rear window is torn :(

[Overdrive]

Hey all, been away for a time and wanted to throw an update on here. So here's the situation I'm looking at right now:

My plan is to let a co-worker of mine (completely by chance an upholsterer by trade) take a stab at stitching in a new window. I'm thinking I'll unbolt the frame from the car if he decides he wants to try and do it without full top removal. I'll be buying some 40 gauge, or thicker if I can find it, vinyl and let him go to work. He's quite the perfectionist and very anal retentive about things, especially when it comes to cars, which I'll consider a good thing in this case.

Now, the way I see it, if he gives this a shot and it does not go well, then I'll be getting a new acoustic top with glass, so since this is the route I was palnning on taking anyways, I figure what have I got to lose by letting him potentially save me about $1500 until I can comfortably afford a glassed top?

[wawa]

The difference in price between GAHH top and autotopdirect has been told in this post but no one has comment on why there is that big of a difference between them? Any comments or user story? They both seem to have good quality material and good warranty.

thanks
wawa

[Overdrive]

I'm not sure that there's a difference other than the fact that you're buying directly from the supplier...? Someone else with more knowledge would have to enlighten us.

I know that the exact same GAHH top was quoted to me as being $1080 from the shop I went to, with about $700-800 in labor, so I'd be looking at a good $1800 to buy from them and have them install it.

Now on GAHH's site, the same top is under $1000 before shipping, and on autotopsdirect, altogether with shipping it comes out to about $630. I did notice that there's a 5 year warranty for the bonding on the window, so I don't know if that's the difference versus the supposed lifetime warranty on the top from GAHH, but I honestly can't see a difference between the two and their design, so I really think it is the same part.

[jdiba]

Overdrive letting your insurance pay for replacing your plastic window with another
one is a definite option. I had the same thing happen to me and the installer billed
my insurance company no problem. Think of it like this: What if it were your
winshield ? Its really no different.

[Overdrive]

jdiba, I did kind of abandon the idea of having the insurance cover it, thanks for the reminder. I guess it wouldn't hurt to see if they will, though I wonder if they would simply go with replacing the top over replacing the plastic. The gent at the shop I went to said it'd cost the same in labor to have them restitch the window as it would to get another top, so I might as well replace the top, and I was inclined to agree if that's the case. I'll give a call on Monday to my insurance and see what they say.

[jdiba]

just tell them its cracked along one side

[tawheed]

Originally Posted by jdiba

Overdrive letting your insurance pay for replacing your plastic window with another
one is a definite option. I had the same thing happen to me and the installer billed
my insurance company no problem. Think of it like this: What if it were your
winshield ? Its really no different.

Would insurance cover a wear item?

[Overdrive]

Hey, folks, didn't want to put up an update until things were done, but jdiba, you were right. I called the insurance company and explained what happened, and they did indeed replace it. Initially I was being told that if it was wear and tear then it would not be covered. I guess it kind of falls into a limbo area, because the back window, vinyl or not, should fall under glass repair, and yet it doesn't because the top as a whole, being canvas, is considered upholstery. I really couldn't tell you how it got to the point that it did...I got tossed around between three or four different people in the span of about an hour, finally talked to someone who knew what needed to be done, and it was covered for my deductible.

I did explain to them that it literally was fine one day and then torn the next time I saw it, and there wasn't any sort of indication telling me it was about to happen.

I went to a local shop that is certified by my insurance to make body repairs. Since they don't do upholstery work, they farmed the work out to a local auto upholstery shop who purchased a Robbins glass window top, for which I paid the cost difference between it and a vinyl windowed Robbins replacement. Gladly, totally worth it.

I was told to expect the job to take about a week , but I got a call the very next day saying it was done, and picked it up today during lunch. I guess they wanted to give themselves some wiggle room.

Looks great, fits great, still haven't cycled it a few times yet to be sure all's well, but very happy with the turnout. Highway noise is much less, and now I don't have to worry about my back window getting foggy or moisture covered inside. The view out the back really isn't that diminished by the glass size, I am just happy to be able to see out the back clearly when the top is up.

Looks like I owe you a beer, jdiba.

[derekcohen]

Hi Overdrive

This was a very timely thread for me as I have had the same issues to face. I have what looks like a puncture in the vinyl on my 2001 S, and the dilemma was whether to (a) have a motor trimmer replace the window, (b) have the insurance company pay for it (if the cost was more than the excess), and (c) whether to go for the larger vinyl or smaller glass, both with pros and cons.

This is what I have - with some tape glue remnants still visible ...





A few other pictures for reference:





I was referred to a specialist motor trimmer by my Porsche mechanic. The quote (parts and labor) for a vinyl replacement was $850 (this is Perth, Australia!) and for a Robbins glass window (full roof) replacement was $2900.

I contacted my insurance guy with some trepidation, although I have been with them for a claim-free 12 years (11 1/2 with a 1957 356a, and just 8 months with this 986), and mentioned only the Robbins glass quote Well the insurance guy (actually it was a gal) did not turn a hair and said, "that is very reasonable". So I went back to the installer to give my go ahead (pending final approval by the insurance company once paperwork is completed and the above photos looked at).

