Seduced by another........not - 986 Forum - The Community for Porsche Boxster & Cayman Owners

stateofidleness · 03-17-2011, 03:21 PM

well, try taking a drive in the REAL 'poor man's porsche', the 914.
I absolutely LOVE driving the teener and it actually has a lot of the qualities that you described as unappealing about the older 911's.

The road noise, the thinner tires providing great road "feel", reliability?? lmao please..., and the VW jabs make it all that more charming.

I'd love a 993 though

Steve Tinker · 03-17-2011, 03:45 PM

Lil bastard, good to see you still visit your poor cousins website

I can appreciate exactly where you are coming from. I've owned 6 or 7 Alfa Romeo's over the years - all the old 1970's 105 1750 model GTV's. My son owns a "modern" V6 GTV which blows the socks off all of my old 105's, but somewhere Alfa lost the DNA of the older, a light, agile sportscar. Maybe Porsche have done the same over its morphing into the modern day 986 / 996 models.
But here in Oz (and I suspect in the US and Canada) you will pay double the cost of a good Boxster for a half decent 964 and even more for a 993.
Sorry, but a good air cooled car may be an intrinsically better built product inits day, but IMOHO its just not worth the premium to buy into the club. Maybe I just got unlucky with the 3 cars I drove, but.......

Lil bastard · 03-17-2011, 04:28 PM

@Steve Tinker,

I agree but also want to point out that Porsche isn't necessarily totally responsible either.

Economic realities, a risk averse society have all contributed to a dilution of this 'DNA'.

CAFE standards, Safety equipment (like TPMS because some single mother couldn't be bothered to check the tire pressures on her Ford Explorer) and such, have made the cars heavier and heavier despite significant substitution of lightweight plastics and composites.

It is now Government's role to protect us from ourselves, all the while forgetting that every endeavor in Life has risks.

But, I think Porsche too has compromised quality (compared to yesterday) for the sake of profit and dumbed down the cars to appeal to a broader, less specialized or niche market.

Cheers!

blue2000s · 03-17-2011, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lil bastard

But, I think Porsche too has compromised quality (compared to yesterday) for the sake of profit and dumbed down the cars to appeal to a broader, less specialized or niche market.

Because the 964/968/993 almost ran the company into the ground, financially.

iluvboxsters · 03-17-2011, 06:20 PM

Have you noticed that the poor man's Porsche argument is always initiated by those who don't own a Porsche themselves? Just thought I'd throw it out there. I have 2 friends one owns an 04 turbo and the other a 03 C4S and they don't have that opinion at all they actually like my car.

Lil bastard · 03-17-2011, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue2000s

Because the 964/968/993 almost ran the company into the ground, financially.

That's not exclusive to Porsche.

Porsche, Lotus, Alfa, Aston, Maseratti all spent most of their existance hanging just over the abyss.

Collectively, they pulled all sort of pranks to stay alive. Porsche used to swap VIN plates for higher serial #s when the Bankers came to indicate they were producing/selling more units than they actually were. Lotus used to park cars in an adjacent field under tarps telling shareholders and bankers that they had been ordered and already shipped.

But, they concentrated on making the best cars, not on keeping the company alive, they were lean and mean, not fat and bloated.

Putting priorities first is a large part of why they survived 6 decades perilously close to the edge.

Perhaps, staying just a little hungry is a key ingredient not only to making great cars, but also surviving.

Cheers!

blue2000s · 03-17-2011, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lil bastard

That's not exclusive to Porsche.

Porsche, Lotus, Alfa, Aston, Maseratti all spent most of their existance hanging just over the abyss.

Collectively, they pulled all sort of pranks to stay alive. Porsche used to swap VIN plates for higher serial #s when the Bankers came to indicate they were producing/selling more units than they actually were. Lotus used to park cars in an adjacent field under tarps telling shareholders and bankers that they had been ordered and already shipped.

But, they concentrated on making the best cars, not on keeping the company alive, they were lean and mean, not fat and bloated.

Putting priorities first is a large part of why they survived 6 decades perilously close to the edge.

Perhaps, staying just a little hungry is a key ingredient not only to making great cars, but also surviving.

Cheers!

And it turns out it was just delaying the inevitable for them all.

Lil bastard · 03-17-2011, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue2000s

And it turns out it was just delaying the inevitable for them all.

