987 vs 986 - Zowie!
 

Hi guys. I was facing nearly $6k in work on my 2002 S from all the usual bugs that seemed to crop up when the car hit 65k - and decided to test drive a 2008 RS60 while my ride was in the service bay.
The 986 is now gone. A pristine RS sits in the driveway (behind the 911C4s). The difference between these two Boxsters is immense! The RS is smoother, faster, quick, sounds better, shifts slicker and plain out handles the 2002. I loved the old S and figured the 987 was just typical Porsche b.s. tweaks. I'm amazed at how much better the 987 actually is.
The RS seems as grippy as our 911 (a 2011 model) and about as quick. I prefer the RS exhaust roar and handling, though I haven't really pushed it to the edge.
I'm absolutely delighted.
Just wanted to share my initial impressions and excitement with other Porsche fans.

Congrats on your purchase!

I went from an 01S to my 08S LE and totally agree with your comments. There's never been a time when I wished I had the 01S back.

You'll have to do the hack where the exhaust stays in sport mode w/o having to be in sport mode.

Enjoy the new ride.

I bit the bullet and did those 65K mile repairs. The next Boxster will be a Boxster Spyder hopefully with a manual gearbox and perhaps someone in the aftermarket will come up with a fixed manual top like the Miata. I see no point in selling the 986S at this point. The buyer would be getting the better end of the deal at these prices. And the 986 although eclipsed in engineering still has styling of the concept car that started the whole movement. Performance can be addressed up to any price point. With rumors of the new Boxster being a turbo 4 banger, I might be taking a hard look at doing some big upgrades in the future because I have no interest in a turbo roadster.

Interesting. I've never liked driving the second generation of a car more than the first that I can think of. They always seem to get heavier and "more refined" which isn't for me. Judging by the comments I've read, including Insite's evaluation, I think the 987 followed the same formula. Great for some, but not for everyone.

You can't upgrade the IMS on the 987, if thats a concern for you. My plan is to get a 02-04 S with upgraded IMS, and then in 6-8 years, get a 09 or newer Boxster without the IMS problem (when they are afordable for me)

A couple of years ago I test drove LE '08 S . The reason being, was that I was trying to decide if I should purchase a new boxster, or go forward and invest the time and money with the body kit project that I had planned for my '02 S . This was my experience . Comparing both vehicles in their stock form, certain that it was, the 987 revealed significant improvements over the 986 with regard to styling, handling and performance, and overall refinement . Here's the kicker, however : in comparison to my vehicle (aka the Dangermobile) which has been heavily modified, and "dialed in" if you will, both vehicles felt like absolute, complete mush !! Now, this may seem like an apples to oranges comparison to some, but the point that I am trying to make is that the beauty of Porsches is that they're evolutionary vehicles . And, unlike other brands that seem to undergo drastic changes on an almost yearly basis, Porsches remain faithful to their original design philosophy and styling. And, regardless of the model year they are not easily opaqued by their successors. Especially, if one chooses to put their own "stamp" on his or her vehicle .

Could it be that you have to drive a 987 more extensively than a typical "test drive" to detect the differences?

I test drove a few 987's when I was looking for my Boxster and didn't notice much difference - thus, the 986 purchase. Seemed to me that the notable difference was between the S and non-S models rather than 986 vs 987. Reading your review now makes me think that maybe I missed something during my short test drives. :confused:

Yes, during my test drive I felt that there were some very discernible differences between the 987 and 986 . Namely, the 987 felt more refined in terms of ride quality, power delivery/engine "feel", and it had a handling aspect that I felt was more inline with what the general motor public would prefer. Personally, I like the raw "dialed in" feel of my 986. But, to be truthful it's for everyone . In any case, in order for me to replicate these attributes with a 987, that would mean "gutting" the suspension, wheels, exhaust, engine mods ect .... That would end up being a six figure boxster in no time .

i like to move to a newer car every couple years. was going to go for an 07 , 08 3.4 but they are still pricey and have the IMS design. so i figure i will wait for the 987 mk2 models to come in price and then pick one up. so until then i will play around with the 986.

