Porsche Survival - 986 Forum - The Community for Porsche Boxster & Cayman Owners

fullthrottle52 · 02-19-2012, 04:50 PM

Just thought I would start a conversation to get some thoughts about the viability of Porsche continuing as a car company and especially if the Boxster can survive as a continuing model. I know sales are up in 2011 vs 2012 for world wide sales of all products but here are some facts. According to the new Panaroma magazine, (which some of you may get) Porsche sales for December 2011 took a nose dive with Boxster sales being off 72%!! They only sold 38 cars nation wide for the month. Cayman sales were off 40% with 67 sold. If sales don't rebound soon for these models can they continue to make these models or at very least can dealers continue to inventory and import the boxster. Not to even start a comparison, because I love my boxster, but will the new Subaru BRZ and Scion FR-S going to be Boxster killers. I know they will compete more with the Mazda MX-5 but with a price of around $25,000 and a 200 hp boxer engine they will sell like hotcakes. Who is the NEW Boxster customer? At $75,000 to $90,000 for a 2 seat sports car it most certainly is not me! If I am going to pay that much for a sports car it would be a 911 that is 2 years old. For most of us here I don't think this discussion in a big deal because most seem to own Boxters that are more that 5 years old, but I would hate to see our beloved model go by the wayside. I only know if my business sales were down that much, even for one month, there would be a lot of meetings taking place and a lot of heads rolling.

Just a concerned owner.

ekam · 02-19-2012, 05:08 PM

Subaru BRZ and Scion FR-S are not convertibles.

fivepointnine · 02-19-2012, 05:08 PM

disagree about the subaru/scion competing with the Boxster.....those cars are SLOW, the new Boxster is definitely not slow in any sense of the word, plus the build quality of a Porsche is on a whole different level.

that being said when I get back into the country early next year I am considering trading my '02 S in on a new, low optioned base Boxster or a CPO 987

blue2000s · 02-19-2012, 05:15 PM

I wouldn't mind if the Boxster was discontinued at all. It saves me from watching them continually ruin it. In fact, Porsche can go out of business completely now. Their cars are too heavy and big to be sports cars and the trucks are, well, trucks, so the old Porsche is long gone anyway.

fullthrottle52 · 02-19-2012, 05:32 PM

I certainly did not insinuate that the Subaru BRZ is on the same level with a Boxster. My point is that if you are between 20 and 40 years old and raising a family you probably are not in the market for a new Boxster unless your rich and want a third car garage queen. Does Porsche need to have a $40,000 to $50,000 sports car to compete in the market place. Maybe a 4 cylinder? The younger crowd will go for the BRZ because of cost not because of build quality. They don't care as much about the name PORSCHE. Give Subaru a year and the BRZ will be made as a rag top.

WhipE350 · 02-19-2012, 05:37 PM

I think they'll do OK. They can survive selling 125 in a normal month of Dec in the US I think they'll make it on 38. This car isn't their big money maker anyway. From what dealers were telling me they couldn't get enough of them in, and when they got an 'S' it sold. A lot of people won't wait for a car to be built and if what they want isn't in the showroom they don't buy. The other thing is I'm guessing a good percentage of folks considering a Boxster as their next purchase are now aware the new 981 is coming this early summer. I'm also guessing (or IMO) most folks who buy Boxsters wouldn't be looking at Scion, at least not for the same reason. I would take both a 987 and a Scion FR-S in my garage, but I would never compare them.

WhipE350 · 02-19-2012, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fullthrottle52

...Does Porsche need to have a $40,000 to $50,000 sports car to compete in the market place...

I'm not sure how much it is about competing...but you ask a good question. I'm thinking it is more about brand loyalty and brand name recognition. I started with a 'C' class Benz, loved the brand and moved up to an 'E' class (both were new). I'm thinking I'll own several more Porsches in my life, and maybe a new one someday.

thstone · 02-19-2012, 08:28 PM

First, recent Boxster sales are down because most potiential buyers (like all of us current Boxster owners) already know that the new 981 model is on the way later this year. This is the reason why car mfg's hate spy photos - sales tank as soon as pic's of the new model hit the internet. Also, we're in the middle of the biggest economic recession since the depression. Boxster sales will recover just fine once the new model is out and the economy starts to recover. In the meantime, Porsche will be quite happy selling $100K 991's and Panamera's.

As for the BRZ/FR-S, I don't think that they will sell like hotcakes. First, the 2 seat coupe is a very limited market which is why Toyota and Subaru had to share the development costs to justify building the car in the first place. And second, I can't see the younger generation abandoning their love of the WRX STi and Mitsu EVO any time soon.

jbs986 · 02-19-2012, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue2000s

I wouldn't mind if the Boxster was discontinued at all. It saves me from watching them continually ruin it. In fact, Porsche can go out of business completely now. Their cars are too heavy and big to be sports cars and the trucks are, well, trucks, so the old Porsche is long gone anyway.

+1 and the prices are going up and up.

fatmike · 02-20-2012, 04:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fullthrottle52

Just thought I would start a conversation to get some thoughts about the viability of Porsche continuing as a car company and especially if the Boxster can survive as a continuing model.