Well, certainly that's one point of view.

Sorry to hj the thread, but each of these companies survived better than half of the automobile's total existance, not too bad. And, surviving is surviving.

But remember, in Porsche's case, it wasn't a sports car which pulled them back from the edge. It was currency manipulation in the mid-90's through '03 and an SUV with a Stuttgart shield on it, not the 986/996, 987/997 or the Cayman.

The vision was lost, for many of the reasons I've stated, but also through the generations' family in-fighting that shifted the goal from making the best performance cars to making the most money. There's nothing wrong with that, but it does mean that the focus shifted, and this is perhaps most visible when compared to past products.

I mean just imagine deliberately sabotaging the best platform in the company (986) in order to prop up and prevent overtaking an existing design (911).

Guessing 'ol Ferdinand's corpse was bouncing off the proverbial rev limiter on this one.

I'm truly not trying to be controversial here, but I guess I view these cos., in their time, as building and defending their reputations, not relying on them as is now often the case.

Porsche certainly isn't alone here, but Porsche is the subject at hand.

Cheers!

Lil bastard · 03-17-2011, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stateofidleness

well, try taking a drive in the REAL 'poor man's porsche', the 914.
I absolutely LOVE driving the teener and it actually has a lot of the qualities that you described as unappealing about the older 911's.

The road noise, the thinner tires providing great road "feel", reliability?? lmao please..., and the VW jabs make it all that more charming.

I'd love a 993 though

The Teenies are great cars, though wrongfully oft maligned... drove several back in the day, would love to own a 914-6 someday!

Cheers!

eightsandaces · 03-18-2011, 02:49 AM

To add on to Lil B's rant, Ferrari as most of you know just made a new 4 door. The realities of car making dictate a certain volume of production. Even if Porsche owned the sports car niche, it's not enough, hence the Cayenne and now Ferrari sedans. Hopefully, we won't be treated to a Lamborghini SUV anytime soon.

As for "back to the thread". After a visit to the doctor, I have determined I should drive a Ferrari as it's always been a bucket list wish, not own one, drive one. I know you can do it in Vegas but it's ludicrous expensive, then again I didn't expect it was going to be a cheap outing.. Old machines are cool, I'd love to have my first Fiat 500 or 850 coupe. I can relate to Lil B liking that 911 all day, I get it completely. The Fiat 124 can't win a race against anyone (well except a classic MG) but it's still an unbelievable blast to drive, really good fun with about 28 mpg.

laphan · 03-18-2011, 06:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eightsandaces

To add on to Lil B's rant, Ferrari as most of you know just made a new 4 door. The realities of car making dictate a certain volume of production. Even if Porsche owned the sports car niche, it's not enough, hence the Cayenne and now Ferrari sedans. Hopefully, we won't be treated to a Lamborghini SUV anytime soon.

As for "back to the thread". After a visit to the doctor, I have determined I should drive a Ferrari as it's always been a bucket list wish, not own one, drive one. I know you can do it in Vegas but it's ludicrous expensive, then again I didn't expect it was going to be a cheap outing.. Old machines are cool, I'd love to have my first Fiat 500 or 850 coupe. I can relate to Lil B liking that 911 all day, I get it completely. The Fiat 124 can't win a race against anyone (well except a classic MG) but it's still an unbelievable blast to drive, really good fun with about 28 mpg.

we had a Lamborghini SUV

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lamborghini_LM002

eightsandaces · 03-18-2011, 06:57 AM

haha nice! if all goes right I'll be driving my 10 year old Mountaineer to the dealer today to pick up an Escape XLT

Lil bastard · 03-18-2011, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by laphan

we had a Lamborghini SUV

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lamborghini_LM002

Yep... Lamborghini LM002

Cheers!

Topless · 03-18-2011, 05:42 PM

If you think about it, every car has a personality. Some are more obvious than others and some will appeal to each driver more than others. I thoroughly appreciate early air pumper Porsches all the way back to 1948. "Visceral" is a term often used t describe them and is pretty accurate. The Boxster I would describe as "balanced joy" and that is the right fun car for me these days. My wife's Lexus is "Almost perfect in every way... and boring to the point of tears". She loves it and it is her second one.

The trick is matching your cars personality to your needs. To each his/her own.