At this point in time it makes sense to wait and see what the 2012 Boxster is going to be. 987.2 sales have been suffering big time so Porsche is forced to release something different to increase buyer's interest. Did anyone read about the 7-speed manual on the new 2012 911 (Type 991)?

That being said purchasing a Porsche is an emotional decision not a logical one.

boscoe, will you be posting pics, we would love to see them.

I saw that, now there will be two useless gears :rolleyes:

I blame the auto industry's obsession with fuel economy. But you're right 5-speed is more than enough gears because more gears = more mechanical parts = more likely to break.

They're moving to electric power steering as well. Perhaps this should be a new thread.

i don't get the 7-speed thing either, but am hoping that the electric power steering will be adaptable to earlier cars (at a reasonable price).

Porsche is 1/2 step away from providing one sequential shifting transmission in all it's cars. The clutch pedal can always be there but it can be optional to use. The clutch is electronically controlled in a pdk, they can just give override control of the electronics to the clutch pedal if it's depressed. Then there's no real mechanical connection to the throttle, clutch or steering. It's basically like driving a simulator. Maybe Lotus will still make fun cars in the future.

I hope for Porsche's sake that the electric assist isn't like the systems on any other cars because as much as hydrolic PS sucks from the enjoyment of a good steering rack, the electric systems are twice as bad.

If you've ever driven a Prius, you know what I mean. Extremely disconnected. On GM cars, they think steering effort some how equals feel, which is of course not true and they suck too.

While I love my 987S I can tell you from experience, when a 986 was either behind me or in front on me, on The Tail of the Dragon over the years with fellow 986Forum members & friends (Randall, Derb, Sammy, & NickCats), the performance differences were very-very minimal. Both very capable.

I'd be curious to see this with the new Boxster Spyder. From lap one 1 the manual version was faster than a PDK-equipped CaymanS on a Road&Track test circuit.

320 hp on a lighter more rigid tub may be well beyond "feels a little quicker" territory.

Problem is not every one is the Stig so arguing about faster lap time (Or which car is faster at the ring) is pointless.

Well, depending on the options selected on the Spyder, they are not that much lighter than a 987.1 or a 987.2 While a Spyder would have 40 more HP that my 987.1S (280 HP) that's not that much difference either. Though, I'd love the have the extra 40 ponnies. That's why I also have my beloved 993 Turbo with +400 HP.

Like I said, when I was on the TOD over the years (2007 and 2008) there were 986 and 986S in the group, and they all hung strong against my Boxster, even though I have +40 HP on those cars.

Driver skill is the key.

it's a hp to weight thing.

a 986 puts out 250 hp and weighs 2822 lbs; that's a ratio of 8.86.

a 987 puts out 290 hp but weighs 3130 lbs; that's a ratio of 9.27.

the 987 has more hp/lb, but ...

lose 125 lbs, or gain an additional 10 hp, and the 986 is neck and neck with the 987. do both and you got the 987 beat. sure, the 987 has pasm, psm, pse, pcm, tpms, sc+ and some fancy-looking gills on the side. i think my 2000 S looks better and the only option it has is intermittent wipers. i have no stability control and will occasionally find myself spun-out in the rhubarb on track day. i have no nav and occasionally find myself wondering where the hell i am on a beautiful sunny day with the top down. my car can't tell me when my tires are flat. i don't have any buttons on my steering wheel to turn my stereo on.

I hate the standard nanny PSM on my '06, it steps in much too soon. I turn it off every time I want to drive in a spirited fashion.

Improve your line and inputs (throttle and steering). Learn to heel/toe and tail brake. Run good tires at the proper pressures. Join your local PCA and particpate in a few nivice DE's.

For a daily driver, I love the 987. For a weekend / track toy, I'll take my no option, no nanny 2600 lb 986 beast. Something about a raw, visceral experience that I love.

I guess I phrased that wrong. I'm very familiar with proper high performance/racing technique, I race a Formula Ford. The problem is PSM allows virtually no "rotation" in tight radius corners. Besides, it's just fun to hang the tail out now and then! ( in a safe, unpopulated area, with clear run-off )

Oh yeah, one more "issue" I have, they've done too good a job eliminating trailing-throttle oversteer. This is very safe and stable for the average driver, but with the inherent low-speed push of the Boxster, it doesn't allow you to throttle-steer and tighten your line.

