Repairs are getting tedious after only one month of ownership.

[mikstew]

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

What you have to keep in mind is that this is a sports car.
Not an econo box. The parts are made lighter and more fragile and cost more to produce. There's no getting around any of this. Either buy new or newish or suck it up. Either way you end up paying. The only difference is do you want to plunk down a bunch of cash all at once for used or have a never ending monthly payment.

But at the end of the day withing the sports car realm, these are very durable rare birds.

As much as I would like to believe what you are saying, sadly it just isn't true. I have had many a discussion about German car manufacturers unscrupulous ways of making profits and they all seem to tread the same thin line between purposely making crap/junk parts designed to fail, and poor, but not deliberately poor, design.

To say that the parts that go into german cars are of higher quality or perform better thus making a better car is for the most part completely untrue. In fact, you'll often find much better parts in Japanese autos, especially in electronics. However I will concede that the parts on German cars are usually designed in a unique fashion, thus making their construction more expensive, but I really do question how much more expensive. I believe there is a lot of BS going on here about exclusivity - i.e. Porsche knows that if they make up funky shaped parts, odd fasteners, and unique designs, they will be difficult for after market companies to replicate and/or install, and thus all parts and service revenue go directly to Porsche (Most glaring example of this was the advent of the "service interval"). On top of this, sometimes I believe that certain parts have a prescribed lifespan. In other words, Porsche makes them knowing they will break, and thus they are a big revenue stream. This is CERTAINLY the business model for BMW/Mercedes. Possibly also for Porsche. The AOS is a good example -- it does not take 5 revisions to make one that doesn't fail in 20,000 km. A simple fix would have been to use better materials from the outset. Instead, they used crap knowing that this would be a common service on the car and hence reap the profits from repairs.

So the OP can feel better in knowing that the majority of the people on these forums have suffered the consequences of ownership of a german luxury auto. The only way you can avoid such costs is to buy the car new and use the warranty for what its for. However this is not a perfect fix since the downside is that your cars parts are still going to break and you will waste coutless hours at the dealership NOT enjoying your 100,000$ car. Trust me, I know. Alas, these are just the prices we must pay to enjoy luxury. I know I could have an Acura and be problem free (or much more so), but it just doesn't have the same feel and thrill as the Porsche or BMW. 'Tis a tough world... I wish someone would just make a luxury car that isn't made from cheap crap parts. I've heard that old Bentleys are good for this, but I think I'll need to work on my Law career a little longer before I can get one of those

[clickman]

Cars break down and have to have parts replaced. Some parts are poorly designed. There's a couple of revelations. At the end of the day it's what you get out of it. Cost / benefit. If that balance doesn't work for you, buy something else. Simple.

To the OP, having just finished the jobs myself, I concur with the earlier post to combine some jobs if you have to do your water pump. I did the front engine mount and low temp thermostat and fuel filter, and it sure opened the area up and made the jobs a lot easier.

PS, if you don't know what coolant you have and have to replace it, and want to avoid the possibility of gelling, either buy a lift for your garage or have the pros do the flushing of the old coolant. Ask me how many times I had to put my car up on jackstands...

[san rensho]

Originally Posted by clickman

Cars break down and have to have parts replaced. Some parts are poorly designed. There's a couple of revelations. At the end of the day it's what you get out of it. Cost / benefit. If that balance doesn't work for you, buy something else. Simple.

To the OP, having just finished the jobs myself, I concur with the earlier post to combine some jobs if you have to do your water pump. I did the front engine mount and low temp thermostat and fuel filter, and it sure opened the area up and made the jobs a lot easier.

PS, if you don't know what coolant you have and have to replace it, and want to avoid the possibility of gelling, either buy a lift for your garage or have the pros do the flushing of the old coolant. Ask me how many times I had to put my car up on jackstands...

Yeah, I just read Pedros write up on the waterpump amd he says loosening the motor mount and lowering the engine makes the job much easier, so I'm going to check the mount and if it isn't perfectly pristine, I'll replace it. I'm a firm believer in if it aint't broke, don't fix it, but I'm friends with the porsche dealer parts guy and he gives me wholesale/mechanics prices on OEM Porsche parts, so I can't really go wrong.

[Mark_T]

I heard that in heaven they have French cooking, German cars, and English humor.

In hell they have English cooking, French cars and German humor.

[Perfectlap]

Originally Posted by Mark_T

I heard that in heaven they have French cooking, German cars, and English humor.

In hell they have English cooking, French cars and German humor.

I saw that on a the back of an Italian menu in South Beach.

In heaven:

The cooks are Italian
The police are British
The lovers are French
The mechanics are German
and it's all organized by the Swiss

In Hell

The cooks are British
The mechanics are French
The lovers are Swiss
The police are German
and its all organzied by the Italians!

[Perfectlap]

I'm not sure I said the parts were of higher quality. But the idea that Porsche is going to simply use off the shelf parts across the board may have been true in the early 90's when they were using auto parts store shocks in the 911 (although that's also when they were on the brink of bankruptcy) but not so much since the rebirth.
I also have to say that for the most part the new Porsches have been on par on reliablity with any Japanese car I've ever owned. Actually my experience prior to my recent major 10 year overhaul was of a single $300 unexpected repair after nearly 70K miles. The newer Porsches are even better. But when it's time for major maintenance you need specialized labor (most import mechanics I've visited flatly refused to touch my car) with expensive parts. What are you going to do? I guess some people arent' getting excited about driving an RX8 or Jetta.

Originally Posted by mikstew

As much as I would like to believe what you are saying, sadly it just isn't true. I have had many a discussion about German car manufacturers unscrupulous ways of making profits and they all seem to tread the same thin line between purposely making crap/junk parts designed to fail, and poor, but not deliberately poor, design.

To say that the parts that go into german cars are of higher quality or perform better thus making a better car is for the most part completely untrue. In fact, you'll often find much better parts in Japanese autos, especially in electronics. However I will concede that the parts on German cars are usually designed in a unique fashion, thus making their construction more expensive, but I really do question how much more expensive. I believe there is a lot of BS going on here about exclusivity - i.e. Porsche knows that if they make up funky shaped parts, odd fasteners, and unique designs, they will be difficult for after market companies to replicate and/or install, and thus all parts and service revenue go directly to Porsche (Most glaring example of this was the advent of the "service interval"). On top of this, sometimes I believe that certain parts have a prescribed lifespan. In other words, Porsche makes them knowing they will break, and thus they are a big revenue stream. This is CERTAINLY the business model for BMW/Mercedes. Possibly also for Porsche. The AOS is a good example -- it does not take 5 revisions to make one that doesn't fail in 20,000 km. A simple fix would have been to use better materials from the outset. Instead, they used crap knowing that this would be a common service on the car and hence reap the profits from repairs.

So the OP can feel better in knowing that the majority of the people on these forums have suffered the consequences of ownership of a german luxury auto. The only way you can avoid such costs is to buy the car new and use the warranty for what its for. However this is not a perfect fix since the downside is that your cars parts are still going to break and you will waste coutless hours at the dealership NOT enjoying your 100,000$ car. Trust me, I know. Alas, these are just the prices we must pay to enjoy luxury. I know I could have an Acura and be problem free (or much more so), but it just doesn't have the same feel and thrill as the Porsche or BMW. 'Tis a tough world... I wish someone would just make a luxury car that isn't made from cheap crap parts. I've heard that old Bentleys are good for this, but I think I'll need to work on my Law career a little longer before I can get one of those