rant!

I have to agree with DeliriousGA regarding the 987 interior. I always thought that the 986 was supposed to be an homage to the speedsters of the past, namely the 550.

The little roadster that literally saved Porsche has been "refined" and homogenized into a car that for me has lost a little of its' edge. In the same way that Porsche decided to enter the SUV arena just because they couldn't give that market segment to BMW and the like, they have tried to make the Boxster more palatable to the everyman and everywoman to garner a few more sales (like they need it!). I will always appreciate a Porsche as a great driver's car, but IMHO the dash now looks like it belongs in a 1965 Ford Fairlane. It's just straight and flat with the exception of that ridiculous timer, that strikes me as more of an affectation than an integral part of a true sports car. I agree that the materials, fit and finish have improved, but the styling is dull! Just compare each panel of the interior to see what emotion it illicits from you. I really think the 986 evokes the feeling of a true roadster. These cars were not meant to be "plush", hell maybe not even comfortable!
Please don't think for one minute that I hate the 987, I'm just a tad disappointed in the direction Porsche has taken. I fell in love with the Boxster the first time I got behind the wheel and now I look at the details on the 987 (the headlights, the wheels, the taillights, the side intakes) and it leaves me kinda underwhelmed. Even though all the body panels are new, it stills looks like a 986.... but just not better. For example, I'm looking at the side intakes on the Caymen and they have a subtle curve that adds panache and flows into the lines of the rear quarter panel. The 987 vents look like they were designed with a straigtedge and just tacked on so they would be different from the "old" model. It feels like the bean counters are in control of the company and the next new model after the Caymen will be a reincarnation of the 924.

Don't flame me too hard guys, I didn't realize how I really felt about the direction Porsche was taking until I started writing this. I could go on for pages, but you get the idea. I'm going to go take my medicine now and I'll feel better in the morning. Long live the 986.

Mark, don't completely agree, but love the passion! Unfortunately, for a company to be viable and survive todays market they have to appeal to the largest group possible. IMHO, I think Porsche has been able to keep the Porsche panache, yet ensure its future success with its current models. Such luxury cars like Lambo, Ferrari and Aston Martin are way out my reach. Their "boutique" hand built cars will never be in my reach. Porsche has introduced a model that I have been able to afford. It will be a while before I can purchase a 911. I do agree that Porsche has added a little more "water to the scotch", but now we can all have a taste yet we still attain that exclusivity that we all want.

Dig the passion though brother. We are all Porsche-files in our own way.

All of this is totally subjective, but there are many things that I like about the 987.

Looks wise however, they have taken some backsteps in my opinion.

Personally, I hate the new standard wheels and I don't like the side vents either.

I really HATE no having a dipstick. Soon, they will put a lock on the damn oil pan so that we can wrench anything!

But on balance, the changes to the driveline seem solid and well thought out.

I am partial to the 03 Box S as pretty much where the 986 was "completed" in my mind.

:cheers:

I'd like to see that info too. I think I know how to down-shift to help slow the car without over revving, but I don't know what I don't know.

Update: I took the car to the dealership today. The tech tells me that he thinks that the operating sleeve just isn't holding.

FYI, he's talking about the ring gear that slides back and forth between two gears to actually engage either one of them. On the porsche there's an operating sleeve between first and second that slides back and forth. It isn't holding on second is what he thinks.

But, no parts are available for the 987 tranny yet. I need a new tranny.

Here's the kicker though. They pulled some codes from my car. In the 986 there were apparently two levels of warnings. One if you were just bouncing off the rev limiter and another level if you over-revved the engine by downshifting wrong.

My service advisor told me that the latter of those two codes puts you somewhat at the mercy of Porsche, as far as warranty claims go.

The 987 has FIVE levels of these flags (i have no idea what the real terminology is) and my service advisor doesn't know how to read them. He says that i have warnings in the first three ranges.