Reassure me that the Robbins roof plus glass is a good replacement please - having a little pre-purchase anxiety!

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Mark_T]

As far as quality goes, there is nothing wrong with Robbins. It seems to be very popular with the pro shops. But, if insurance is paying for it anyway, why not go with the high-end GAAH?

As to glass vs. plastic, there is a lot of discussion on that, mainly revolving around reduced engine bay access. I personally don't like the glass because of the much smaller size and ugly orange defroster lines. It really seems to be personal preference, so go with what you like best.

[Overdrive]

Hey, derekcohen, glad this was helpful to you. I can't see any of your images right now (blocked at work), but I'll be sure to check them later. The Robbins top to me is excellent, of course I'm basing that on the condition and experience with the original top that was on the car. The top hadn't been very well cared for prior to my ownership, and yet it was still pretty decent for being nearly 15 years old. But it didn't repel water, the window was cloudy and water actually seemed to "cling" to it, as well as collect moisture super easy on the inside, and driving anything over 70 started to sound like it does in my helmet when I ride my bike.

So getting a fresh top was almost like night and day after dealing with that as the norm. I will say that having a smaller glass to look through takes some getting used to, but clearly (no pun intended ) is a non-issue when the top's down. I can still see through it just fine to what's directly behind me, probably up to a good 100 feet back, and I just appreciate being able to see through the window to what's behind me instead of feeling like I'm looking through wax paper trying to make out what the gray cube with headlights is doing behind me. The only thing I've found myself doing is occasionally ducking my head slightly to see a bit farther back down the road, but more often I simply glance at one of my side mirrors to see that far back. Again, a complete non-issue when the top is down.

Speaking of top down, the top folds fine, and the glass lays down well before any remaining part of the top gets folded on to it, so no worries about de-bonding or pressure on the glass there. But one bit of warning I will give you is about this tension strap that Robbins put on the top to keep tension on the canvas as it unfolds to keep the seam from falling out of the seal area (I'll take some pics to show you what I mean). The day I brought it home, I was putting the top up and this strap on the driver's side (held in by a plastic fastener on a plastic piece of the top's frame), came loose as one of the teeth that held this fastener (remember, plastic) failed and shot the fastener right past my head and into the passenger seat. I had saucer eyes for a few seconds . But thankfully the top was fully unfolded when it happened, so I simply locked it down and went right back the next day to the shop. That plastic piece is replaceable apparently, but the guys at the upholstery shop simply used some serious super glue and made that sucker solid, and I'm content with that fix for now. That strap gets a lot of tension, so I'd recommend asking whatever shop does the job for you to throw a bit of super glue onto this fastener (but not on the strap) so that this doesn't happen to you. My passenger side one has been fine, and I've cycled the top several times since then, keeping an eye on everything, with no issues. The motors may work a bit harder at first, but the top will loosen a bit over time and you'll be good. And I'm sure the straps will stretch over time and not face so much tension, but if anything plastic does break, at least you know you can simply replace those parts and toss the old ones, just make sure that glue doesn't get on the strap so you don't lose those.

That's not meant to worry you, just to make you aware. You may never even face that problem, which would be great.

Let's see, as far as rain goes, it's been rained on a few times already and it was a bit strange at first to see the water bead up on the top instead of soaking it, and I was smiling at watching the water actually flow off the glass as I drove down the highway, something the vinyl didn't let happen at all. I'm sure this is a treatment that will fade over time, but I plan on taking good care of this top and treating it with whatever's needed to maintain that. The car will be covered often, but for the times that it will be exposed to the elements I don't want it to degrade to where the original top was. And not to debunk things that Mark_T made a point of, but honestly, I have to search for the defroster lines to really see them, so I don't see them as an aesthetic problem. On that note, I'm quite happy to have a working defroster. One thing you may want to do is put the top in service position and see how they ran the defroster wire. If you can find some points to tie it down to I'd recommend you do that, just enough to keep it from wandering to the wrong places and getting pinched/broken.

I never did put my top in service position with the vinyl, as it had cracked before that, and I didn't want to make the tear worse. My first experience with the service position was after the Robbins top. I can't say access is as diminished as I thought it would be. Once you disconnect the tension cables you can raise the back of the top to where the glass is horizontal, and it's pretty decently out of the way. There's a strap that Robbins provides to ensure the top stays up, but I didn't need to use it.The clamshell felt like it was in my way more than the glass, honestly. I guess I'll never know unless I poke my head into the engine bay of a vinyl-windowed Boxster. I reached my air filter and MAF with no more difficulty than what I imagine is the norm. If you're going to be in the engine bay for a long while, you could always just unbolt the whole convertible frame from the car.

Highway noise is seriously diminshed! It's much quieter, and when it finally does get loud, the noise is much lower and less annoying, and you'll likely find yourself at a much higher speed...but I don't have to yell my conversations on the highway as much now. The glass, being a bit heavier than the vinyl, does vibrate at speed as air goes over the car, but it's nothing violent, just a bit noticeable because I notice things like that. Make sure the shop does a good job of stretching the canvas over the frame so you don't get any sagging between the ribs, as you'll probably get a lot of buffeting noise on the highway.