The Boxster is irrelevant. It's all about the Cayenne, and probably soon the little SUV (Cajun - whatever they will call it) will be a best seller.

jacabean · 02-20-2012, 05:24 AM

they will sell a lot of the new boxsters that i will guarantee .

ryanwise · 02-20-2012, 05:40 AM

It continues to kill me that if you want a new CaymanS..................nobody has any for sale. 3 dealerships here in the greater Tampa/St. Pete area and theres one to look at. Go on AutoTrader and see what the used car inventory looks like country wide for 2009+ Cars. There just aren't any to buy . Tons of 911's. If Porsche wants to sell cars.....they need to build a few more.
Agreed also.......why would you buy a 2012 BoxsterS when the new redesigned 2013 will be available in a few months? Boxster and Caymans are not going anywhere.

Ghostrider 310 · 02-20-2012, 06:48 AM

I disagree Ryan, Caymans and Boxsters are available but many are seriously over priced because of Porsche's gap in availability, I'll bet they have a lot of pissed off dealers, not that they care a bit. What I believe will be sitting a long while are the base units in each car. As for why buy old versus new model, well speaking for myself I don't like the new look, especially the gaps by the top. Furthermore, all the options and the prices will be higher, I'm truly happy to have grabbed a spyder before the new year.

PS You like Caymans? Check out Hennessey in Atlanta, I'm pretty sure it was him, the has three Cayman R's on the lot but you'll have to dig deep if you want one.

jcb986 · 02-20-2012, 11:50 AM

I agree with blue2000s, Porsche has turn the cars into luxury over sized 2 seater's. They need to get back to basics and produce a fun sorts car. Then again they are putting all the money into taking over VW.

grantsfo · 02-20-2012, 02:02 PM

Porsche has gone from a motorsports company that made sports cars to a street car company who makes expensive factory race cars.

They ceased to make mostly Sports cars a couple years ago. They are more of a luxury sedan and SUV maker now. Sports cars a small part of their product line up. big news for them is release of the new Macan SUV. Not a lighter better mpg more affordable sports car.

Although this has happened across most manufacturers. Seems to me the sports car generations who fueled British, Italian, Japanese and German roadster craze are dying off. New generations don't seem to be intersted in sports cars as much as technology etc.

One thing I will say is Porsche has left us guys who are enthusiasts withmoderate budgets to go after old used Porsches or align to other companies who offer sports cars at reasonable prices. I left the Porsche fold after 35 years last year when I bought my Nissan 370z. Nissan seems very engaged in grassroots motor sports than Porsche is now.

The aftermarket for my 370z is so much better than anything I could do with my Boxster.

WhipE350 · 02-20-2012, 02:31 PM

Just a thought...are the advances in technology so bad? Cars are safer, faster, handle better, likely will be more reliable and maybe last longer. Haven't folks been upset with each new iteration of a model. I understand to sell cars to a larger public they offer lots of comforts and gadgets that I know I as a roadster owner really wouldn't want, but then I likely wouldn't be driving it daily. Doesn't some of the increase in size and advances in performance safety come from the racing cars anyway?

I donno I like the change, it gives us all a historical selection of cars to choose from. I wonder if it is true that Porsche really doesn't care about their sport car lines, they put a huge commitment and risk into such change.

landrovered · 02-20-2012, 02:44 PM

Porsche is evolving and I would not read too much into the slow sales for December because they knew that people would wait to buy the new 991 or at least see it before making a decision.

As for the SUVs and the Panamera, I would be happy to have any of them, I am considering the new Macan instead of my Range Rover. This does not lessen my desire for a GT3 in any way at all. Actually I would be happy to have an all Porsche fleet some day.

Deserion · 02-20-2012, 02:47 PM

The new 991 is no heavier than the outgoing 993 was in 1998. So I'm not exactly seeing where the "getting heavier" part is coming into play. Sure, the car is bigger and more powerful, but weighs about the same as the last of the aircooleds did. That's pretty amazing.

It makes very, very good sense for Porsche to offer the Cayenne and Panamera. By having higher volume vehicles, it allows them to have profits to still continue their business of producing sportscars. To me, if Porsche kept with the 911 and Boxster only, they might not be doing very well at all, if they would still exist.

wvboxst3r · 02-20-2012, 03:34 PM

for the low numbers in Dec. I just spoke to a Porsche dealer today and he said they quit ordering them due to the change.

They already have a waiting list on the new body style. He feels that the new Boxster will be on a six month wait or more once they arrive.

Also a side note he just received word that Lotus is in the early stages of five new modelsfor 2014. A lowerend starter and 4higher end to compete with 911 and fer,lambis, etc..

Ghostrider 310 · 02-20-2012, 04:09 PM

It will be cool to see what lotus comes up with, although I didn't like the Evora front that much. I wonder if Fiat will come to play? Believe it or not when I was in Italy Fiat had some badass cars. One that looked like an NSX with a twin cam turbo and one that looked like the early Boxster and actually came to market before the Boxster. They are already advertising the 500 Abarth which will be an interesting review read.