Well, I know I've never over-revved the engine. I've bounced off the rev-limiter in first, naturally--it's a really short gear, but I've never over-revved. The closest I've come to that are a couple of times when i shifted into the wrong gear and started to let out the clutch, heard the motor leap but put the clutch back in before it ever got near redline.

I'll be very disappointed if they decide not to warrant this transmission based on any of these codes. My service advisor is going to call his rep tomorrow and find out what's up. I've had plenty of other cars where I've treated the transmission either the same or worse (back in my learner's permit days :o ) and I've never had any problems. I really hope they don't end up completely eroding my belief in Porsche durability and warranty coverage. My Mitsubishi drivetrain has proven more reliable than my Porsche--that's plain embarrassing!

I really don't see how they would reasonably deny me though. I have a lot of faith that it won't come to that. :)

And the 987 interior does bring the car more inline with what other luxury brands are doing with their interiors. I don't see how this could diminish the driving experience of the car at all, or be a bad thing for sales and overall driver satisfaction. All subjective of course, and I do also appreciate the passion that most of you have. We all have our own biases on all of this though and honestly, i would expect nothing less than for most of us to prefer what we have. :)

Final update:

I got the car back today with a new transmission. My service rep showed me the warning counts and there were a lot of times that I hit the rev limiter, which is no big deal, but then as far as over revs go, they had 225 hits in the "level two" warning and three hits in the "level three" area. i forget how high level two is, but level three was "up to 7900 RPMS". So apparently I'd spent three engine rev cycles in dangerously-high RPM ranges and a good 225 cycles in the rather-high range.

There's also levels four five and six, which I didn't register on.

Now, to me, those don't seem like outrageous revs or counts, nor do they seem hard to avoid, as the only time I ever did a "whoopsie" shift was when i was still figuring out the car and obviously I caught it pretty fast.

However, I was warned that they could void the engine adn drivetrain warranty if they saw that sort of activity increase.

A little annoying, and I'm not certain that I can see how that'd hold up in court, but since I dont' plan on having to worry about it, no problem. I'll fight that battle IF I have to.

I'm left in a certain conundrum though. I don't think I beat on the car, Porsche thinks I've been beating on the car. I think the car had/has a glass tranny, Porsche doesn't. With that weakened trust that I now have in the car, will I still be able to enjoy it as I have?

We'll see.

So Basically you can't beat the motor or tranny up like a B16 motor with constant redlining and 3500 RPM launches on a daily basis for 180,000 miles with no problems.


How could the tech guy even say..........."Your driving habits may void the warranty." Well, probably because your not a 60 year old dude in retirement that drives the car 40 miles a week!

They make you feel like you've driven the car in Porsche Cup races for the season. EVEN IF YOU DID, and the motor or tranny broke, they should fix it under warranty.


KRZ :troll: :mad:

:) Basically I came out of there thinking, "Geez, Mitsubishi makes beefier transmissions than Porsche!?"

I've had the car for five thousand miles. It only takes one bad episode to wreck a part, sure, but uh, well... I didn't do anything "bad". The problem got progressively worse too, so if they want to tell me that one episode of high revs caused progressive failure over a part for the next four thousand miles.... I don't know.

Just out of curiousity did the dealer "bill" show a figure on how much the tranny replacement would have been if not covered under warranty? or did you get an indication from talking to anyone?

Hmm.. that would have been interesting... I'll take a look at the paperwork tomorrow but I doubt it has any sort of figure on it.

Porsche North America was a little reluctant to release this tranny to my dealer too since there's so few of them in the US at this time. But sheesh, what else are you going to need a tranny for besides warranty work? :)

The more I thought about it and the more I drove the car today, the more I couldn't see any way that I could have caused the damage.

Ah well.

Okay, I'm looking at the paperwork and yeah, no prices listed, sorry.

Man, sorry to read about this entire episode! I think the best thing youve got going for you is your relationship with the dealer. That service center is either gonig to bail you out or shoot you down. As much as you hate going there, I suggest you check in there every few weeks and ask them to check the engine codes. Ask them for advice. Keep them engaged. You will be 1) educating yourself, 2) educating them, 3) making friends, and 4) due diligence in case you need to defend yourself in court! :(

Are you sure you weren't just showing off for that cute girl in the right seat?!