The 2004 Box S had 268 bhp and the 2011 has 310 bhp. Seems to me it makes a big difference passing in the mountains. Haven't tracked the 2011 yet.

Also, the gearbox seems much smoother on the 987. But that may be bcus it only has 4k mi vs 30+k mi on the 986.

The instrumentation on the 987 is more user friendly and more functional.

The PSM is not intrusive on either car.

Love all the gadgets and creature comforts on the 987. $70k for the 2011 vs $63k for the 2004 is well worth it IMVHO.

Ha! I love the disparate economic circles the participants in this forum travel in. I couldn't dream of buying one of these things new.

Stephen, this is where having the Sport Chrono function/option helps. I puts the PSM into a different engagement phase.

987 is more likely to have a warranty. That's a plus.

Yeah, PASM will likely be on the list of options for my next Boxster.

TOTALLY AGREE!!!
In terms of a Sports Car, RAW is where it's at!

Refinement is just a euphamism for 'dumbing down'.

Refinement is for people who don't really want a sports car... ala' non-AMG MB. These poeple want a car which exudes the Panache of a Sports Car without really being one - one easier to live with.

Sports Cars are not easy, they're not good DDs - they're not supposed to be.

I get to hang with the instructors of the Porsche Sport Driving School at Barber Motorsports Park for a week every year for the Indycar Alabama Grand Prix. Privately, they scoff and refer to PSM as 'Please Save Me'!!

Cheers!

most of the things i've done to my car have been designed to 'let the porsche out'. there is a LOT of porsche in these modern cars, but IMO, they cover a lot of it up with extra 'stuff'. i like to let out a little more porsche......

PSM has never been a problem for me. These Dunlop Z1 Star Spec sticks like glue on the street.

A few thoughts:

1. More gears does not equal more likely to break. If you think otherwise, I guess we see alot more porsche gearbox problems since the 6-speed came out in the 911? Wait, we see less? How could that be?

2. Advancements in engine output go far beyond maximum output. Porsche makes engines with broader torque curves now than ever before - overall, a driver will experience more power at far more times than ever before. Look at in-gear acceleration times for good examples

3. Some amount of people, especially Porsche and BMW owners, will always want to go back to a "more visceral" experience. The air-cooled vs. the water-cooled crowd. The manual tranmission vs. PDK/DSG/etc. crowd. The e30 m3 against ANY CAR EVER MADE crowd. Etc.

There's nothing wrong with that. I fall into the middle myself. That being said, i rarely see the "visceral" crowd putting 10-20k miles a year on their "visceral" car of choice.

As each generation of cars come, they often exchange some visceral for some comfort. But, using the boxster or 911 as an example, usually it comes with a substantial increase in performance potential for a small decrease in subjective feel.

I haven't driven the 987 yet, but I look forward to it. However, one last note for those who will test drive one... remember not to confuse "feel" for "my 99 has a worn out motor mounts, cracked suspension bushings, and rock hard worn down summer tires, and I FEEL alot more of the road than this 987".

bingo! there's only so visceral a road car can be; at some point, it becomes a toy & only a toy.

Agreed. I've decided the '65 Mustang I'm restoring is a bit too much, with no power anything, or A/C, which means I'll never get my wife to go anywhere in it.

haha my wife has a VERY high tolerance for my......preferences. my car has no AC, no radio, racing seats, race suspension, no sound deadening, and a cat-less race exhaust. she STILL goes for rides. i will say, though, the cat bypass pipes ALMOST put her over the edge. they are very, very loud.

That's impressive. I'm just happy my wife "lets" me have my toys.

My wife's tolerance depends upon whether or not she's driving.

If she's driving, she's far more likely to enjoy the sometimes stiff ride, the power, any sound, etc.

For example (a poor example, but an example): I let her drive it for the first time when she got in the boxster after I removed the intake snorkel. Top down.

She commented on how much she enjoyed the growl/purr behind her ear when she gave it some throttle around 2800 rpms.

Now she gets a kick out of it every time, rather than if I had driven the first time she likely would've said "So what, it's just more noise."

Funny how that psychology works out, eh?

I got a kick out of that, Joe, because there's no denying the truth of how that could have worked out differently.