Ah, important one here: Make sure you get the warranty registration card from the shop and the long strap to hold the top up in service position that I mentioned before, both of which they're required to give you but may not if you don't ask. This way you can ensure that your warranty is intact should anything happen that's covered. Read through the warranty info and send that card in ASAP just in case something does indeed happen.

I think I've taken enough of your time if you've bothered to read this far. Hopefully that's enough reassurance that you're making a good choice. If you end up with a GAHH over a Robbins then it be an even better experience for you, but I don't think you can go wrong. Insurance is willing, so why say no? Good luck, and I'd love to see the results.

[Earn]

Great post Overdrive. I just had a new top with glass installed on Monday. It was covered by my insurance. I had a mobile installer do it and it was completed in three hours. I really like the new top and how the rain runs off like you said. I went with glass so I didn't have to worry about cracking. Like you said it's a personal preference decision.

[derekcohen]

Originally Posted by Mark_T

As far as quality goes, there is nothing wrong with Robbins. It seems to be very popular with the pro shops. But, if insurance is paying for it anyway, why not go with the high-end GAAH?

As to glass vs. plastic, there is a lot of discussion on that, mainly revolving around reduced engine bay access. I personally don't like the glass because of the much smaller size and ugly orange defroster lines. It really seems to be personal preference, so go with what you like best.

Hi Mark

Thanks for the reply.

As I understand, the GAHH has the orange side defroster lines. The Robbins does not.

What is it about the GAHH glass top that you, and others, consider superior to the Robbins top? The material, glass, fit and finish? Or do others think differently about the ranking of these tops? I thought that the Robbins comes with the longer warrantee.

I do not work on the motor of the Boxster. I leave that to my Porsche-trained mechanic (it was a different story with the 356, which I restored myself). So the reduced engine bay access is not a factor that will affect me personally - however is it an issue for a professional mechanic?

I lean toward the glass for peace of mind. We have roof-down driving weather in Perth for a good 9 months of the year, and even winter is not too bad. However the vinyl window is open to acts of vandalism, and it is this that I want to avoid.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[derekcohen]

Hi Overdrive

Many thanks for the long and thoughtful reply.

I suspect that I have been lucky with my roof material and window so far since both are in decent condition, especially for 10 years (I bought the Boxster about 8 months ago). I would be quite happy to retain the roof if the window was not damaged. Out of interest, with regard beading water, did you try one of the waterproofing sprays on your roof? I had very good results from the 303 products.

With regards wind noise with the hood down, I have the plastic inserts in the wind deflectors. They helped a little. With the hood up I have just installed the PNP rear speaker kit, and this makes a huge difference to sound quality from the original sound system. Still, my wife manages gto talk over both.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Overdrive]

Derek,

As far as noise goes, I can't say I miss the original one bit. Also, I'm kind of opposite of many people when it comes to cars and get my audio from the parts that make the car move, which I enjoy much more than any of my favorite bands. The only time I probably wouldn't mind it is once I'm cruising and the car's noises are essentially consistent. Either way, I believe you'll find that when you drive with the top up it'll be much quieter at speed, and if you went with a GAHH even quieter if you get the acoustically superior canvas. Another thing I noticed is that the rain hitting the canvas is quieter than on the old top, too. I never bothered treating the old top with any water repellent, because I planned to change it within the next year, just not that soon. Nature forced my hand about a year ahead of time, unfortunately. It never leaked through the material, so I know it wasn't compromised, just old. But I'll look into those for taking care of this top.

I don't really think your mechanic is going to have much trouble with the glass getting in the way. I haven't had to dig farther into the bay yet, but eventually I will once I start doing any intake modding, so we'll see if I change my tune then. As is, for your typical things it shouldn't be too bad getting to them with the glass top.

I share your reasoning behind the glass, as well. Initially I thought someone had come up and cut my top, so glass was wanted for that reason, as well as simply being easier to maintain and not prone to cracking in the way vinyl would.

[986_inquiry]

Originally Posted by Jake D

There have been some recent threads on having a new piece of vinyl sewn in. I am currently going through the process as mine cracked while I was changing out the air filter. I don't have the $ to spend on a GAHH top and my top is still in good enough shape. I peeled the canvas off in probably 45 mins by myself and its at an upholstery shop. I'm going to go with tinted vinyl also to make it blend in with the rest of my car. Think it's like $100 to have it sewn in. Total cost with everything is going to be around $150

I'm facing the same problem, plastic rear window is detaching from the fabric top.

You had the entire plastic rear window replaced for $150 installed? How did you manage that? I could see finding someone as low as $100 for install from a independent installer, but the plastic was only $50?

[nieuwhzn]

Originally Posted by 986_inquiry

I'm facing the same problem, plastic rear window is detaching from the fabric top.

You had the entire plastic rear window replaced for $150 installed? How did you manage that? I could see finding someone as low as $100 for install from a independent installer, but the plastic was only $50?

Kal Glas 40 Gauge Vinyl Window Material 29" x 68"