:p

[QUOTE=Mark986]OK guys and gals her comes the big rant!

I have to agree with DeliriousGA regarding the 987 interior. I always thought that the 986 was supposed to be an homage to the speedsters of the past, namely the 550.

The little roadster that literally saved Porsche has been "refined" and homogenized into a car that for me has lost a little of its' edge. In the same way that Porsche decided to enter the SUV arena just because they couldn't give that market segment to BMW and the like, they have tried to make the Boxster more palatable to the everyman and everywoman to garner a few more sales (like they need it!). I will always appreciate a Porsche as a great driver's car, but IMHO the dash now looks like it belongs in a 1965 Ford Fairlane. It's just straight and flat with the exception of that ridiculous timer, that strikes me as more of an affectation than an integral part of a true sports car. I agree that the materials, fit and finish have improved, but the styling is dull! Just compare each panel of the interior to see what emotion it illicits from you. I really think the 986 evokes the feeling of a true roadster. These cars were not meant to be "plush", hell maybe not even comfortable!
Please don't think for one minute that I hate the 987, I'm just a tad disappointed in the direction Porsche has taken. I fell in love with the Boxster the first time I got behind the wheel and now I look at the details on the 987 (the headlights, the wheels, the taillights, the side intakes) and it leaves me kinda underwhelmed. Even though all the body panels are new, it stills looks like a 986.... but just not better. For example, I'm looking at the side intakes on the Caymen and they have a subtle curve that adds panache and flows into the lines of the rear quarter panel. The 987 vents look like they were designed with a straigtedge and just tacked on so they would be different from the "old" model. It feels like the bean counters are in control of the company and the next new model after the Caymen will be a reincarnation of the 924.

Don't flame me too hard guys, I didn't realize how I really felt about the direction Porsche was taking until I started writing this. I could go on for pages, but you get the idea. I'm going to go take my medicine now and I'll feel better in the morning. Long live the 986.[/QUOTE}



Mark986-- Couldn't agree with you more. The interior of the 986, to me, looks very european and sporty, whereas the 987 looks more standard Japanese-style a la Lexus, which I don't really like. Porsche should have simply upgrade the down-market plastics used in the 986 cockpit and it would have been perfect.

The problem with the 986 interior is that Porsche skimped on the materials. (Apologies to those of you who own one. However, I've seen a lot of people do some nice mods to really upgrade them.) Take a look at the seat bolsters on an older car and see how the foam has shifted. We all know about peeling problems with the armrests. And I just never understood all the black plastic in a car that price.

Three things kept me away from the Boxster for a number of years -- interior, headlights and the fact that it didn't perform any better (and sometimes worse) than my 968. The 987S cures all of those things and that's why I bought one.

I love those 968s. I am still looking for a pristine coupe.

Yeah, i think that's just it. I don't think the interior's shape looked bad, but everything looked and felt too cheap for a $50,000 car. Now in the 987 it looks rather "audi-fied" with is fine by me.

I'm really quite confused by all the people in here that prefer the 986 look over the 987. I thought the changes would all be welcomed and in fact, most of the reviews mention the changes as being a good thing. Once again though, different strokes for different folks. :)

I think people are referring to the curves of the 986 interior, which can be great if they're tastefully done and the materials are of high quality. As far as the 987 interior, I do think that the standard wheel feels cheap and unworthy of a car in this price range. I've said before that my Mazda Tribute wheel feels better. Anyone ordering a 987 would be well-advised to go with the thicker sport wheel.

YEah, I'm a bit bummed about that--I didn't order the sport wheel because I didn't even know it existed--it's listed on the LEATHER options page of the car configurator along with the leather version of the sport wheel, and I didn't bother to look there!

It's not even expensive and had I known about it I would've ordered it. The dealer didn't make mention of it because I went in there with my list all sorted out... OR SO I THOUGHT. :(