Autocross and other quick questions!

[Mrmaddbrad]

Haha i know. I had just had this long talk with my boss (who's like 30) about how age discrimination is such a huge problem now lol.

Well, it is what i want, and most people ive been talking to are trying to discourage me from it, mostly just because of their badge on the hood... In the long run, its a car I hope to keep for a long time, and currently I'm just throwing money into a car i know I'm not going to keep.

[Perfectlap]

well it sounds like you are in that very small group of 17 year olds who has knowledge of what it means to drive for real and not just drag racing. But if you're putting a full second on your competition then you need to move to a more competitve class. I've seen SCCA and NASA events where the first 8 positions were seperated by less than half a second -- in different cars. If you're easily beating the guys in your class then you will not improve for long. Autcross is a big time committment given how little seat time you get not to be maximizing every lap to its fullest.

But given your economic situation I would still encourage you to buy a Miata even if to use only for autocross. I think most would agree that there is no better car to maximize you skill set at the lowest cost to race and maintain. And because of the low mod cost and abundance of smaller tire choices you could fine tune the set up to get every tenth of a second out of the car with money left over in your budget. It's also as close to a kart in a road car as you will get at that price. I used to get flack about driving the car because it doesn't have the prestige of a German sports car. But since I didn't have room for more than one car it had to suit both purposes: real world and racing world. I wasn't bothered by the people who would make a joke about the Miata because I knew something straight away about them: they didn't know how to drive. Anyone who has been to the track or autox knows this car is a fixture of grass roots racing. Racing a Porsche is expensive. Tires: $700 -$1,100 a pop. Maintance from accelerated wear: not cheap. Modifications: EXTREMELY expensive for the gains you get.

And while I'm not your financial advisor I get the impression that you don't have a rich benefactor to pay for your big boy toys. If this is the case then you need to understand that sinking a big % of your available income and savings into a car -- AT YOUR AGE -- is the biggest mistake you could make. At 17 you have 18 years of investing time to acrrue a let's say a million dollars before 35. The "time advantage" of money is powerful and is something most young people have no sense of before they no longer have that advantage at their dispoal. The longer you wait the more money you'll have put away for not much more gain. Pretty sad for most in their 30's and 40's. By putting away a little bit of money every week, EARLY ON - in a moderately agressive investment you will have a huge advantage over someone who decides to start putting away money only after they've been hired for a six figure job. The problem is that no matter how many times you tell an under 20 year old that investing now could buy you a GT3 with money to spare later he/she needs that car, rolex or $2K handbag now. Little do they know what that premature indulgence has cost them in the future. Making up that ground even with a high income later is incredibly difficult. Even most professionals can't beat the major indices like the S&P. Time and the ability to be more aggressive is an investing window that is only open for a short time for very young people, a potentially life-changing oppourtunity that most kids are NOT taught about, probably because their teachers have much debt and little savings.

[jsceash]

Not to be another downer but I agree in most respects to what Perfectlap just said. Here is the hidden part of the picture and anyone who has had service on one of these should be quick to agree. Parts and service on the Boxster are expensive. I recently upgraded my clutch. Parts only I did the work $2200 Stage 2 clutch Throw out bearing, flywheel, pressure plate, Main seal, and a couple special tools. That would put three clutches in a Miata. Tires to run on Street and turn laps on autocross cost $1100 a set I burn off at least one set a year.

[Mrmaddbrad]

Yeah, i understand guys, Oh, btw, as i get parts at cost, that clutch job would have costs me just over $500 (just looked it up) and tires are just as expensive for any car, its not like there are specific porsche tires... But still, I understand where everyone is coming from. I just have a lot of thinking to do.

Like you said, it is hard for anyone my age to justify not buying the car that I truely want. And eventhough i know that, like you said, its hard to justify it to myself. But idk... I'll just keep looking into it. I hate that even though everyone's telling me not to, I'll probably still buy it... My dad is actually one of the few people on my side that thinks i should buy it.

I really am still not seeing the big problem with buying it. I've looked into prices of parts, prices of tires, competiveness, affordability of insurance, and every little price like that. I know how miatas are to drive, as I have driven an NB quiet a few times. But everyone seems to autocross a miata, especially where i live, and idk, i just want to be different. Bleh, sounding more and more like a 17 year old lol

[jsceash]

Actually there are speciffic Porsche tires. The Miata S uses 4, 205-40R-17 or largest recomended size a 215-35R-18. Boxster auto corss size is 225-45ZR-17 or 225-40ZR-18 front and 255-40ZR-17, or 265-35ZR-18 rears. There is a big price differecne even if your not buying porsche specified tires. That's even more if you buy the Porsche speciffic tires. Dualmass race spec flywheel at cost $1100. LWSM Flywheel at cost $750. Clutch and pressure plate combos at cost start at $450 (pretty much stock) and go up to $1500. If you buy aftermarket /remanufactured you might be able to get these parts for $500. Problem being they won't hold up on track. The thing is you wanted good knowledgeable advice & 7 or 8 knowledgable people gave you good advice, it just was what you wanted to here. The difference between what you wanted to hear and what you heard was 20 to 40 years of experience.

[Mrmaddbrad]

No no dont get me wrong, i love the advice. You've answered almost all of my questions and more. But when it comes to tires, without even a shop discount, i can get Dunlop Z1 star specs, (One of the best performance street tires, actually the best for wet/cold surfaces), for less than $800. Which yes, is about $300 more than what i just payed for tires on my Bimmer. But still, its not THAT bad, especially since i plan on running in stock class and theres not a huge amount of expensive modifications i plan on doing.

I still autocross for fun, and am not, by any standards, a national level driver. Therefore i don't need custom valve shocks, or an extremely light exhaust, or even R-compounds.

But as far as money goes, I feel as if you always live in the future, you never get to enjoy the present. Driving to work is boring, if you don't enjoy the ride it takes to get there. Live life as though you're trying to make that drive more exciting... I'm pursuing a passion.

[Perfectlap]

Owning a Miata or similar short wheel base, low HP (relative to others), perfectly balanced car is part of the driver development curve. This is true for recreational racers as well as those with bigger ambitions. You learn a great deal in those sort of cars because the power is not doing the work for you. Put it this way what you learn in one season behind the wheel of a Miata would take you several in a car that can nearly drive itself to a fast lap time. And if everyone has a Miata near you that's one of the few instances where that's a good thing. The more people in similar cars that you have to compete against the better you'll be able to gauge if you are improving as a fast and efficient driver.
By the way, although I could have done so much sooner, I didn't buy a Porsche until I was in my 30's and even then most wealthier and older guys gave me **************** about it. One big fish ($$$$$$) in particular who I worked with invited us out to his country club. His wife had an M3 convertible. The first word of his mouth was "I had to wait X amount of years before I could buy a car like that". The point being that this is a VERY smart guy in how he handles money, a guy who probably made his first million well before 30. I think you'll find that guys who do well and hold onto that wealth put these indulgences off as long as possible. Whereas guys who haven't figured all that out are the first ones in a flashy car. Think about it.